Not the view you were looking for: A conservative woman's view on abortion

[Cecilie1200]

it is amazing that these same assholes who will fight tot the end to keep a serial rapist murderer alive on death row will snip the spinal cord on an unborn baby and not look back.....


Lefty, statist thugs are batshit crazy.....

Here's the most equitable solution - plant the unwanted embryo in the sperm donor.

It wasn't really necessary to demonstrate his point of "batshit crazy".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Of course zygotes have DNA. Who the hell said they didn't?

You did. The specific phrase was "a clump of cells" if I recall.

It is an accurate phrase.

Accurate meaning what? What will that so called clump become? As opposed to other "clumps" that won't become anything viable?

You people use the term "clump of cells" like it's universal to every aspect of the human body. Some cells become special things if you don't kill it. Other clumps are actually trying to kill the person they are in. You can't seem to see the difference.

In the earliest stages of development it is nothing more than a clump of cells with potential. That is it.

And once again, we see why leftists TRULY deserve the title "anti-science".

 

[Cecilie1200]

So when is a person a person?

Most agree that a fetus becomes a baby by: first, being born, and second, by being able to survive outside the womb.

A preemie can survive after birth with life support equipment. A zygote cannot.

Oh, lord, the famous lefty "science by consensus of half-educated nitwits" approach. Christ, by your standards, we'd all still believe the Earth is flat, simply because "most people agree that it looks that way from where they're standing". Talk to me about what IS, not about what is perceived by the uninformed. Contrary to popular leftist opinion, we don't vote on reality.

 

[deltex1]

I know, I know, The View is nothing more than a liberal echo chamber, but Carly Fiorina chose to jump into the lions den despite that fact. In a feature segment involving Fiorina, Whoopi Goldberg during the segment decided to ambush the former Hewlett-Packard CEO with a rather pointed question on the issue of abortion, while also questioning her Christian values..

“Are you going to run as a person who’s going to govern for everyone, or are you running on your Christian beliefs?” Goldberg asked. “Because you said some wonderful things and it made me beg the question ... if you feel that women should have the choices ... why do you think choice is not a good thing?”

Fiorina promptly flattened Goldberg with an equally pointed and scientific answer.

“Well, look abortion is obviously a very delicate subject, she replied. "I happen to believe that science is proving us right. The DNA in a zygote is the same as the DNA the day you die, we do have common ground on this issue now.”

“The majority of women, the majority of young people, the majority of Americans now think that late-term abortion for any reason at all is a problem,” Fiorina continued. “So what I say is, let’s go find that common ground.”

Who explained to Snoopy what a zygote is?

 

[Cecilie1200]

It is an accurate phrase.

In what way? We're a clump of cells at this very moment! Our entire bodies are made of cells. Yet now, as a clump of cells, we are considered as life, as human beings. But curiously, an unborn child doesn't get that distinction.

No. It doesn't. Neither do dolphins, chimpanzees or dogs even though they are far more sentient and feeling than a blastocyst.

Let me ask a couple of questions:

What do you see here? What does this fetus more closely resemble? A dog? A cat? A human being perhaps? The human features are easily distinguishable at three months as you can see here, yet you call this unborn child a "clump of cells." The child has human DNA, but you call the child a "clump of cells."

What does this resemble?

It resembles a human being at that stage of development. Probably because that's what it IS. That's what YOU looked like at that age, that's what I looked like at that age, that's what every human being who has ever lived on Earth looked like at that age.

Stop being so ageist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We play God all the time when we decide what creations will live or die for often the most frivolous reasons. Likewise, the people demanding that women must carry out an unwanted pregnancy from conception to birth falter when it comes to inacting the death penalty. Choosing life or death.

What are you trying to say....? The death of a violent criminal is not the same as sparing the life of an unborn baby. I am for the death penalty and against abortion...the thing that sets them apart is innocence. The baby has done nothing wrong, the killer has murdered someone else...is that so hard to see?

Leftists have a difficult time with discernment, because they're so busy trying to have an "open mind" that their brains have fallen out. They commonly resort to "all or nothing" arguments, or "apples to oranges" comparisons because they're completely incapable of recognizing and comprehending things like context or scale.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What does this resemble?

What does that resemble? Two cells, an embryo, a human being. To you, it's nothing more than garbage.

Don't assume you know what it is to me.

No. It doesn't. Neither do dolphins, chimpanzees or dogs even though they are far more sentient and feeling than a blastocyst.

So, you are placing the unborn of other animals in higher regard than an unborn child, then? Sick, Coyote, sick I tell you.

No. I'm placing born, existing creatures in higher regard than a blastocyst.

And if we were talking about choosing between killing one or killing the other, that might be relevant.

By the way, it always amuses me, the way you lefties run your gums, then express outrage that anyone MIGHT think your words actually express your opinions.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We play God all the time when we decide what creations will live or die for often the most frivolous reasons. Likewise, the people demanding that women must carry out an unwanted pregnancy from conception to birth falter when it comes to inacting the death penalty. Choosing life or death.

What are you trying to say....? The death of a violent criminal is not the same as sparing the life of an unborn baby. I am for the death penalty and against abortion...the thing that sets them apart is innocence. The baby has done nothing wrong, the killer has murdered someone else...is that so hard to see?

I'm saying either human life has a consistent value or it has an arbritrary value. It's clear in your mind that human life has an arbritrary value.

All human life is valuable. Not every human life has the same claim on society.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It is an accurate phrase.

In what way? We're a clump of cells at this very moment! Our entire bodies are made of cells. Yet now, as a clump of cells, we are considered as life, as human beings. But curiously, an unborn child doesn't get that distinction.

No. It doesn't. Neither do dolphins, chimpanzees or dogs even though they are far more sentient and feeling than a blastocyst.

Let me ask a couple of questions:

What do you see here? What does this fetus more closely resemble? A dog? A cat? A human being perhaps? The human features are easily distinguishable at three months as you can see here, yet you call this unborn child a "clump of cells." The child has human DNA, but you call the child a "clump of cells."

What does this resemble?

It resembles a human being at that stage of development. Probably because that's what it IS. That's what YOU looked like at that age, that's what I looked like at that age, that's what every human being who has ever lived on Earth looked like at that age.

Stop being so ageist.

Are you prepared to put women in prison for life for having abortions?

 

[Cecilie1200]

no, a baby is a human being and shouldn't be murdered.....and when the baby is born the woman can give up the baby and live her life...without killing another human being.......

What you call it is irrelevant. The idea that there is no material difference between you as you are today and a 5 day old human blastocyst is absurd.

Ahhh by your logic, what you say is irrelevant.

Your opinion is just that.
Opinions are like assholes everyone's got one and most stink.

The law defines humans as persons only when they fit the legal requirements. A fetus is not a person, 'human being' or not.

Science will prove that wrong eventually. Then you will be known as a murderer.

Science doesn't determine the concept of personhood.

Which makes it suspicious that you lefties prefer the subjective "personhood" bullshit over the science you constantly claim to be all about, and have ever since science became advanced enough to contradict your preferences.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ahhh by your logic, what you say is irrelevant.

Your opinion is just that.
Opinions are like assholes everyone's got one and most stink.

The law defines humans as persons only when they fit the legal requirements. A fetus is not a person, 'human being' or not.

Science will prove that wrong eventually. Then you will be known as a murderer.

Science doesn't determine the concept of personhood.

It will, or you one of those science deniers?

"Personhood" is a philosophical construct - it's not based on science. Science has nothing to do with it.

Which is why lefties like it so much. It's all about how you "feelz", not about what actually IS, like that pesky science crap.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Too bad the unborn child in the womb can't pull a Bruce Jenner and identify itself as a human being.

Yes, well, that's really what it comes down to. Lefties believe that reality is whatever you "feel" it is at the moment, and however you decide to define it. Bruce "feelz" that he's a woman", Rachel Dolezal "feelz" that she's really black, the pregnant woman "feelz" the baby is just a lump of tissue . . . Y'know, whatever you "feelz" at the moment becomes reality.

I've never done LSD or been a leftist, but they seem remarkably similar.

 

[Ernie S.]

Too bad the unborn child in the womb can't pull a Bruce Jenner and identify itself as a human being.

Yes, well, that's really what it comes down to. Lefties believe that reality is whatever you "feel" it is at the moment, and however you decide to define it. Bruce "feelz" that he's a woman", Rachel Dolezal "feelz" that she's really black, the pregnant woman "feelz" the baby is just a lump of tissue . . . Y'know, whatever you "feelz" at the moment becomes reality.

I've never done LSD or been a leftist, but they seem remarkably similar.

"I've never done LSD or been a leftist, but they seem remarkably similar."

I have both done LSD AND been a leftist. Interestingly, both at the same time.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Of course zygotes have DNA. Who the hell said they didn't?

You did. The specific phrase was "a clump of cells" if I recall.

No one ever said that clump of cells (which it is, by the way) didn't have DNA.

Yes, well, as we keep pointing out, YOU are a clump of cells, too . . . with a whole lot less potential and value.

Might not be an area you want to venture into.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Too bad the unborn child in the womb can't pull a Bruce Jenner and identify itself as a human being.

Yes, well, that's really what it comes down to. Lefties believe that reality is whatever you "feel" it is at the moment, and however you decide to define it. Bruce "feelz" that he's a woman", Rachel Dolezal "feelz" that she's really black, the pregnant woman "feelz" the baby is just a lump of tissue . . . Y'know, whatever you "feelz" at the moment becomes reality.

I've never done LSD or been a leftist, but they seem remarkably similar.

"I've never done LSD or been a leftist, but they seem remarkably similar."

I have both done LSD AND been a leftist. Interestingly, both at the same time.

Not at all surprising, that the two would coincide.

 

[Dragonlady]

The cold hard fact is that most women who have abortions do so because they cannot afford to have a child. More than half are married, and already have one or more children. More than half are using birth control when they got pregnant.

Conservatives are big on defending the unborn, but once the baby is a living breathing human being, they stop caring about it.

Anti-abortionists are big on saying that women shouldn't have sex if they don't want (another) child which is why they oppose abortion. It's more about women having sex for fun than it is about the unborn, who they really don't care about once they are born.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Conservatives are big on defending the unborn, but once the baby is a living breathing human being, they stop caring about it

We're already to this point of the discussion? I didn't think that particular talking point would be brought up for at least a few more pages.

Anti-abortionists are big on saying that women shouldn't have sex if they don't want (another) child which is why they oppose abortion. It's more about women having sex for fun than it is about the unborn, who they really don't care about once they are born.

I was expecting this one, though. "You don't oppose my right to put a hit on my own child because it's wrong. You just do it because you want to deny me the pleasure!" Nope, I promise. We really don't give a fuck who you fuck. We just want you to wrap it and take a pill. We're even willing to pay for your (non-murder) birth control, since you aren't.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The cold hard fact is that most women who have abortions do so because they cannot afford to have a child. More than half are married, and already have one or more children. More than half are using birth control when they got pregnant.

Conservatives are big on defending the unborn, but once the baby is a living breathing human being, they stop caring about it.

Anti-abortionists are big on saying that women shouldn't have sex if they don't want (another) child which is why they oppose abortion. It's more about women having sex for fun than it is about the unborn, who they really don't care about once they are born.

Yeah, yeah. "But we really NEED to kill babies, because it's just so much worse to have them! And, and, and . . . You're a big meanie head!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're kind of mashing things together and claiming things I've neither said nor suggested.

Funny you use that reasoning to define what is or isn't a human being.

I have not defined what is or isn't a human being.

Yes, because anything that logic- or fact-based would be completely useless to a leftist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Science will prove that wrong eventually. Then you will be known as a murderer.

Science doesn't determine the concept of personhood.

Science determines everything in the world other than life? Are you serious?

You were talking about personhood - not life. Two completely different things.

Personhood - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Personhood is the status of being a person. Defining personhood is a controversial topic in philosophy and law and is closely tied with legal and political concepts of citizenship, equality, and liberty. According to law, only a natural person or legal personality has rights, protections, privileges, responsibilities, and legal liability.[1]

So when does one become a person in your mind?

IMO its when you are born and take a breath.

And it's become painfully obvious that leftists think reality is a matter of opinion.