No Evidence

[Wuwei]

Show me your multiple sources.

You want him to provide more sources that refute his own claims?

Yep. I guess that is what he does. It makes arguing with him simpler.

 

[SSDD]

As the multiple sources I provided stated...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another.

Show me your multiple sources.

Refer to post 1014. You know...it isn't any big secret..except perhaps to you and those like you, that radiated heat is, in fact, photons...if you believe in photons, what the hell else could it be? You think there is something else going on when energy is radiated other than photons moving from one place to another?

[QUOTE="SSDD, post: 21608932, member: 40906"
Nope. Everybody should not know what you think. Clausius and Kelvin-Planck stated heat moves in one direction. "Energy" is much broader term than heat.[/QUOTE]

Heat is energy...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another...it is very interesting that you don't know this..that you think energy, in the form of heat, moving from one place to another is something other than photons...Again...what might it be...how might energy move from place to place via radiation, if it isn't in the form of photons?

 

[SSDD]

Ahhhhh..I get it.. You don't know what heat is.. I already provided the answer for you, but the answer puts you in opposition with your beliefs so therefore you can't accept it, no matter how many times it is provided for you...

You didn't provide any answers to anything. Your fizzics is not accepted by science.

Of course I did...Did it part your hair as it zipped right over your head?

 

[SSDD]

"They" are Clausius and later Boltzmann who rewrote the second law 150 years ago. Here is the history:

I am laughing in your stupid face...is there nothing that you won't interpret in an effort to support your faith...

Clausius in 1865 defined entropy and concluded it tends to a maximum
1872 Boltzmann developed a proof of the entropy principle with the use of statistical mechanics and showed entropy is not a mere postulate like the earlier forms of the second law.

Yeah...and by definition entropy means energy moving from a more organized state (warm) to a less organized state (cool) and all natural processes are irreversible...ergo, the clause that states that energy won't move from cool to warm without some work having been done to make it happen.

You are pathetic.

 

[SSDD]

Show me your multiple sources.

You want him to provide more sources that refute his own claims?

Yep. I guess that is what he does. It makes arguing with him simpler.

Some mutual chain yanking going on there in public? Make you feel better?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As the multiple sources I provided stated...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another.

Show me your multiple sources.

Refer to post 1014. You know...it isn't any big secret..except perhaps to you and those like you, that radiated heat is, in fact, photons...if you believe in photons, what the hell else could it be? You think there is something else going on when energy is radiated other than photons moving from one place to another?

[QUOTE="SSDD, post: 21608932, member: 40906"
Nope. Everybody should not know what you think. Clausius and Kelvin-Planck stated heat moves in one direction. "Energy" is much broader term than heat.

Heat is energy...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another...it is very interesting that you don't know this..that you think energy, in the form of heat, moving from one place to another is something other than photons...Again...what might it be...how might energy move from place to place via radiation, if it isn't in the form of photons?[/QUOTE]

.heat is the movement of photons from one place to another.

You're lying.

 

[Wuwei]

So now you are contesting the second law of thermodynamics and the SB law.

Nope. You are the one who is contesting the laws.

Heat is energy...heat is the movement of photons from one place to another...it is very interesting that you don't know this..that you think energy, in the form of heat, moving from one place to another is something other than photons...Again...what might it be...how might energy move from place to place via radiation, if it isn't in the form of photons?

You still don't understand modern physics. Sure heat can move from place to place via photons as long as the total energy is from warm to cold bodies. Photons are not constrained in movement. The fact is that the colder body heats up because of the less energetic flow of photons from the cold body to the warm body. That all comes out of the SB law. It's interesting you don't know this.

 

[SSDD]

Nope. You are the one who is contesting the laws.

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Which part of that statement do you think I am contesting?

You still don't understand modern physics.

What you call "modern" physics is an unobservable, unmeasurable, untestable mathematical model...

Sure heat can move from place to place via photons as long as the total energy is from warm to cold bodies.

So you say...and yet, the physical laws themselves don't say so..Let me know when they are changed.

Photons are not constrained in movement.

So you say...and yet, you can't measure a discrete wavelength of energy moving from a cool body to a warm body unless you cool the instrument to a temperature lower than that of the cool body....and then you are only measuring it moving to the cooled instrument...not to the warmer object.

 

[Crick]

Photons are, themselves, not heat. Heat is the motion of molecules. Photons certainly flow from one piece of matter to another, but there is no heat outside of matter.

YOU have the extraordinary claim. YOU have the responsibility to provide us extraordinary evidence. Show us photons being constrained. Give us a mechanism for accomplishing such a thing. And explain how it does not violate relativity.

 

[Wuwei]

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Which part of that statement do you think I am contesting?

That wording is fine if the word Energy is understood to be net energy as every physicist knows.

What you call "modern" physics is an unobservable, unmeasurable, untestable mathematical model...

Yes, we know you don't believe in modern physics. But that is no argument that carries any weight here.

So you say...and yet, you can't measure a discrete wavelength of energy moving from a cool body to a warm body unless you cool the instrument to a temperature lower than that of the cool body....and then you are only measuring it moving to the cooled instrument...not to the warmer object.

Au contraire, discrete wavelengths of energy have been measured moving from a cool body to a warm body without a cooled instrument. Remember you even said yourself that the 2.7⁰K CMB is black body radiation and discrete resonant frequencies were measured after hitting the warm antenna and focused a 4⁰K resonant detector. Don't you remember?

Everyone knows photons in an earthly environment can only be impeded by hitting matter. The temperature of the matter doesn't matter. This was already shown by many different examples.

.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nope. You are the one who is contesting the laws.

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Which part of that statement do you think I am contesting?

You still don't understand modern physics.

What you call "modern" physics is an unobservable, unmeasurable, untestable mathematical model...

Sure heat can move from place to place via photons as long as the total energy is from warm to cold bodies.

So you say...and yet, the physical laws themselves don't say so..Let me know when they are changed.

Photons are not constrained in movement.

So you say...and yet, you can't measure a discrete wavelength of energy moving from a cool body to a warm body unless you cool the instrument to a temperature lower than that of the cool body....and then you are only measuring it moving to the cooled instrument...not to the warmer object.

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow.

So when we see a photon moving from cold to warm, that means work was done. Ok.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Photons are, themselves, not heat. Heat is the motion of molecules. Photons certainly flow from one piece of matter to another, but there is no heat outside of matter.

YOU have the extraordinary claim. YOU have the responsibility to provide us extraordinary evidence. Show us photons being constrained. Give us a mechanism for accomplishing such a thing. And explain how it does not violate relativity.

Not to mention violating causality.

 

[IanC]

A rock will only spontaneously fall down a hill. But something put the rock on top of the hill. At some point there was always energy used to create the conditions for a spontaneous event.

 

[Crick]

The entire universe got started at the top of a very big hill.

 

[IanC]

Sunshine pushes the rock uphill only to have it start rolling down during the night.

 

[SSDD]

Photons are, themselves, not heat. Heat is the motion of molecules. Photons certainly flow from one piece of matter to another, but there is no heat outside of matter.

Photons are the smallest bit of energy possible in an EM field which can still be called part of the EM field...Heat is the motion of molecules in solids and liquids...but energy in the form of radiation, is not due to the motion of molecules beyond its point of origin.

YOU have the extraordinary claim. YOU have the responsibility to provide us extraordinary evidence. Show us photons being constrained. Give us a mechanism for accomplishing such a thing. And explain how it does not violate relativity.

Actually...it is you who has made the extraordinary claim and therefore must provide extraordinary evidence....

Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat o flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

You are the one claiming that this statement is untrue. You are the one claiming that energy can move spontaneously, without any work having been done from a cool object to a warm object....You are the one claiming that heat can flow spontaneously from a cool object to a warm object.

I am in perfect agreement with the statement of the second law of thermodynamics...what is extraordinary about that? You on the other hand are claiming that something else is happening....something not stated in the second law...the burden of extraordinary evidence lies squarely on your shoulders and has since I first arrived at this board....to date, you haven't even come close to providing any such evidence...you merely mewl about consensus...and how many people also have not provided any extraordinary evidence in support of their beliefs.

 

[SSDD]

That wording is fine if the word Energy is understood to be net energy as every physicist knows.

So the wording is fine so long as it doesn't have to mean what it says? Got it.. Let me know when they change the words to mean what you and "every other physicist" wish it said.

Yes, we know you don't believe in modern physics. But that is no argument that carries any weight here.

Belief in a model is fine so long as its predictions have been observed and tested against reality...alas, yours have not.

Au contraire, discrete wavelengths of energy have been measured moving from a cool body to a warm body without a cooled instrument. Remember you even said yourself that the 2.7⁰K CMB is black body radiation and discrete resonant frequencies were measured after hitting the warm antenna and focused a 4⁰K resonant detector. Don't you remember?

A resonant radio frequency is never going to be CMB...it is tragic that your whole premise lies upon such a misunderstanding....Why do you believe that is the only instance of energy movement from cool to warm that you can find? Why are there not measurements of discrete wavelengths of energy moving from cool to warm in practically every instance of energy supposedly moving from cool to warm? If, in fact energy moved freely from cool to warm, you could provide any number of observations rather than one tragic misunderstanding on your part.

Everyone knows photons in an earthly environment can only be impeded by hitting matter. The temperature of the matter doesn't matter. This was already shown by many different examples.

And "everyone" knows that the Emperor's new clothes are absolutely stunning...let me know when you can show me some samples of the fabric.

 

[SSDD]

A rock will only spontaneously fall down a hill. But something put the rock on top of the hill. At some point there was always energy used to create the conditions for a spontaneous event.

And don't forget that all natural processes are irreversible...once a warm object has lost energy...it doesn't get it back....none of it.

 

[Wuwei]

So the wording is fine so long as it doesn't have to mean what it says? Got it.. Let me know when they change the words to mean what you and "every other physicist" wish it said.

From the hyperphysics site.

It is important to note that when it is stated that energy will not spontaneously flow from a cold object to a hot object, that statement is referring to net transfer of energy. Energy can transfer from the cold object to the hot object either by transfer of energetic particles or electromagnetic radiation, but the net transfer will be from the hot object to the cold object in any spontaneous process. Work is required to transfer net energy to the hot object.​

Belief in a model is fine so long as its predictions have been observed and tested against reality...alas, yours have not.

Liar. All predictions of QM have been observed. But you still think it's fairy dust.

A resonant radio frequency is never going to be CMB...it is tragic that your whole premise lies upon such a misunderstanding....Why do you believe that is the only instance of energy movement from cool to warm that you can find? Why are there not measurements of discrete wavelengths of energy moving from cool to warm in practically every instance of energy supposedly moving from cool to warm? If, in fact energy moved freely from cool to warm, you could provide any number of observations rather than one tragic misunderstanding on your part.

You are lying again. These examples of observations or measurements of photons from a cold source hitting a warmer object have been given to you many times.

Chemical light stick.
Slow decay phosphorescence
Gamma decay of technetium, et al.
Luminescence from plants and animals
Cosmic microwave background
Sunlight passing through hotter corona.​

.

And "everyone" knows that the Emperor's new clothes are absolutely stunning...let me know when you can show me some samples of the fabric.

Your idiocy is absolutely stunning. Not only are your beliefs idiotic, but you stoop to the stupidest rational to support your idiocy. You are not fooling anyone.

 

[jc456]

Photons are, themselves, not heat. Heat is the motion of molecules. Photons certainly flow from one piece of matter to another, but there is no heat outside of matter.

YOU have the extraordinary claim. YOU have the responsibility to provide us extraordinary evidence. Show us photons being constrained. Give us a mechanism for accomplishing such a thing. And explain how it does not violate relativity.

you claimed that the atmosphere warmed, why can't you prove that?