Nurse arrested for following hospital policy

[WinterBorn]

The nurse clearly wasn't stupid. She was professional.

If being inflexible and getting yourself arrested, after making an invalid and unnecessary argument, is professional.

She was a typical female demonstrating why women make poor leaders. Women are sticklers for following the rules, without regard for progress. Men care more about the progress than with blindly following rules. The male officer was more concerned with progress in protecting the man in the coma than with following unclear rules.

WTF? Look, once more, there are 3 ways to legally collect blood for evidence.

1) Consent from the patient.
2) A warrant
3) The patient is under arrest.


That is it. Just because a police officer stamps his feet and has a temper tantrum is not on the list.

All the officer had to do was place the patient under arrest. He didn't. Why? No cause for arrest. So no cause for forcibly drawing blood. The officer in question is trained to draw blood and would have known this.

As for the woman in a leadership position, she is obviously better qualified than the cop. She followed the rules.

 

[rightwinger]

She didn't get hysterical until she was kidnapped...at that point, she probably expected to be beaten, raped, or both.

Stupid people are impressed by hysterical behavior. Not long ago, there was a big public outcry against an airlines that literally dragged a man off a plane. The public was outraged at the airlines kicking people off "unjustly". Yet, every day people are "unjustly" kicked off of airplanes, but they don't make a scene about it so people like you don't care.

If this nurse hadn't acted hysterically after being arrested, (and unprofessionally before then, she wouldn't have gotten much public sympathy. This thread wouldn't even exist.

Sorry, I don't believe in rewarding hysterics and lawlessness.

The nurse acted professionally
She was arrested for it

She repeatedly cited the agreement between the police and hospital on what the proper procedure was

 

[WinterBorn]

So we should just let the cops do whatever they want, even if it is illegal, and sort it out later?

Sorry, we are not a police state just yet.

If a cop does whatever he wants, he should face the consequences. You advocate people doing whatever they want, without consequences. In response to that lawlessness, the police state will grow. You are an unwitting friend of the police state.

No, I do not. I advocate citizens being able to preserve the rights of people in their care, like the nurse was doing.

 

[BulletProof]

No, I do not. I advocate citizens being able to preserve the rights of people in their care, like the nurse was doing.

Ironically, she was doing just the opposite. The cop wanting the blood draw was wanting it to protect the patient.

 

[ricechickie]

No, I do not. I advocate citizens being able to preserve the rights of people in their care, like the nurse was doing.

Ironically, she was doing just the opposite. The cop wanting the blood draw was wanting it to protect the patient.

By violating his rights.

 

[BulletProof]

WTF? Look, once more, there are 3 ways to legally collect blood for evidence.

1) Consent from the patient.
2) A warrant
3) The patient is under arrest.

Once again:

Police can collect evidence in an emergency, that is when the evidence is going to disappear. And, it's not the nurse's place to lawyer the cop, let alone cite policy as a reason to resist.

 

[ricechickie]

WTF? Look, once more, there are 3 ways to legally collect blood for evidence.

1) Consent from the patient.
2) A warrant
3) The patient is under arrest.

Once again:

Police can collect evidence in an emergency, that is when the evidence is going to disappear. And, it's not the nurse's place to lawyer the cop, let alone cite policy as a reason to resist.

I guess the police department should have added that to the agreement they made with the hospital.....

It is the nurse's place to protect her patient.

 

[BulletProof]

I guess the police department should have added that to the agreement they made with the hospital.....

It is the nurse's place to protect her patient.

Whatever agreement the police may have had in the hospital's policy is not legally binding.

The nurse wasn't protecting the patient. She just wanted to blindly follow policy. It was the cop who wanted the blood draw who was trying to protect the patient.

 

[ricechickie]

I guess the police department should have added that to the agreement they made with the hospital.....

It is the nurse's place to protect her patient.

Whatever agreement the police may have had in the hospital's policy is not legally binding.

The nurse wasn't protecting the patient. She just wanted to blindly follow policy. It was the cop who wanted the blood draw who was trying to protect the patient.

If the agreement isn't legally binding, what is? The cop's whims?

She was protecting the patient from illegal search and seizure.

 

[WinterBorn]

WTF? Look, once more, there are 3 ways to legally collect blood for evidence.

1) Consent from the patient.
2) A warrant
3) The patient is under arrest.

Once again:

Police can collect evidence in an emergency, that is when the evidence is going to disappear. And, it's not the nurse's place to lawyer the cop, let alone cite policy as a reason to resist.

There is no legal precedent for collecting blood without one of the 3 conditions I listed being met. None. And there are volumes of cases that back the nurse.

The idea that a cop should be allowed to break the law, violate hospital policy, and expect to be granted immunity, is laughable.

The cop was wrong.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Oh please. The cop wasn't protecting anyone. Neither the cop nor the nurse had the authority to draw blood. Even if the nurse had drawn the blood and gotten fired there was no way that blood would have been allowed into evidence. It was illegally seized. So the cop wasn't protecting anyone. Find a relative or holder of a power of attorney to give consent or put the guy under arrest. Hysterics from the nurse was silly. Quietly be arrested so the cop could move onto the next person to refuse to draw blood. Arrest them and move onto the next.

Meanwhile the hospital should have been on the phone to the police department and a supervisor.

 

[Jarlaxle]

She didn't get hysterical until she was kidnapped...at that point, she probably expected to be beaten, raped, or both.

Stupid people are impressed by hysterical behavior. Not long ago, there was a big public outcry against an airlines that literally dragged a man off a plane. The public was outraged at the airlines kicking people off "unjustly". Yet, every day people are "unjustly" kicked off of airplanes, but they don't make a scene about it so people like you don't care.

If this nurse hadn't acted hysterically after being arrested, (and unprofessionally before then, she wouldn't have gotten much public sympathy. This thread wouldn't even exist.

Sorry, I don't believe in rewarding hysterics and lawlessness.

Describe, in detail, EXACTLY how her actions prior to her kidnapping were unprofessional. Be specific.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, I do not. I advocate citizens being able to preserve the rights of people in their care, like the nurse was doing.

Ironically, she was doing just the opposite. The cop wanting the blood draw was wanting it to protect the patient.

Then get a warrant...you know, like he was supposed to do! Takes ten minutes.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I guess the police department should have added that to the agreement they made with the hospital.....

It is the nurse's place to protect her patient.

Whatever agreement the police may have had in the hospital's policy is not legally binding.

The nurse wasn't protecting the patient. She just wanted to blindly follow policy. It was the cop who wanted the blood draw who was trying to protect the patient.

If the agreement isn't legally binding, what is? The cop's whims?

She was protecting the patient from illegal search and seizure.

Of course the nurse wasn't protecting anyone from illegal search and seizure. That's not her place anyway. She's not a legal guardian. The policy is to protect the hospital from lawsuits by patients for assault and battery. It is illegal to give an unconscious patient anything other than life saving care for which consent is presumed. There is no presumed consent for drawing blood for a DUI test.

It is amusing to see how many nonsense theories people come up with.

 

[bodecea]

WTF? Look, once more, there are 3 ways to legally collect blood for evidence.

1) Consent from the patient.
2) A warrant
3) The patient is under arrest.

Once again:

Police can collect evidence in an emergency, that is when the evidence is going to disappear. And, it's not the nurse's place to lawyer the cop, let alone cite policy as a reason to resist.

How odd for you that the city and police disagree.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

WTF? Look, once more, there are 3 ways to legally collect blood for evidence.

1) Consent from the patient.
2) A warrant
3) The patient is under arrest.

Once again:

Police can collect evidence in an emergency, that is when the evidence is going to disappear. And, it's not the nurse's place to lawyer the cop, let alone cite policy as a reason to resist.

You could look it up yourself.

While police may collect evidence based on exigent circumstances, that it might disappear, blood doesn't necessarily fall within that rule. The burden is on the officer to prove that getting a warrant was impossible. Not difficult. Not inconvenient. Impossible. Where do you see impossibility?

 

[Cecilie1200]

A nurse in Utah was arrested because she would not take blood from an unconscious patient. Apparently the hospital policy only allows drawing of blood from unconscious patients if they have given consent, if the police have a warrant, or if the patient is under arrest. The body cam video of the incident seems to show the officer involved arresting the woman out of anger and frustration, rather than because she had violated any law.

The nurse was not charged. The officer was taken off of blood draw duty. Based just on the video (and obviously, there may be important information we don't get from this video) I would think the officer needs some sort of discipline. It appears to me to be an abuse of authority.

Nurse arrested for refusing to draw blood from unconscious patient

I don't think that's just hospital policy. I'm pretty sure it's the law. I believe she could be charged with battery for drawing blood inappropriately, if the patient felt like pressing charges after he/she woke up.

 

[Montrovant]

From what I can tell, based on my reading of Missouri v McNeely, established law is that drawing blood to show BAC requires exigent circumstances. Without such circumstances, the court ruled that drawing blood without consent requires a warrant.

MvM assumes that a breathalyzer is an option, and therefor doesn't apply. The nurse also didn't cite MvM, but cited policy, which is irrelevant.

Drawing the blood of a man in a coma is not hurting anyone nor is it "obviously" illegal. Drawing blood is not criminal, as crime requires intent to harm or to break the law.

Based on the reactions from the police department, it would seem that the nurse acted in what they consider a reasonable manner.

I don't take the reaction of the police department as evidence they believe the nurse acted reasonably. I believe the police are acting according to public and political pressure, not according to their own beliefs. Also, even if there were no public or political pressure, and even if the police don't think she acted reasonably, the nurse is unlikely to have been charged.

Here are two problems with the mob justice in this issue:

1) It encourages people to be uncooperative with police, and most of the time these people will be undeniably in the wrong. We'll have more arrests, and even more police shootings.

2) It discourages good people from being cops, increasing the percent of incompetent and crooked cops. This kind of thing causes competent people to choose careers that don't involve the risk of embarrassing videos being made public nor involve the risk of a career being ended because of one easy error in judgement or error in understanding of the law.

I completely disagree with your assessment of Missouri v McNeely. I don't know why you think that everything in the ruling is contingent upon the possibility of administering a breathalyzer. Take this quote from the opinion, for example, "The question presented here is whether the natural metabolization of alcohol in the bloodstream presents a per se exigency that justifies an exception to the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement for nonconsensual blood testing in all drunk-driving cases. We conclude that it does not, and we hold, consistent with general Fourth Amendment principles, that exigency in this context must be determined case by case based on the totality of the circumstances." That does not seem to be saying that a warrant is only required when a breathalyzer is available.

It's possible a court would rule that the necessary exigent circumstances existed in this instance, but the USSC has pretty clearly said that such exigent circumstances are required when it comes to non-consensual blood testing.

Missouri v. McNeely 569 US ___ (2013)

1) You may be right about this. However, that does not change whether the order to draw blood without a warrant was legal or not.

2) You think this is going to discourage good people from becoming cops? Why, because good people don't want to be filmed doing bad things?

 

[Montrovant]

The nurse clearly wasn't stupid. She was professional.

If being inflexible and getting yourself arrested, after making an invalid and unnecessary argument, is professional.

She was a typical female demonstrating why women make poor leaders. Women are sticklers for following the rules, without regard for progress. Men care more about the progress than with blindly following rules. The male officer was more concerned with progress in protecting the man in the coma than with following unclear rules.

A "typical female," huh? Now this situation was based on the nurse being a woman?

As though your previous arguments weren't ridiculous enough....

 

[WinterBorn]

The nurse clearly wasn't stupid. She was professional.

If being inflexible and getting yourself arrested, after making an invalid and unnecessary argument, is professional.

She was a typical female demonstrating why women make poor leaders. Women are sticklers for following the rules, without regard for progress. Men care more about the progress than with blindly following rules. The male officer was more concerned with progress in protecting the man in the coma than with following unclear rules.

A "typical female," huh? Now this situation was based on the nurse being a woman?

As though your previous arguments weren't ridiculous enough....

The woman was willing to argue to protect the rights of an unconscious patient.