No One Has a Right to Health Care

[Dot Com]

No One Has a Right to Health Care
by Jacob G. Hornberger February 3, 2016

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says that everyone has a right to health care. Unfortunately, none of his presidential opponents, Democrat or Republican, is going to challenge him on the point. They’re too scared that they’d lose votes by challenging a standard socialist shibboleth in America.

Sanders’ assertion only goes to show how American socialists (i.e., progressives) have warped and perverted the concept of rights within the minds of the American people. The fact is that no one has a right to health care any more than he has a right to a home, a car, food, spouse, or anything else.

The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Yes we do. Yes we should. Yes we WILL! FDR'S 2nd bill of rights needs passed!

you are correct


PoliticalChic

 

[boilermaker55]

If you were then I retract my statement to you.

Try to think past your statement and his.
You are against abortion , yet you feel it is ok for some, the product of birth, to suffer because they cannot afford healthcare.
Ponder that thought for a bit.

I find it amusing that those who support abortion are themselves the product of birth.

Pretty deep, HB. True words to ponder.

You do realize I was being sarcastic?

 

[beagle9]

Blah blah blah.....senseless defense of a senseless concept.

TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything you said, so I'll call it names instead.

Lose your job and healthcare and let's see what you say then.

That only happens because government connect your access to health care, to your employment. Get rid of the tax exemption for health care plan payments, and you can keep your health care even when you lose your job.

But liberals don't dare consider the idea of reducing the power of government this way. They'd rather see people lose their health care.

. I'm a capitalist and a free market conservative, but healthcare is something that effects us all. It can be better run and much better for all.

 

[jillian]

Its a right as long as you can pay for it.

and yet every other civilized country makes sure that it's people receive health care.

in this country people pay for it and then get canceled as soon as they need it.

If every other civilized country decided the moon was made out of cheese, it doesn't make it true.

Free health care is not a right. Free health care is a gift taken by force from someone else.

while that's all well and good.... the reality is that no one is saying the moon is made of cheese or saying anything untrue or improper.

nice false equivalency.

 

[Dot Com]

So kick it all back to private insurance companies and you send tens of thousands back to the ER for perfunctory care. Guess who ends up getting that bill? Pay now or pay later. Preventing a health problem or catching it early is always less expensive to fixing it after it's too badly broken.

Let the insurance companies decide what your care and Rx will be, based on their bottom line and profit margins. The only way they profit is to deny claims and they try to do that at every turn. So doctors try to compensate by going overboard with uneeded tests and office visits. It's a vicious circle.

^ fact proves OP didn't follow the HC debates back in 2008. Its pay now in a managed way, or pay more later for the uninsured.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't give a crap whether it is a "right". I don't care if some people think it is "moral".

Is it that you don't care about morality? or is it that you think stealing (i.e. taking the fruits of one persons labor by force against the owners will) isn't immoral?

That's the problem with our society, people think that government isn't subject to the same morality that the individuals are and then they wonder why the behavior of the miscreants in government is so damn corrupt and IMMORAL.

If the government can take your money by force and give it to someone else that it feels is more "deserving" why is it illegal (and immoral) for me to do the exact same thing?

Civilizations levy taxes on their citizens. Any tax whatsoever could be called "coercive" or "stealing". Taxes are going to happen, and the amount is up to that civilization. Those who want far lower taxes and services can do what they can do vote in those who will get it done.

Personally, I'm a capitalist and I'm greedy. And I don't like indirectly paying for mid-level, high-level or catastrophic health care services for people who have no coverage. I can either help pay for the high-level stuff or I can help pay for lower-level stuff such as preventive, foundational and diagnostic care so the high-level stuff is far less frequent, not to mention more difficult to access.

To me, allowing these people to suffer and die is simply not an option, not in this country, and I'm confident that any other decent human would feel the same.

Is it also possible to work to make our federal spending as efficient as possible, so that waste and fraud are minimized? You bet. The two are not mutually exclusive.

A healthier populace is good economics, and I'm all about economics.
.

 

[beagle9]

What do you mean WE can do better??

Since people are responsible for themselves its up to them to do better.

. Yes your responsible for yourself until someone forces your back against the wall, and expects you to die if you can't hang.

 

[Mac1958]

I wish these people would stop saying the two parties are the same. They are worlds apart.

The two parties are not same on issues, obviously.

However, many of the behaviors of their wingers are very similar and that's wildly amusing.

They'll never admit that, of course.
.

 

[NightFox]

I don't give a crap whether it is a "right". I don't care if some people think it is "moral".

Is it that you don't care about morality? or is it that you think stealing (i.e. taking the fruits of one persons labor by force against the owners will) isn't immoral?

That's the problem with our society, people think that government isn't subject to the same morality that the individuals are and then they wonder why the behavior of the miscreants in government is so damn corrupt and IMMORAL.

If the government can take your money by force and give it to someone else that it feels is more "deserving" why is it illegal (and immoral) for me to do the exact same thing?

Civilizations levy taxes on their citizens. Any tax whatsoever could be called "coercive" or "stealing", and the amount is up to that civilization.

That's not the question I asked Mac; why is it moral for a government to steal money from one citizen against his will and give it to another citizen, while it is immoral for a citizen to do that exact same thing? Levying taxes to pay for goods and/or services that are consumed by the citizenry is one thing, levying taxes to rob one citizen in order to buy the political support (vote) of another is a completely different matter.

Personally, I'm a capitalist and I'm greedy. And I don't like indirectly paying for mid-level, high-level or catastrophic health care services for people who have no coverage.
I can either help pay for the high-level stuff or I can help pay for lower-level stuff such as preventive, foundational and diagnostic care so the high-level stuff is far less frequent, not to mention more difficult to access.

Why should you (or anybody else) be forced at the point of a government gun to pay for any of it?

A healthier populace is good economics, and I'll all about economics.
.

If that's true then it shouldn't have to be done using FORCE, if it's such a good value proposition then it shouldn't be too difficult to persuade people to pay for it voluntarily, the reality is that when government gets involved it is never a good value proposition because government is corrupt and inefficient which is why it has to resort to the use of force.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Its a right as long as you can pay for it.

and yet every other civilized country makes sure that it's people receive health care.

in this country people pay for it and then get canceled as soon as they need it.

If every other civilized country decided the moon was made out of cheese, it doesn't make it true.

Free health care is not a right. Free health care is a gift taken by force from someone else.

while that's all well and good.... the reality is that no one is saying the moon is made of cheese or saying anything untrue or improper.

nice false equivalency.

What on Earth are you babbling about? False equivalency? Is that your answer to everything you can't refute?

Like I said, you must be one hell of a lawya.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't give a crap whether it is a "right". I don't care if some people think it is "moral".

Is it that you don't care about morality? or is it that you think stealing (i.e. taking the fruits of one persons labor by force against the owners will) isn't immoral?

That's the problem with our society, people think that government isn't subject to the same morality that the individuals are and then they wonder why the behavior of the miscreants in government is so damn corrupt and IMMORAL.

If the government can take your money by force and give it to someone else that it feels is more "deserving" why is it illegal (and immoral) for me to do the exact same thing?

Civilizations levy taxes on their citizens. Any tax whatsoever could be called "coercive" or "stealing", and the amount is up to that civilization.

That's not the question I asked Mac; why is it moral for a government to steal money from one citizen against his will and give it to another citizen, while it is immoral for a citizen to do that exact same thing? Levying taxes to pay for goods and/or services that are consumed by the citizenry is one thing, levying taxes to rob one citizen in order to buy the political support (vote) of another is a completely different matter.

Personally, I'm a capitalist and I'm greedy. And I don't like indirectly paying for mid-level, high-level or catastrophic health care services for people who have no coverage.
I can either help pay for the high-level stuff or I can help pay for lower-level stuff such as preventive, foundational and diagnostic care so the high-level stuff is far less frequent, not to mention more difficult to access.

Why should you (or anybody else) be forced at the point of a government gun to pay for any of it?

A healthier populace is good economics, and I'll all about economics.
.

If that's true then it shouldn't have to be done using FORCE, if it's such a good value proposition then it shouldn't be too difficult to persuade people to pay for it voluntarily, the reality is that when government gets involved it is never a good value proposition because government is corrupt and inefficient which is why it has to resort to the use of force.

I tried to answer this "stealing" and "point of a gun" and "force" stuff in the first paragraph. Civilizations choose to pool money to pay for certain services. Those civilizations also choose which services will be pooled and how much to pay for them.

In our case, we're fortunate that we can vote. And those who feel like Medicare and Medicaid are unconstitutional are certainly welcome to promote candidates who would abolish them. I'm not going to hold my breath on that. The thought of leaving millions of seniors - many of whom simply do not have the capacity to make complicated decisions any more - is quite immoral to me.

Morality is subjective. Through no doing of my own, I was fortunate enough to have been born in this amazing country. I was also born with the ability and skills to take advantage of what this country offers. Paying taxes to help those who were not seems perfectly moral to me, and I don't lose a moment of sleep over it.
,

 

[rightwinger]

Every human being has a right to medical care

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Every human being has a right to medical care

Not at somebody elses expense.

 

[Flash]

Nobody should ever have the right to use government to force somebody else to pay their bills for them.

When greedy shitheads use the government to provide them with things they are too sorry to provide for themselves then that is nothing more than state supported thievery and it is despicable.

 

[rightwinger]

Every human being has a right to medical care

Not at somebody elses expense.

Yes at someone else's expense if they can't afford it themselves

 

[rightwinger]

Nobody should ever have the right to use government to force somebody else to pay their bills for them.

When greedy shitheads use the government to provide them with things they are too sorry to provide for themselves then that is nothing more than state supported thievery and it is despicable.

It s helping people who need help and it is admirable

 

[dblack]

That citizens are the property of the state. It's the other way around.

Citizens are the state. Government of the People, by the People, for the People.

National defense is constitutional mandate. National health is vital to national defense.

Except in the case of obamacare = legalized extortion

You can put any stupid name on it you want, but it's what the People want.

Well, no, it's what some of the People want. The question is whether those who do should able to force their will on those who don't want it.

That, my friend, is called Democracy. Majority vote. Ya know?

Yep. And that is why democracy in our country is sharply limited.

 

[Claudette]

What do you mean WE can do better??

Since people are responsible for themselves its up to them to do better.

. Yes your responsible for yourself until someone forces your back against the wall, and expects you to die if you can't hang.

Excuse me while I stand over here and LMAO.

What a ridiculous post.

I don't expect anyone to do anything for me pal. I've always taken care of myself. I've always been responsible unlike the freeloaders in this country.

And we have loads of them.

 

[Claudette]

Nobody should ever have the right to use government to force somebody else to pay their bills for them.

When greedy shitheads use the government to provide them with things they are too sorry to provide for themselves then that is nothing more than state supported thievery and it is despicable.

It s helping people who need help and it is admirable

Its helping when you volunteer to help.

Its forcing you to help when your hard earned tax money is used for something it was never meant to be used for.

 

[rightwinger]

Nobody should ever have the right to use government to force somebody else to pay their bills for them.

When greedy shitheads use the government to provide them with things they are too sorry to provide for themselves then that is nothing more than state supported thievery and it is despicable.

It s helping people who need help and it is admirable

Its helping when you volunteer to help.

Its forcing you to help when your hard earned tax money is used for something it was never meant to be used for.

You volunteer to help when you become a citizen of the U.S.