New Witness...TRAYVON was beating Zimmerman up!

[Sallow]

I love it, I said you folks would turn yourselves into pretzels over issues like this.

he has a Latina mother and black relatives to boot Jillian. his appearance is most certainly Hispanic, but NOW, all of a sudden that counts for zip? .....hes 'white'.

this is what comes of identity politics and the very PC Police you and yours foster, live with it. *shrugs* be consistent for a change. seriously.


Or, are you going to tell me hes not 'Hispanic enough'?

Are you sure he is not Jewish?

worse, he could be mormon....

Or a Scientologist!

 

[rightwinger]

I love it, I said you folks would turn yourselves into pretzels over issues like this.

he has a Latina mother and black relatives to boot Jillian. his appearance is most certainly Hispanic, but NOW, all of a sudden that counts for zip? .....hes 'white'.

this is what comes of identity politics and the very PC Police you and yours foster, live with it. *shrugs* be consistent for a change. seriously.


Or, are you going to tell me hes not 'Hispanic enough'?

Are you sure he is not Jewish?

worse, he could be mormon....

With a name like Zimmerman? They are obviously hiding the fact that he is a Jew

 

[Si modo]

Yes the police want to cover it up because??????

They are protecting a fellow officer and rampant racism in the police force.

But Zimmerman is neither a cop or white.

No matter, it sounds too good to let go.

I think the police are covering up because they do not understand the scope of stand your ground laws. I think as soon as they saw this fell within the broad scope of stand your ground that they backed off.

Now, with the focus of the country on their small police force, they are trying to cover their asses

I agree. I think the cops saw that this fell within the scope of the stand your ground law in Florida..........and, that's EXACTLY why they backed off. Sorta a no-brainer as to the reason for backing off, there, don't you think?

 

[Sallow]

This whole thing is just the excuse necessary to attack stand your ground laws. These laws are something that the left cannot tolerate. Too many criminals are killed when they break into people's homes. Where's the compassion?

The "left" cannot tolerate these laws because:

A. There's no need for them.
B. They are so poorly written that people don't understand them.

The author of the law said that it doesn't apply in this case.

Really? Zimmerman seems to think so..as did the police.

And opponents of the law said it was going to get a "trick or treater" shot. We this is pretty damned close.

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

It may have given Zimmerman the overall impression that it is okay to carry a gun when he's involved in his "crime fighting" activities and that he was a de facto cop. Given that he lacks the training involved in Law enforcement..that was a very dangerous notion that led to the situation we have here. Zimmerman probably would not of pursued Martin if he were not armed.

 

[Si modo]

The "left" cannot tolerate these laws because:

A. There's no need for them.
B. They are so poorly written that people don't understand them.

The author of the law said that it doesn't apply in this case.

Really? Zimmerman seems to think so..as did the police.

And opponents of the law said it was going to get a "trick or treater" shot. We this is pretty damned close.

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

It may have given Zimmerman the overall impression that it is okay to carry a gun when he's involved in his "crime fighting" activities and that he was a de facto cop. Given that he lacks the training involved in Law enforcement..that was a very dangerous notion that led to the situation we have here. Zimmerman probably would not of pursued Martin if he were not armed.

I'm betting his conceal carry permit gave him the impression that it's OK to carry.

 

[Sarah G]

If not for the fact that the black went all ****** on Zimmerman, the black would be alive today.

I believed Trayvon was standing his ground and fighting for his life. A bag of skittle against a 9mm? This 90lb child beat up this huge white man?

hes not white...hello.

There are White hispanics and Black hispanics, Zimmerman is White, imo. A Black hispanic would look like J Lo. Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[Sallow]

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

It may have given Zimmerman the overall impression that it is okay to carry a gun when he's involved in his "crime fighting" activities and that he was a de facto cop. Given that he lacks the training involved in Law enforcement..that was a very dangerous notion that led to the situation we have here. Zimmerman probably would not of pursued Martin if he were not armed.

I'm betting his conceal carry permit gave him the impression that it's OK to carry.

If you're looking for a country where citizens are also the arm of law enforcement..good luck with that. It was tried in the wild west..and is still used in places like Somalia and part of Afghanistan.

I'm against it.

 

[rightwinger]

This whole thing is just the excuse necessary to attack stand your ground laws. These laws are something that the left cannot tolerate. Too many criminals are killed when they break into people's homes. Where's the compassion?

The "left" cannot tolerate these laws because:

A. There's no need for them.
B. They are so poorly written that people don't understand them.

The author of the law said that it doesn't apply in this case.

Really? Zimmerman seems to think so..as did the police.

And opponents of the law said it was going to get a "trick or treater" shot. We this is pretty damned close.

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

Zimmerman has a second amendment right to carry a handgun and was licensed to do so.
But with that right comes certain responsibilities. He is expected to use his weapon for defensive purposes. Pursuing someone who is in your neighborhood is not defensive. Initiating contact is not defensive.
If he started a fight and ended up on the bad end of the fight, that is not self defense
He overstepped his bounds as a neighborhood watch and bordered on vigilante justice.

 

[Sarah G]

It may have given Zimmerman the overall impression that it is okay to carry a gun when he's involved in his "crime fighting" activities and that he was a de facto cop. Given that he lacks the training involved in Law enforcement..that was a very dangerous notion that led to the situation we have here. Zimmerman probably would not of pursued Martin if he were not armed.

I'm betting his conceal carry permit gave him the impression that it's OK to carry.

If you're looking for a country where citizens are also the arm of law enforcement..good luck with that. It was tried in the wild west..and is still used in places like Somalia and part of Afghanistan.

I'm against it.

It's called vigilantism, it is against the law. We have groups of them attempting to become relevant in Michigan and Ohio. Life would be chaos if they became successful.

 

[PredFan]

The "left" cannot tolerate these laws because:

A. There's no need for them.
B. They are so poorly written that people don't understand them.

The author of the law said that it doesn't apply in this case.

Really? Zimmerman seems to think so..as did the police.

And opponents of the law said it was going to get a "trick or treater" shot. We this is pretty damned close.

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

Zimmerman has a second amendment right to carry a handgun and was licensed to do so.
But with that right comes certain responsibilities. He is expected to use his weapon for defensive purposes. Pursuing someone who is in your neighborhood is not defensive. Initiating contact is not defensive.
If he started a fight and ended up on the bad end of the fight, that is not self defense
He overstepped his bounds as a neighborhood watch and bordered on vigilante justice.

If he started the fight, you might be right. Zimmerman claims that Martin started the fight and unless there is evidence to the contrary, he has to remain a free man.

 

[rightwinger]

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

Zimmerman has a second amendment right to carry a handgun and was licensed to do so.
But with that right comes certain responsibilities. He is expected to use his weapon for defensive purposes. Pursuing someone who is in your neighborhood is not defensive. Initiating contact is not defensive.
If he started a fight and ended up on the bad end of the fight, that is not self defense
He overstepped his bounds as a neighborhood watch and bordered on vigilante justice.

If he started the fight, you might be right. Zimmerman claims that Martin started the fight and unless there is evidence to the contrary, he has to remain a free man.

I have to agree.

And now, almost a month later, it is difficult to prove one way or another.

Personally, I see no reason for him to leave his truck that night

 

[Trajan]

I believed Trayvon was standing his ground and fighting for his life. A bag of skittle against a 9mm? This 90lb child beat up this huge white man?

hes not white...hello.

There are White hispanics and Black hispanics, Zimmerman is White, imo. A Black hispanic would look like J Lo. Does that make sense to anyone?

really? he sure looks Hispanic to me. his mother is Hispanic.....sorta like obama having a white mom but looking black, so, hes black...only zimmerman is more Hispanic than obama is black....

 

[KissMy]

Given, this law does not apply in this case. Now what?

If Treyvon Martin escalated the altercation by the use of a weapon, Zimmerman was entitled to use a weapon. Separate and apart from any stand your ground law. Zimmerman was entitled to carry his weapon because he had a permit to do so. Separate and apart from any stand your ground defense.

If the intent is to weaken or eliminate stand your ground defenses, it makes sense to use it as a platform in this case. Otherwise it doesn't apply.

Zimmerman has a second amendment right to carry a handgun and was licensed to do so.
But with that right comes certain responsibilities. He is expected to use his weapon for defensive purposes. Pursuing someone who is in your neighborhood is not defensive. Initiating contact is not defensive.
If he started a fight and ended up on the bad end of the fight, that is not self defense
He overstepped his bounds as a neighborhood watch and bordered on vigilante justice.

If he started the fight, you might be right. Zimmerman claims that Martin started the fight and unless there is evidence to the contrary, he has to remain a free man.

It is not just who started the fight, in-order to use deadly force, Zimmerman had to fear for his life. By the screams on the 911 tape it does sound like Zimmerman was in fear, but there may be doubt as to how serious Zimmerman's injuries were. They should probably take away his gun permit until there is a conclusion.

 

[Ravi]

Yes the police want to cover it up because??????

They are protecting a fellow officer and rampant racism in the police force.

But Zimmerman is neither a cop or white.

No matter, it sounds too good to let go.

I think the police are covering up because they do not understand the scope of stand your ground laws. I think as soon as they saw this fell within the broad scope of stand your ground that they backed off.

Now, with the focus of the country on their small police force, they are trying to cover their asses

This is probably pretty close to the truth. A judge must make the determination if a person is granted immunity under stand your ground. In this case it doesn't look like it ever got to a judge to decide, rather the police and/or the DA made the decision to not bother pressing charges.

Self-defense can only be determined in a court of law. So if it is true that this case doesn't fall under stand your ground, there needs to be a trial to determine if Zimmerman acted in self-defense or not.

 

[Amelia]

Apparently, Martin was beating on Zimmerman for quite some time before he got shot. According to the sources I have read, a witness saw the beating when he took his dog outside for a potty break. The witness first told the attacker he was going to call 911, then he retrieved his dog who was not on a leash, then he went to his upstairs apartment some distance away to make the 911 call. Even while he was making the call, the voice of Zimmerman yelling for help could still be heard in the background. Only when the gunshot was heard did the cries for help stop. The beating obviously took more than just a few seconds, most likely several minutes.

Zimmerman's injuries (bloody face and head) were recorded by the police; however, I have heard no reports of any injuries to Martin other than the gunshot. This leads me to believe that Martin was the attacker and Zimmerman was unable to fight back. Common sense tells you that no man would endure a beating that lasted as long as that experienced by Zimmerman without trying to ward off his attacker. Zimmerman's multiple injuries and the apparent lack of injuries to Martin prove Zimmerman was the guy on the bottom and he was unable to defend himself without using deadly force.

I would like to know if if the bullet passed through Martin's body. This is important because if it passed through it could provide additional information as to who was on top. If Zimmerman were on top, I would expect the bullet to be found right under Martin's body, possible penetrating into the ground or asphalt. If the bullet passed through the body but was not found on the scene, Zimmerman was obviously on the bottom during the beating. I really don't need this evidence since other information independently proves Martin was on top, but I am curious nonetheless.

Fortunately, unemotional forensics will be the deciding factor. If forensics show that Martin was shot at point-blank range after he had been beating on Zimmerman for more than a few seconds with no end in sight, there is no way Zimmerman will be convicted; arrested perhaps for purely political reasons, but not convicted. Hell, this case would be a defense attorney's dream.

There are those who think that Martin was shot as he was running away or perhaps backing off. If this is the case, Zimmerman had no right to use deadly force since he no longer had a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury (this is the legal standard for self-defense). However, this could only be true if the ballistic evidence shows that Martin was shot at some distance. I don't have access to the official ballistics findings, but from everything I have read I am certain that the evidence will show that Martin was shot at point-blank range during the time he was beating Zimmerman. The good thing is that the ballistic evidence should be conclusive. Final analysis: self defense.

I can only wonder what would have happened to Zimmerman if he were unarmed. Do any of you wonder the same thing?

Yeah.

Zimmerman and Martin would be down at the police station giving their sides of the story about the fist fight they had.

Then they would have probably been released.

That is one possibility. The other is that Zimmerman would be dead. Since the beating went on for at least several minutes, and there were no signs of it ending, I tend to go with the latter possibility. I haven't been in a lot of fights, but I do know that most fights end when one of the parties shows dominance. The fact that the attack lasted at least several minutes, with multiple injuries to Zimmerman but none to Martin convinces me that Martin was trying to do more than show the other guy who is boss. But I could be wrong so I will give you the last word.

If Zimmerman was unarmed, that chickenshit pig wouldn't have had the courage to track down the scary black boy. So, no, Zimmerman wouldn't be dead either because he would be scrunched up in his car trying not be be noticed while he waiting for the police to show up, if he had even been able to muster up the guts to join the crime watch to begin with.

 

[Againsheila]

So, was the kid shot in the front or the back?

 

[Amelia]

There is as much evidence that Treyvon Martin was a street thug as there is that Zimmerman is a racist, which is NONE at all.

There is a witness. The witness gives an account consistent with Zimmerman's injuries. That's the only facts we have at this time. Is it possible that Treyvon was confronted, felt "dissed" and decided that he would pull a "tude" with Zimmerman that included giving hin a thump on the head with a car of iced tea?

No matter what those who were not there think, a great deal is going to turn on that can. If there is blood on it, and that blood is Zimmerman's this whole case is gone. It's going to be Duke Lacrosse all over again.

My theory, and I wasn't there so it is 100% speculation at this time is that Martin shoved Zimmerman to the ground, wounding him on the back of his head, and then sat on him punching him in the face which accounted for his bloodied nose. Zimmerman pulled the gun that martin didn't know he had, and shot him.

I will be interested in hearing the ballistics on this case.

I want to see the chemical analysis of the blood on the CAN.

According to the witness, and I heard this on the news last night. I have not looked for a link. Zimmerman and Martin got into a verbal confrontation. Zimmerman said that he had called the police and was going to meet with them. He then left Martin and was opening the door to his car when Martin jumped him from behind and hit him in the head with the can. Zimmerman fell to the ground and rolled over with Martin beating him in the face with the can. Zimmerman, clearly identified by the red jacket he was wearing was screaming help me. No one responded. Zimmerman was able to reach his gun and shot Treyvon Martin. The witness did not see the actual gunshot because he was distracted by his dog so missed that crucial moment. We don't know whether there was any struggle for control of the gun.

I would hope the can had been preserved. If there was blood on it. If that blood was Zimmerman's we should know that by now. Logically, if the can did not have blood on it, or if the blood was not Zimmerman's, he would have been arrested by now. The shooting was clearly unprovoked. So far, the evidence is consistent with self-defense. How afraid are the authorities to release the information about the can?

So there was more than one witness with a dog?

That's nothing like the story I heard from the 13-year-old who was out with his dog but missed the crucial moment because his dog got off the leash.

 

[Sarah G]

Zimmerman has a second amendment right to carry a handgun and was licensed to do so.
But with that right comes certain responsibilities. He is expected to use his weapon for defensive purposes. Pursuing someone who is in your neighborhood is not defensive. Initiating contact is not defensive.
If he started a fight and ended up on the bad end of the fight, that is not self defense
He overstepped his bounds as a neighborhood watch and bordered on vigilante justice.

If he started the fight, you might be right. Zimmerman claims that Martin started the fight and unless there is evidence to the contrary, he has to remain a free man.

It is not just who started the fight, in-order to use deadly force, Zimmerman had to fear for his life. By the screams on the 911 tape it does sound like Zimmerman was in fear, but there may be doubt as to how serious Zimmerman's injuries were. They should probably take away his gun permit until there is a conclusion.

Thanks for weighing in with these dumb comments.

 

[Amelia]

I don't see it as a hate crime as his primary focus. I am sure "some of his best friends are black"

But I think he looked at blacks as not belonging in his neighborhood and any black is obviously up to no good.

I don't think he is guilty of murder, I do not see the intent. But he made some very poor decisions that night and they led to an unfortunate death.

Do you know for a fact that no black people live in this gated community? No black people live in Sanford? What do you know about the black demographics in Sanford?

I'm willing to go with any evidence found on the can of tea. An Arizona Ice Tea can is quite a bit bigger than a can of soda so where's the analysis of the can?

There are black people in that gated community that he protects, or so I've heard on several occasions. though I admit to not knowing that as a fact.

There are black people in that gated community but one of them said that because of Zimmerman's profiling activities he felt it was better to drive somewhere else if he felt like taking a walk, rather than walking around his own neighborhood. Just to be on the safe side.

 

[Si modo]

Do you know for a fact that no black people live in this gated community? No black people live in Sanford? What do you know about the black demographics in Sanford?

I'm willing to go with any evidence found on the can of tea. An Arizona Ice Tea can is quite a bit bigger than a can of soda so where's the analysis of the can?

There are black people in that gated community that he protects, or so I've heard on several occasions. though I admit to not knowing that as a fact.

There are black people in that gated community but one of them said that because of Zimmerman's profiling activities he felt it was better to drive somewhere else if he felt like taking a walk, rather than walking around his own neighborhood. Just to be on the safe side.

Source/link, please.