No matter who wins, we lose.

[SavannahMann]

This is going to be long, and there is literally no way to make it shorter. I’m sorry.

It’s taken a while for the picture to make sense regarding the Russian actions during the election. There were several problems with every scenario put forth. They did not match the information, they just didn’t make sense.

To cover a couple of these, start with the favorite of the Never Trump folks. That Trump worked some sort of secret deal to get elected President with the Russians. This supposedly happened when Trump was the joke of the campaign. When his candidacy was commented on with laughter. I could include the same old video with the experts laughing as they swear that Trump will never be President. But why? We’ve seen it all before. It didn’t make sense. The Russians would not expend money and effort to get Gluefactory Reject to the Kentucky Derby. Getting behind Trump when they supposedly did would be the same as betting long money a year before that Gluefactory Reject would win the Derby. It was insane.

The next problem, was the hacked emails. The argument that this was always part of the plan. If the DNC had been honest, then hacking the emails would have been a waste of time. The same with Podesta of Hillary’s campaign. First, getting access should have been nearly impossible. Second, there shouldn’t have been anything worth getting. Why would a burglar break into a house, and try to break into a nearly impenetrable safe to steal costume jewelry?

The next thing that didn’t fit any of the narratives was the undeniable fact that Hillary had just as long of a history with the Russians as Trump and his associates. Bill’s famous speech, the Uranium deal, all of it. Hillary’s history is the reason why I said I would not vote for her the day before she announced.

None of the explanations to date have included all the information, none of them have been able to explain the obvious problems. Now, I think the picture is starting to clear. It didn’t matter who won.

First, you have to remember that the Russians are actually pretty smart. They aren’t idiots. They aren’t morons. They aren’t buffoons. They are savvy and they are clever. The reactive armor systems that they use are brilliant. They actually have better tanks than we do because of it. Yes, I mean just that. Their tanks are superior to ours. Perhaps we can start a thread in the Military section and I’ll explain why, but for now, just accept that their tanks are pretty much awesome.

These are not backwards people, they are smart, and they are famous for bringing out deep thinking individuals.

Now, what brought the picture into focus? Two of the last pieces of information. First, The Hill reported this. Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook

Then I read about Facebook and Google testifying on the Hill. Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

The ads that were put out were designed to crank up debate, and strong emotions, on both sides of the aisle during the campaign. The only reason for that is to make the divide between right and left as wide as possible. To focus on our differences, to pit one brother against another.

No sooner was Trump elected, than the focus shifted, the effort shifted to further delegitimize Trump. To drive the divisions deep, and wide.

Now, this is a Russian type of plan. It is exactly the kind of plan they used during the Second World War that destroyed the German Army. It is exactly the kind of plan they used to drive the West back. No matter what you do, you lose.

When I was being trained as a Combat Engineer, I was taught to plan not only on how to ambush the enemy, but how to cut off their escape routes. We called this effort using land mines as a Break or Relay. No matter which way they turned, they died. No matter what they did, they died. My understanding was that we learned it in Vietnam. It took patience, and experience, and intelligence to design those kinds of ambushes. Where a few people could take out a much larger enemy force by being smart.

This is starting to look like a classic ambush of that sort. No matter who we elected, we lost. Remember Hillary was the front runner. The odds of her becoming President were above 80%. The idea that a year before, the Russians saw a way to upset this is ridiculous. The Russians rarely bet on a long shot. Betting on Trump when he was polling at about 2% against Hillary’s 40% is just insane.

But the Russians wanted revenge. Revenge over what we had done to them. Yes, we started it. We ginned up the war in Syria. That by the way is undeniable, and please don’t make me walk you through that again. Hillary was a major force behind it. When it failed, there are many who believe that the CIA ginned up the RW revolution in the Ukraine that caused the Russians to use the soft takeover to secure their interests in the Crimean Peninsula. In both cases, a Naval Base was threatened.

So sewing discord in the ones threatening you is a smart move. Again, it didn’t matter who won, we lost.

Let’s say that Hillary won. Then the part that had not elected her would be shouting and screaming and it would be that she was “Not my President”. Remember, this was the expected outcome. That we would have Hillary as President with a Republican controlled House by a wide margin, and probably Republican Senate. At least two more years, probably four, of Executive Action President with nothing getting through Congress.

No matter who won, we lost. The divide between the two camps would be wider than ever, and the international tensions coupled with domestic difficulties would hamstring anyone.

Even now, we are playing the game the Russians set into motion. Let’s say Trump is impeached, or forced to resign. Then we have Pence. So nothing gained, and the disgust and dissatisfaction with the Government increases. Pence resignes, and we have Ryan. The dissatisfaction increases. Perhaps the Democrats win, but they win a nation teetering on the brink of a civil war. No way to unify, no way to bring the two sides together. But unification isn’t even a goal of either side. They both want the other side destroyed, demolished, and utterly defeated. The left wants the right to be thrown from Government, discredited, and even labeled as traitors. The insanity of race relations has gotten so far from the inspiring words of Dr. King that we are on the verge of a Race War. The Right wants the Socialist Left to be slaughtered in the streets.

We may be headed into another war with Russia, and we’ve already lost.

 

[EverCurious]

I think the entire world got trolled. Hell the "Russian agency" that supposedly paid for all these "ads" is literally a troll group called the Internet Research Agency [also known as the "Trolls of Olgino"] A group calling themselves Anonymous International are the ones who claimed they were hooked to the Russian government, though all the people actually involved laugh that accusation off - and /all/ of these accusations were leveled back in 2013, and reported on extensively through-out 2013-2015 in certain circles.

I find it amusing as fuck that our politicians are literally basing an interference claim on recognized and even admitted internet trolls. [We're talking about 4chan people here folks.] Even if you want to say the Russian government pays them - has been paying them to fuck with people all over, in Russia, in Europe, in America, in Africa, everywhere; it's still rather amusing...

Like even if we say the claims are legit, this IRA troll group totally trolled the American election specifically and intentionally because they wanted to get Donald Trump elected. ooookay. Now what? Do we now say that no foreign citizen or government official can ever say anything about our elections or our candidates? When will the "influence" charges and sanctions hit most of Europe's leaders? After all they said bad shit about Trump during the election, they made negative tweets and posts about him (and I think there were some about Hillary too.) When do we level charges on all the foreign citizens who said shit. When do the groups supporting illegal aliens get their charges?

Is that all now illegal? Where does this all go? Where does it lead, and where does it end?

Foreigners are not allowed to say anything about our politics, our leaders, our system, our culture, our beliefs? Really? Are we really going to go there? Can we end multiculturalism to prevent "influence" now? Should we prevent American's from visiting foreign countries where we might see a foreigner's comment on our elections or a candidate they like or don't like? Are we North Korea now? Do we shut down all foreign news agencies, shut down their transmissions if they comment about American politics, prevent foreign individuals from speaking freely about our politics and ideals?

Are American's going to be charged with "influencing" for sharing their opinions and comments about Brexit, Spain's or France's politics? If we put out an ad against Globalism, the UN, or Russia's political activities in Syria aren't we "influencing" their politics? When our President makes comments about their policies aren't we doing the same shit?

It's vastly amusing to me how knee jerk stupid people are, how intellectually dishonest, how foolish. Of course foreigners have an interest in our politics, our elections. Of course they have their own preferences on who we'd elect. Of course they comment on that... and of course they make fun of us about it all. It's actually very common in Russia, to make fun of American's, their ideas, beliefs, and political bullshit. No surprise the trolls have done so - they always have. I just find it interesting that /now/ it's a problem; even though it's been happening since probably early 2000.

I find it very interesting that it's suddenly a problem when the DNC gets slapped by hackers and all their bullshit corruption is exposed to the world. Don't you find that a bit... convenient? Even just a little bit?

 

[EverCurious]

Additional questions:

When do we charge the MSM with "influencing" the American election and "collusion" with Clinton and the DNC?

When do we charge all the groups buying ads for their attempts to push American's to support socialism, and communism, and globalism, and even capitalism?

What about Soros, when do his fucking charges for influencing the election hit?


Where exactly does it end kids?

 

[Disir]

It doesn't. That's the beauty of it.

 

[gipper]

This is going to be long, and there is literally no way to make it shorter. I’m sorry.

It’s taken a while for the picture to make sense regarding the Russian actions during the election. There were several problems with every scenario put forth. They did not match the information, they just didn’t make sense.

To cover a couple of these, start with the favorite of the Never Trump folks. That Trump worked some sort of secret deal to get elected President with the Russians. This supposedly happened when Trump was the joke of the campaign. When his candidacy was commented on with laughter. I could include the same old video with the experts laughing as they swear that Trump will never be President. But why? We’ve seen it all before. It didn’t make sense. The Russians would not expend money and effort to get Gluefactory Reject to the Kentucky Derby. Getting behind Trump when they supposedly did would be the same as betting long money a year before that Gluefactory Reject would win the Derby. It was insane.

The next problem, was the hacked emails. The argument that this was always part of the plan. If the DNC had been honest, then hacking the emails would have been a waste of time. The same with Podesta of Hillary’s campaign. First, getting access should have been nearly impossible. Second, there shouldn’t have been anything worth getting. Why would a burglar break into a house, and try to break into a nearly impenetrable safe to steal costume jewelry?

The next thing that didn’t fit any of the narratives was the undeniable fact that Hillary had just as long of a history with the Russians as Trump and his associates. Bill’s famous speech, the Uranium deal, all of it. Hillary’s history is the reason why I said I would not vote for her the day before she announced.

None of the explanations to date have included all the information, none of them have been able to explain the obvious problems. Now, I think the picture is starting to clear. It didn’t matter who won.

First, you have to remember that the Russians are actually pretty smart. They aren’t idiots. They aren’t morons. They aren’t buffoons. They are savvy and they are clever. The reactive armor systems that they use are brilliant. They actually have better tanks than we do because of it. Yes, I mean just that. Their tanks are superior to ours. Perhaps we can start a thread in the Military section and I’ll explain why, but for now, just accept that their tanks are pretty much awesome.

These are not backwards people, they are smart, and they are famous for bringing out deep thinking individuals.

Now, what brought the picture into focus? Two of the last pieces of information. First, The Hill reported this. Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook

Then I read about Facebook and Google testifying on the Hill. Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

The ads that were put out were designed to crank up debate, and strong emotions, on both sides of the aisle during the campaign. The only reason for that is to make the divide between right and left as wide as possible. To focus on our differences, to pit one brother against another.

No sooner was Trump elected, than the focus shifted, the effort shifted to further delegitimize Trump. To drive the divisions deep, and wide.

Now, this is a Russian type of plan. It is exactly the kind of plan they used during the Second World War that destroyed the German Army. It is exactly the kind of plan they used to drive the West back. No matter what you do, you lose.

When I was being trained as a Combat Engineer, I was taught to plan not only on how to ambush the enemy, but how to cut off their escape routes. We called this effort using land mines as a Break or Relay. No matter which way they turned, they died. No matter what they did, they died. My understanding was that we learned it in Vietnam. It took patience, and experience, and intelligence to design those kinds of ambushes. Where a few people could take out a much larger enemy force by being smart.

This is starting to look like a classic ambush of that sort. No matter who we elected, we lost. Remember Hillary was the front runner. The odds of her becoming President were above 80%. The idea that a year before, the Russians saw a way to upset this is ridiculous. The Russians rarely bet on a long shot. Betting on Trump when he was polling at about 2% against Hillary’s 40% is just insane.

But the Russians wanted revenge. Revenge over what we had done to them. Yes, we started it. We ginned up the war in Syria. That by the way is undeniable, and please don’t make me walk you through that again. Hillary was a major force behind it. When it failed, there are many who believe that the CIA ginned up the RW revolution in the Ukraine that caused the Russians to use the soft takeover to secure their interests in the Crimean Peninsula. In both cases, a Naval Base was threatened.

So sewing discord in the ones threatening you is a smart move. Again, it didn’t matter who won, we lost.

Let’s say that Hillary won. Then the part that had not elected her would be shouting and screaming and it would be that she was “Not my President”. Remember, this was the expected outcome. That we would have Hillary as President with a Republican controlled House by a wide margin, and probably Republican Senate. At least two more years, probably four, of Executive Action President with nothing getting through Congress.

No matter who won, we lost. The divide between the two camps would be wider than ever, and the international tensions coupled with domestic difficulties would hamstring anyone.

Even now, we are playing the game the Russians set into motion. Let’s say Trump is impeached, or forced to resign. Then we have Pence. So nothing gained, and the disgust and dissatisfaction with the Government increases. Pence resignes, and we have Ryan. The dissatisfaction increases. Perhaps the Democrats win, but they win a nation teetering on the brink of a civil war. No way to unify, no way to bring the two sides together. But unification isn’t even a goal of either side. They both want the other side destroyed, demolished, and utterly defeated. The left wants the right to be thrown from Government, discredited, and even labeled as traitors. The insanity of race relations has gotten so far from the inspiring words of Dr. King that we are on the verge of a Race War. The Right wants the Socialist Left to be slaughtered in the streets.

We may be headed into another war with Russia, and we’ve already lost.

Divide and conquer.

 

[Disir]

And it's no different from US foreign policy. The same tactic is used to overthrow governments in other nation-states.

It's just not as fun.

As far as I am concerned, the memes were lame as hell. I haven't seen any roll down my feed at FB. Even so, it didn't change anything. The funny thing is that it wouldn't be a problem if people just focused on issues rather than how funner it is to say Libtard and shit like that, nay?

 

[Geaux4it]

Excellent analysis going on in this thread

-Geaux

 

[EverCurious]

FB estimates that 124M users "saw them" and were "influenced" - I say bullshit, I don't even look at their stupid ad feeds...

Hell I get ads for Viagra and mens vitamins all the time, useless shit for me. The only ads I even pay attention to are Amazon ads, and that's just because I have it linked to the prime early deals thing. My friends list contains more "ads" for political bullshit than any of the "ads" I actually get heh

hmmm actually... after having seen the meme's my circle posts all the time, and some of the sample ads FB says they posted: maybe I did actually see some. They put out ads in support of Sanders, in support of socialism programs, against Trump and Hillary, pro military ads, pro family unit ads, anti immigration ads, pro illegal ads, anti transgender bathroom ads... Maybe I did see some? (Though so far I haven't seen any that I recognized yet. ~shrug~)

 

[gipper]

And it's no different from US foreign policy. The same tactic is used to overthrow governments in other nation-states.

It's just not as fun.

As far as I am concerned, the memes were lame as hell. I haven't seen any roll down my feed at FB. Even so, it didn't change anything. The funny thing is that it wouldn't be a problem if people just focused on issues rather than how funner it is to say Libtard and shit like that, nay?

The USA via the CIA has tried to subvert foriegn elections for decades. Even murdering foriegn leaders. It is done by both D and R presidents.

It is long past the time to eliminate the CIA altogether and get control of the military industrial complex...but now I am dreaming.

 

[Geaux4it]

What's the difference between Russian ads and MSM propaganda?

Folks need to find them a BS meter

-Geaux

 

[Disir]

And it's no different from US foreign policy. The same tactic is used to overthrow governments in other nation-states.

It's just not as fun.

As far as I am concerned, the memes were lame as hell. I haven't seen any roll down my feed at FB. Even so, it didn't change anything. The funny thing is that it wouldn't be a problem if people just focused on issues rather than how funner it is to say Libtard and shit like that, nay?

The USA via the CIA has tried to subvert foriegn elections for decades. Even murdering foriegn leaders. It is done by both D and R presidents.

It is long past the time to eliminate the CIA altogether and get control of the military industrial complex...but now I am dreaming.

Pffttt..........yeah, you are. Need some coffee?

 

[EverCurious]

We should probably be really fucking cautious about where we go with this entire thing...

Right now we have evidence and proof that the MSM is in the DNC's pocket, so basically everything the DNC... I mean MSM says about a foreign election or government could, by our own current jaw flapping, be turned against us as "influencing" foreign governments - and no fucking doubt our people bitch and whine and post meme's about foreign political and social issues on a daily basis. We're setting ourselves up to get fucking sued and sanctioned if we pursue this insanity...

 

[Geaux4it]

Idiots who can't think for themselves rely on someone else to tell them how to think

Same morons who signed dotted line for mortgage they now they couldn't afford. Then blame it on someone else when they default

-Geaux

 

[SavannahMann]

And it's no different from US foreign policy. The same tactic is used to overthrow governments in other nation-states.

It's just not as fun.

As far as I am concerned, the memes were lame as hell. I haven't seen any roll down my feed at FB. Even so, it didn't change anything. The funny thing is that it wouldn't be a problem if people just focused on issues rather than how funner it is to say Libtard and shit like that, nay?

Believe it or not that was my initial reaction. We can not get angry when someone else does to us what we’ve been doing all along.

 

[Disir]

And it's no different from US foreign policy. The same tactic is used to overthrow governments in other nation-states.

It's just not as fun.

As far as I am concerned, the memes were lame as hell. I haven't seen any roll down my feed at FB. Even so, it didn't change anything. The funny thing is that it wouldn't be a problem if people just focused on issues rather than how funner it is to say Libtard and shit like that, nay?

Believe it or not that was my initial reaction. We can not get angry when someone else does to us what we’ve been doing all along.

The thing that pisses me off is that if you were born and raided in the US and attended public schools and especially if you attended college then you are aware of how pitting one side against another was used at various periods of time to benefit the upper classes. So, it isn't like anyone has any excuses.

 

[AsianTrumpSupporter]

 

[Crixus]

This is going to be long, and there is literally no way to make it shorter. I’m sorry.

It’s taken a while for the picture to make sense regarding the Russian actions during the election. There were several problems with every scenario put forth. They did not match the information, they just didn’t make sense.

To cover a couple of these, start with the favorite of the Never Trump folks. That Trump worked some sort of secret deal to get elected President with the Russians. This supposedly happened when Trump was the joke of the campaign. When his candidacy was commented on with laughter. I could include the same old video with the experts laughing as they swear that Trump will never be President. But why? We’ve seen it all before. It didn’t make sense. The Russians would not expend money and effort to get Gluefactory Reject to the Kentucky Derby. Getting behind Trump when they supposedly did would be the same as betting long money a year before that Gluefactory Reject would win the Derby. It was insane.

The next problem, was the hacked emails. The argument that this was always part of the plan. If the DNC had been honest, then hacking the emails would have been a waste of time. The same with Podesta of Hillary’s campaign. First, getting access should have been nearly impossible. Second, there shouldn’t have been anything worth getting. Why would a burglar break into a house, and try to break into a nearly impenetrable safe to steal costume jewelry?

The next thing that didn’t fit any of the narratives was the undeniable fact that Hillary had just as long of a history with the Russians as Trump and his associates. Bill’s famous speech, the Uranium deal, all of it. Hillary’s history is the reason why I said I would not vote for her the day before she announced.

None of the explanations to date have included all the information, none of them have been able to explain the obvious problems. Now, I think the picture is starting to clear. It didn’t matter who won.

First, you have to remember that the Russians are actually pretty smart. They aren’t idiots. They aren’t morons. They aren’t buffoons. They are savvy and they are clever. The reactive armor systems that they use are brilliant. They actually have better tanks than we do because of it. Yes, I mean just that. Their tanks are superior to ours. Perhaps we can start a thread in the Military section and I’ll explain why, but for now, just accept that their tanks are pretty much awesome.

These are not backwards people, they are smart, and they are famous for bringing out deep thinking individuals.

Now, what brought the picture into focus? Two of the last pieces of information. First, The Hill reported this. Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook

Then I read about Facebook and Google testifying on the Hill. Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

The ads that were put out were designed to crank up debate, and strong emotions, on both sides of the aisle during the campaign. The only reason for that is to make the divide between right and left as wide as possible. To focus on our differences, to pit one brother against another.

No sooner was Trump elected, than the focus shifted, the effort shifted to further delegitimize Trump. To drive the divisions deep, and wide.

Now, this is a Russian type of plan. It is exactly the kind of plan they used during the Second World War that destroyed the German Army. It is exactly the kind of plan they used to drive the West back. No matter what you do, you lose.

When I was being trained as a Combat Engineer, I was taught to plan not only on how to ambush the enemy, but how to cut off their escape routes. We called this effort using land mines as a Break or Relay. No matter which way they turned, they died. No matter what they did, they died. My understanding was that we learned it in Vietnam. It took patience, and experience, and intelligence to design those kinds of ambushes. Where a few people could take out a much larger enemy force by being smart.

This is starting to look like a classic ambush of that sort. No matter who we elected, we lost. Remember Hillary was the front runner. The odds of her becoming President were above 80%. The idea that a year before, the Russians saw a way to upset this is ridiculous. The Russians rarely bet on a long shot. Betting on Trump when he was polling at about 2% against Hillary’s 40% is just insane.

But the Russians wanted revenge. Revenge over what we had done to them. Yes, we started it. We ginned up the war in Syria. That by the way is undeniable, and please don’t make me walk you through that again. Hillary was a major force behind it. When it failed, there are many who believe that the CIA ginned up the RW revolution in the Ukraine that caused the Russians to use the soft takeover to secure their interests in the Crimean Peninsula. In both cases, a Naval Base was threatened.

So sewing discord in the ones threatening you is a smart move. Again, it didn’t matter who won, we lost.

Let’s say that Hillary won. Then the part that had not elected her would be shouting and screaming and it would be that she was “Not my President”. Remember, this was the expected outcome. That we would have Hillary as President with a Republican controlled House by a wide margin, and probably Republican Senate. At least two more years, probably four, of Executive Action President with nothing getting through Congress.

No matter who won, we lost. The divide between the two camps would be wider than ever, and the international tensions coupled with domestic difficulties would hamstring anyone.

Even now, we are playing the game the Russians set into motion. Let’s say Trump is impeached, or forced to resign. Then we have Pence. So nothing gained, and the disgust and dissatisfaction with the Government increases. Pence resignes, and we have Ryan. The dissatisfaction increases. Perhaps the Democrats win, but they win a nation teetering on the brink of a civil war. No way to unify, no way to bring the two sides together. But unification isn’t even a goal of either side. They both want the other side destroyed, demolished, and utterly defeated. The left wants the right to be thrown from Government, discredited, and even labeled as traitors. The insanity of race relations has gotten so far from the inspiring words of Dr. King that we are on the verge of a Race War. The Right wants the Socialist Left to be slaughtered in the streets.

We may be headed into another war with Russia, and we’ve already lost.

Did you learn every lesson about ambushes? My grmps told us story's about being in ambushes. They are not complicated at all. Matter of fact, they are the simplest way of leveling a playing field fast. Think of it like a fidt fight. The idea being in most cases it kill and maim just a few, then turn and run. Tsun Tsu did not invent this. This is how humans have done it since we have gone to war. Now I agree about the Russians. Putin is going nowhere, he knows all he has to do is wait four years and see what happens. He studied the terrain and saw an oppertunity and took it. No brain surgery there at all. Only one way out of an ambush. You gotta fight your way out. One thing for sure, Russia scored a huge hit on us.

 

[iceberg]

This is going to be long, and there is literally no way to make it shorter. I’m sorry.

It’s taken a while for the picture to make sense regarding the Russian actions during the election. There were several problems with every scenario put forth. They did not match the information, they just didn’t make sense.

To cover a couple of these, start with the favorite of the Never Trump folks. That Trump worked some sort of secret deal to get elected President with the Russians. This supposedly happened when Trump was the joke of the campaign. When his candidacy was commented on with laughter. I could include the same old video with the experts laughing as they swear that Trump will never be President. But why? We’ve seen it all before. It didn’t make sense. The Russians would not expend money and effort to get Gluefactory Reject to the Kentucky Derby. Getting behind Trump when they supposedly did would be the same as betting long money a year before that Gluefactory Reject would win the Derby. It was insane.

The next problem, was the hacked emails. The argument that this was always part of the plan. If the DNC had been honest, then hacking the emails would have been a waste of time. The same with Podesta of Hillary’s campaign. First, getting access should have been nearly impossible. Second, there shouldn’t have been anything worth getting. Why would a burglar break into a house, and try to break into a nearly impenetrable safe to steal costume jewelry?

The next thing that didn’t fit any of the narratives was the undeniable fact that Hillary had just as long of a history with the Russians as Trump and his associates. Bill’s famous speech, the Uranium deal, all of it. Hillary’s history is the reason why I said I would not vote for her the day before she announced.

None of the explanations to date have included all the information, none of them have been able to explain the obvious problems. Now, I think the picture is starting to clear. It didn’t matter who won.

First, you have to remember that the Russians are actually pretty smart. They aren’t idiots. They aren’t morons. They aren’t buffoons. They are savvy and they are clever. The reactive armor systems that they use are brilliant. They actually have better tanks than we do because of it. Yes, I mean just that. Their tanks are superior to ours. Perhaps we can start a thread in the Military section and I’ll explain why, but for now, just accept that their tanks are pretty much awesome.

These are not backwards people, they are smart, and they are famous for bringing out deep thinking individuals.

Now, what brought the picture into focus? Two of the last pieces of information. First, The Hill reported this. Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook

Then I read about Facebook and Google testifying on the Hill. Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

The ads that were put out were designed to crank up debate, and strong emotions, on both sides of the aisle during the campaign. The only reason for that is to make the divide between right and left as wide as possible. To focus on our differences, to pit one brother against another.

No sooner was Trump elected, than the focus shifted, the effort shifted to further delegitimize Trump. To drive the divisions deep, and wide.

Now, this is a Russian type of plan. It is exactly the kind of plan they used during the Second World War that destroyed the German Army. It is exactly the kind of plan they used to drive the West back. No matter what you do, you lose.

When I was being trained as a Combat Engineer, I was taught to plan not only on how to ambush the enemy, but how to cut off their escape routes. We called this effort using land mines as a Break or Relay. No matter which way they turned, they died. No matter what they did, they died. My understanding was that we learned it in Vietnam. It took patience, and experience, and intelligence to design those kinds of ambushes. Where a few people could take out a much larger enemy force by being smart.

This is starting to look like a classic ambush of that sort. No matter who we elected, we lost. Remember Hillary was the front runner. The odds of her becoming President were above 80%. The idea that a year before, the Russians saw a way to upset this is ridiculous. The Russians rarely bet on a long shot. Betting on Trump when he was polling at about 2% against Hillary’s 40% is just insane.

But the Russians wanted revenge. Revenge over what we had done to them. Yes, we started it. We ginned up the war in Syria. That by the way is undeniable, and please don’t make me walk you through that again. Hillary was a major force behind it. When it failed, there are many who believe that the CIA ginned up the RW revolution in the Ukraine that caused the Russians to use the soft takeover to secure their interests in the Crimean Peninsula. In both cases, a Naval Base was threatened.

So sewing discord in the ones threatening you is a smart move. Again, it didn’t matter who won, we lost.

Let’s say that Hillary won. Then the part that had not elected her would be shouting and screaming and it would be that she was “Not my President”. Remember, this was the expected outcome. That we would have Hillary as President with a Republican controlled House by a wide margin, and probably Republican Senate. At least two more years, probably four, of Executive Action President with nothing getting through Congress.

No matter who won, we lost. The divide between the two camps would be wider than ever, and the international tensions coupled with domestic difficulties would hamstring anyone.

Even now, we are playing the game the Russians set into motion. Let’s say Trump is impeached, or forced to resign. Then we have Pence. So nothing gained, and the disgust and dissatisfaction with the Government increases. Pence resignes, and we have Ryan. The dissatisfaction increases. Perhaps the Democrats win, but they win a nation teetering on the brink of a civil war. No way to unify, no way to bring the two sides together. But unification isn’t even a goal of either side. They both want the other side destroyed, demolished, and utterly defeated. The left wants the right to be thrown from Government, discredited, and even labeled as traitors. The insanity of race relations has gotten so far from the inspiring words of Dr. King that we are on the verge of a Race War. The Right wants the Socialist Left to be slaughtered in the streets.

We may be headed into another war with Russia, and we’ve already lost.

i'd say we're behind. but i don't see a war on the horizon anyway. their leadership isn't fragmented like ours is and as far as i know they don't have their internal feuds that people think will spark a civil war any day now.

i don't doubt russia was jacking with us. i don't doubt we do it also. this is more like a game both sides play and we never see til one side choose to show the world LOOK - RUSSIANS!!!

who did that and why? i don't care what they told me, ignore them and look at actions, not listen to words. its funny we bitch at politicians for lying all the time right up until they tell us what we want to hear. so, who told us to look and why?

then read some of this:
The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries
The U.S. has a long history of attempting to influence presidential elections in other countries – it’s done so as many as 81 times between 1946 and 2000, according to a database amassed by political scientist Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University.

That number doesn’t include military coups and regime change efforts following the election of candidates the U.S. didn’t like, notably those in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Nor does it include general assistance with the electoral process, such as election monitoring.
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so even if they did something, i seriously doubt it was as much as we're being told. too much to gain by the DNC in a time of LOOK AWAY on their part. if we really want to get past all this we all have to look at ourselves and what we support with our views and allow with our actions. and given we can't trust the media OR politicians, then i don't put RUSSIA up there as a huge issue or doing any more or less than they've ever done. however, if hillary paid them for dirt, no idea if this was normal. guess we'll find out as she starts throwing anyone and everyone under that bus that seriously needs a new suspension these days.

now it's time to go fix a bunch of shit that doesn't need fixing. things like facebook advertising rules will now come into play. who cares, no one reads the ads on facebook anyway. and as long as they keep sending me PAY $720 TO BOOST THIS POST NOW!!! i'll keep looking and hoping for alternatives to come around soon. hell make a new facebook that imports your old facebook and uses the same login. wa-la. viola. whatever.

but facebook is getting way too big for itself and in the end it's nothing more than an RSS feed on steroids. just takes a lot to get a culture shift. if myspace had any sense they'd have not lost out to facebook but people tire of the bullshit and move along when something else is there that at least seems to not be where we were. facebook is in that role now and if they pick a side with their actions and business decisions, the other side will leave.

with trump as president there will be no "meet in the middle" and for that i hope he only lasts 4 years. but if the left keeps up with their TRUMP MUST GO CAUSE WE SAY SO then i want him there 8 and growing up together will just take a little longer. we're living through the effects of telling our children they don't have to work hard to win and while that's certainly not the case for all of the younger generation, is it their stigma to overcome.

russia is just fucking with us cause they can troll us hard right now and we eat that shit up. we need to quit reacting all the time and get back to thinking more.

back in my college years i always said 90% of the people only think 10% of the time. i miss the days we were a more cerebral country.

 

[SavannahMann]

This is going to be long, and there is literally no way to make it shorter. I’m sorry.

It’s taken a while for the picture to make sense regarding the Russian actions during the election. There were several problems with every scenario put forth. They did not match the information, they just didn’t make sense.

To cover a couple of these, start with the favorite of the Never Trump folks. That Trump worked some sort of secret deal to get elected President with the Russians. This supposedly happened when Trump was the joke of the campaign. When his candidacy was commented on with laughter. I could include the same old video with the experts laughing as they swear that Trump will never be President. But why? We’ve seen it all before. It didn’t make sense. The Russians would not expend money and effort to get Gluefactory Reject to the Kentucky Derby. Getting behind Trump when they supposedly did would be the same as betting long money a year before that Gluefactory Reject would win the Derby. It was insane.

The next problem, was the hacked emails. The argument that this was always part of the plan. If the DNC had been honest, then hacking the emails would have been a waste of time. The same with Podesta of Hillary’s campaign. First, getting access should have been nearly impossible. Second, there shouldn’t have been anything worth getting. Why would a burglar break into a house, and try to break into a nearly impenetrable safe to steal costume jewelry?

The next thing that didn’t fit any of the narratives was the undeniable fact that Hillary had just as long of a history with the Russians as Trump and his associates. Bill’s famous speech, the Uranium deal, all of it. Hillary’s history is the reason why I said I would not vote for her the day before she announced.

None of the explanations to date have included all the information, none of them have been able to explain the obvious problems. Now, I think the picture is starting to clear. It didn’t matter who won.

First, you have to remember that the Russians are actually pretty smart. They aren’t idiots. They aren’t morons. They aren’t buffoons. They are savvy and they are clever. The reactive armor systems that they use are brilliant. They actually have better tanks than we do because of it. Yes, I mean just that. Their tanks are superior to ours. Perhaps we can start a thread in the Military section and I’ll explain why, but for now, just accept that their tanks are pretty much awesome.

These are not backwards people, they are smart, and they are famous for bringing out deep thinking individuals.

Now, what brought the picture into focus? Two of the last pieces of information. First, The Hill reported this. Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook

Then I read about Facebook and Google testifying on the Hill. Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election

The ads that were put out were designed to crank up debate, and strong emotions, on both sides of the aisle during the campaign. The only reason for that is to make the divide between right and left as wide as possible. To focus on our differences, to pit one brother against another.

No sooner was Trump elected, than the focus shifted, the effort shifted to further delegitimize Trump. To drive the divisions deep, and wide.

Now, this is a Russian type of plan. It is exactly the kind of plan they used during the Second World War that destroyed the German Army. It is exactly the kind of plan they used to drive the West back. No matter what you do, you lose.

When I was being trained as a Combat Engineer, I was taught to plan not only on how to ambush the enemy, but how to cut off their escape routes. We called this effort using land mines as a Break or Relay. No matter which way they turned, they died. No matter what they did, they died. My understanding was that we learned it in Vietnam. It took patience, and experience, and intelligence to design those kinds of ambushes. Where a few people could take out a much larger enemy force by being smart.

This is starting to look like a classic ambush of that sort. No matter who we elected, we lost. Remember Hillary was the front runner. The odds of her becoming President were above 80%. The idea that a year before, the Russians saw a way to upset this is ridiculous. The Russians rarely bet on a long shot. Betting on Trump when he was polling at about 2% against Hillary’s 40% is just insane.

But the Russians wanted revenge. Revenge over what we had done to them. Yes, we started it. We ginned up the war in Syria. That by the way is undeniable, and please don’t make me walk you through that again. Hillary was a major force behind it. When it failed, there are many who believe that the CIA ginned up the RW revolution in the Ukraine that caused the Russians to use the soft takeover to secure their interests in the Crimean Peninsula. In both cases, a Naval Base was threatened.

So sewing discord in the ones threatening you is a smart move. Again, it didn’t matter who won, we lost.

Let’s say that Hillary won. Then the part that had not elected her would be shouting and screaming and it would be that she was “Not my President”. Remember, this was the expected outcome. That we would have Hillary as President with a Republican controlled House by a wide margin, and probably Republican Senate. At least two more years, probably four, of Executive Action President with nothing getting through Congress.

No matter who won, we lost. The divide between the two camps would be wider than ever, and the international tensions coupled with domestic difficulties would hamstring anyone.

Even now, we are playing the game the Russians set into motion. Let’s say Trump is impeached, or forced to resign. Then we have Pence. So nothing gained, and the disgust and dissatisfaction with the Government increases. Pence resignes, and we have Ryan. The dissatisfaction increases. Perhaps the Democrats win, but they win a nation teetering on the brink of a civil war. No way to unify, no way to bring the two sides together. But unification isn’t even a goal of either side. They both want the other side destroyed, demolished, and utterly defeated. The left wants the right to be thrown from Government, discredited, and even labeled as traitors. The insanity of race relations has gotten so far from the inspiring words of Dr. King that we are on the verge of a Race War. The Right wants the Socialist Left to be slaughtered in the streets.

We may be headed into another war with Russia, and we’ve already lost.

Did you learn every lesson about ambushes? My grmps told us story's about being in ambushes. They are not complicated at all. Matter of fact, they are the simplest way of leveling a playing field fast. Think of it like a fidt fight. The idea being in most cases it kill and maim just a few, then turn and run. Tsun Tsu did not invent this. This is how humans have done it since we have gone to war. Now I agree about the Russians. Putin is going nowhere, he knows all he has to do is wait four years and see what happens. He studied the terrain and saw an oppertunity and took it. No brain surgery there at all. Only one way out of an ambush. You gotta fight your way out. One thing for sure, Russia scored a huge hit on us.

Ambushes are an art and science. If you have no personal experience in the field, watch the movie Ronin. The ambush they set up against the convoy of cars is what I am talking about. The initial attack was designed to elicit a specific response. That response is what I am talking about. When you attack, how will they respond? Will they seek cover if any is readily available? Will they run forward, backwards, or to one side or another?

The anticipation of enemy response is harder to plan than the initial attack which is what your Grandfather is talking about. It depends on terrain, training, and experience of those being attacked.

To break out of an ambush means doing what the enemy does not expect. It has to be planned ahead of time. Contingency plans if you will. There are two basic responses, near and far. For ambush means outside hand Grenade range. For that the best answer is to seek cover and pin the enemy down while your forces outside of the ambush flank the enemy. Near means inside hand Grenade range. If you take cover then, you will die as they toss grenades on you. For that the only response is charge. You will probably die, but you stand a good chance of taking some of them with you.

The SEALS had a good technique for breaking contact. A peel down the center from front to rear. This allowed the SEALS to pin the enemy down while evacuating the area from a superior force.

This is their preferred response because they did not have forces close enough to flank the enemy. Not when dealing in squad sized teams.

Ambushes are a topic you could spend your entire life learning. Sun Tzu is always a good place to start. From that Chinese General of two thousand years before you can start to understand psychology of war.

One of these days I’m going to start a thread applying the lessons from Sun Tzu to battles of history to show where he was flaunted to the sorrow of the sides involved.

Compare and contrast Guadalcanal with the Bataan Defense. In both cases the Americans were outnumbered. In one, the Philippines the officers lied to the troops and told them the Aide was coming. This was reinforcements and supplies escorted by the navy. On Guadalcanal the troops knew no help was coming. It was victory, or death. General Vandegriff followed Sun Tzu. He put his troops on Death Ground. When the troops understood that there was no retreat, their backs were to the sea. There was no surrender. There was only victory, or death. They fought harder than anyone could ask of them. They were more determined than anyone could hope. Outnumbered, out gunned, and short of supplies, they chewed up the same Japanese forces that had decimated the defenders of Bataan despite overwhelming odds. Bloody Ridge, the Japanese attacked right out of the book. Three to one advantage in numbers. They were thrown back with severe loss of life. Malnutrition, malaria, and heat sapped the strength of the Marines, but they fought because there was no alternative. Their officers did not lie to them and promise them support that was not coming.

When the troops on Bataan realized the Aide was a fantasy, and none was coming, they lost faith, and hope. The officers lied to maintain morale in the troops. That morale was shattered as the truth became undeniable. Sun Tzu would not be pleased by MacArthur’s choices.