Obama asserts executive priviledge over fast and furious documents

[The Infidel]

For once put your political ideology aside.[/FONT]

That's actually what I'm asking you guys to do. It sounds like it was an attempt to get guns into the hands of people we thought we could trust, and apparently something went all shitty. But you still haven't proven that it was an illegal operation, or that it was something that Obama has to be held accountable for. Holder, maybe. But that again means some proof needs to be seen.

I don't think Holder should stall on disclosure. That's just making things way worse, and it gives a bad impression of what he's hiding; I'll give you that. But at the end of the day, we still actually have to see the proof before we condemn.

ATF Online - Firearms - Programs - Project Gunrunner

Project Gunrunner - Michelle Malkin - National Review Online

One whistleblower familiar with Project Gunrunner’s Phoenix offshoot, dubbed “Operation Fast and Furious,” told CBS News: “The numbers are over 2,500 on that case by the way. That’s how many guns were sold — including some 50-calibers they let walk.” The weapon used in the Mexico slaying of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agent Jaime Zapata has also been linked to Project Gunrunner surveillance operation subjects.

As investigative watchdog Republicans Sen. Charles Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa step up pressure on the administration to come clean this week about who knew what and when, Obama denied any knowledge of Project Gunrunner on Spanish-language Univision TV. He blithely allowed that “there may be a situation here in which a serious mistake was made. If that’s the case, then we’ll find out and we’ll hold someone accountable.”

 

[gallantwarrior]

If this whole scenario started with Bush as so many on the left are claiming? WHY won't they release the documents to prove thier case?

If this whole abysmal episode began with Bush, why didn't this new administration move to shut the program down?

 

[The Infidel]

Okay, so I have a couple more thoughts on this, after reading up on it a little bit.

If the ATF had been doing these "gun walking" stings since 2006, then it seems like there was a precedent for them. I'm not saying that Fast and Furious started under Bush, but gun-walking did. And I actually think it kind of makes sense. It's sort of like marked bills, except unfortunately it's with guns that can kill people.

That said, I'm no seeing where it's a breach of any laws. What laws were breached? If it's the very bureau intended to control firearms in this country, don't they have a right to conduct operations with those guns as they see fit? I'm only going on info that's out there, so maybe there IS more to it.

Next, as a Commie Hippie Liberal, you know what I want to say to all the sanctimony over "BUT PEOPLE GOT KILDED!" I want to say a big fat "Fuck you" to those people. Why? Because this is what happens when you create a culture that reveres guns. This is what happens when you make these kinds of guns available to the public. You want to REALLY make a difference? Stop making bigger and scarier assault rifles legal to purchase ANYWHERE.

But none of you gun fucks will accept that. You'll point to the 2nd Amendment and cry. Sorry folks, your outrage is a little hollow when you boner-up on guns so much.

This sounds like it was an operational fuck-up, and nothing more. The people directly involved should be taken to task, but I don't even know what the fuck that means. It's certainly not anything you can draw up impeachment papers for. I mean, it's not like Obama was sending those guns down to Central America to start a covert war...

And if he was, if it turns out this is Iran-Contra II, you will find me as one of the Liberals calling for Obama's impeachment and tossing from office. But if there's no evidence of shit like that, ya'all are making a mountain out of a fuck-up of a molehill.

Thanks for proving my point as to what the Obama regime was tryint to do....

They want FUCKS like you to cry "WE NEED TIGHTER TOUGHER GUN LAWS...!!!"

Thanks asswipe... nice work

 

[The Infidel]

Very few Americans who do not watch Fox even know what Fast and Furious is

Think about what you wrote here. It's something I can actually agree with you on.

And its a damn shame!

 

[The Infidel]

If this whole scenario started with Bush as so many on the left are claiming? WHY won't they release the documents to prove thier case?

If this whole abysmal episode began with Bush, why didn't this new administration move to shut the program down?

Because the Bush administration shut it down.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Very few Americans who do not watch Fox even know what Fast and Furious is

Think about what you wrote here. It's something I can actually agree with you on.

He was trying to be funny but a little bit of truth came out.

 

[Pheonixops]

Don't be so sure.

Anything is possible. This whole thing could be a delaying tactic so they can get their shit together at their own pace instead of Issa's pace. What's worse, having your AG held in contempt of Congress or claiming Executive Privilege, so you can get your shit together?

Seems to me that Issa has the cards. Obama and Holder know the stakes and are bluffing. They're in trouble, and they know it.

Both of these 'gentlemen' are forcing a Constitutional crisis...and for what reason?

Look, I seriously don't "have a dog in this fight", I think that the "Fast & Furious" should have been investigated. I think that BOTH sides are "playing politics" with this "Fast & Furious" and the tragedy involved. As far as I know, it was an undercover sting operation that went wrong. I don't know how many weapons were sold, I certainly don't think that they wanted to have any of our LEO's killed, I do think that they were hoping for a successful operation.

Please explain how Issa "has the cards" when the Administration just claimed "Executive privilege"? How is it a "Constitutional crisis"? Were you guys pissed off when this happened:



"Further, on June 28, 2007, Bush invoked executive privilege in response to congressional subpoenas requesting documents from former presidential counsel Harriet Miers and former political director Sara Taylor,[10] citing that:
The reason for these distinctions rests upon a bedrock presidential prerogative: for the President to perform his constitutional duties, it is imperative that he receive candid and unfettered advice and that free and open discussions and deliberations occur among his advisors and between those advisors and others within and outside the Executive Branch.

On July 9, 2007, Bush again invoked executive privilege to block a congressional subpoena requiring the testimonies of Taylor and Miers. Furthermore, White House Counsel Fred F. Fielding refused to comply with a deadline set by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee to explain its privilege claim, prove that the president personally invoked it, and provide logs of which documents were being withheld. On July 25, 2007, the House Judiciary Committee voted to cite Miers and White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten for contempt of Congress.[11][12]

On July 13, less than a week after claiming executive privilege for Miers and Taylor, Counsel Fielding effectively claimed the privilege once again, this time in relation to documents related to the 2004 death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman. In a letter to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Fielding claimed certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting “implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests” and would therefore not be turned over to the committee.[13]"

"On August 1, 2007, Bush invoked the privilege for the fourth time in little over a month, this time rejecting a subpoena for Karl Rove. The subpoena would have required the President's Senior Advisor to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee in a probe over fired federal prosecutors."
SOURCE



Were the above Executive Privileges a "Constitutional crisis"?

 

[gallantwarrior]

That whole 'Hope & Change' thing is looking real good these days. Real good.

More change that was badly needed in this country. A sane immigration policy

Nice deflection. Now, get back to the subject at hand...

 

[The T]

If this whole scenario started with Bush as so many on the left are claiming? WHY won't they release the documents to prove thier case?

If this whole abysmal episode began with Bush, why didn't this new administration move to shut the program down?

And that's the point. Holder admitted Bush had nothing to do with it.

But what about this...before today?

Rut...roh...(June 7th)

Holder admits Axelrod, White House helped Justice Dept craft Fast and Furious public relations strategy

Attorney General Eric Holder admitted on Thursday that President Barack Obama’s chief campaign strategist David Axelrod and the White House are helping the Department of Justice craft its messaging about Operation Fast and Furious.

“We [Holder, Axelrod and the White House] have certainly talked about ways in which we could deal with the interaction between the Justice Department and Congress — about ways in which we would,” Holder said in questioning before the House Judiciary Committee.

Virginia Republican Rep. Randy Forbes pressed Holder further by asking him if Axelrod, Obama’s re-election campaign and the White House were involved in crafting the DOJ’s policy for dealing with press. He said they were. “In terms of trying to get any message out that was consistent with facts and make sure it was done in an appropriate way, I’ve had conversations like that with people in the White House.”

 

[The Infidel]

Anything is possible. This whole thing could be a delaying tactic so they can get their shit together at their own pace instead of Issa's pace. What's worse, having your AG held in contempt of Congress or claiming Executive Privilege, so you can get your shit together?

Seems to me that Issa has the cards. Obama and Holder know the stakes and are bluffing. They're in trouble, and they know it.

Both of these 'gentlemen' are forcing a Constitutional crisis...and for what reason?

Look, I seriously don't "have a dog in this fight", I think that the "Fast & Furious" should have been investigated. I think that BOTH sides are "playing politics" with this "Fast & Furious" and the tragedy involved. As far as I know, it was an undercover sting operation that went wrong. I don't know how many weapons were sold, I certainly don't think that they wanted to have any of our LEO's killed, I do think that they were hoping for a successful operation.

Please explain how Issa "has the cards" when the Administration just claimed "Executive privilege"? How is it a "Constitutional crisis"? Were you guys pissed off when this happened:



"Further, on June 28, 2007, Bush invoked executive privilege in response to congressional subpoenas requesting documents from former presidential counsel Harriet Miers and former political director Sara Taylor,[10] citing that:
The reason for these distinctions rests upon a bedrock presidential prerogative: for the President to perform his constitutional duties, it is imperative that he receive candid and unfettered advice and that free and open discussions and deliberations occur among his advisors and between those advisors and others within and outside the Executive Branch.

On July 9, 2007, Bush again invoked executive privilege to block a congressional subpoena requiring the testimonies of Taylor and Miers. Furthermore, White House Counsel Fred F. Fielding refused to comply with a deadline set by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee to explain its privilege claim, prove that the president personally invoked it, and provide logs of which documents were being withheld. On July 25, 2007, the House Judiciary Committee voted to cite Miers and White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten for contempt of Congress.[11][12]

On July 13, less than a week after claiming executive privilege for Miers and Taylor, Counsel Fielding effectively claimed the privilege once again, this time in relation to documents related to the 2004 death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman. In a letter to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Fielding claimed certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting “implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests” and would therefore not be turned over to the committee.[13]"

"On August 1, 2007, Bush invoked the privilege for the fourth time in little over a month, this time rejecting a subpoena for Karl Rove. The subpoena would have required the President's Senior Advisor to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee in a probe over fired federal prosecutors."
SOURCE



Were the above Executive Privileges a "Constitutional crisis"?

But but.... he did it too!!!!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Killed in an armed assault. Do you think the Mexican Nationals from whatever drug cartel patroling the area that night would have been unarmed except for the guns the ATF let walk in?

Eric Holder and his ATF are gun runners. Under federal law, those who run guns to gangs are legally complicit as accomplices by the act of knowingly supplying weapons to known criminals.

Holder is guilty of numerous felonies, or would be if the law that governs commoners were applied to democrats.

I feel sorry for everyone who has been killed or injured by the war on
Americans who use non-government approved recreational substances.

That's nice, but you still lie and spin to protect Obama and Holder in this felonious gun running scheme.

One thing about you Boo, you're consistent. It's "party above all" in every circumstance with you. No matter what happens, no matter who gets hurt, no matter how many die, you support the party.

 

[The T]

If this whole scenario started with Bush as so many on the left are claiming? WHY won't they release the documents to prove thier case?

If this whole abysmal episode began with Bush, why didn't this new administration move to shut the program down?

Because the Bush administration shut it down.

Yep. The Mexican government couldn't keep track. Any surprise?

 

[Uncensored2008]

And that is the crux of it all.

Americans scold Mexicans for their violent ways and inability to control the cartels. Meanwhile, we provide a steady stream of legal and illegal weapons as our passion for illegal drugs fuels the market

Not "WE," rather Obama and his crooked AG.

 

[gallantwarrior]

yoiur guy started the program and HOLDER ended it.

funny that one huh?

Yes... Bush did have a program LIKE this one. But they found out right from the beginning that it wasn't going to work and they shut it down.

Your boy decided to start it back up again...so it is NOT the same as Bush. Bush knew people could end up getting killed, Obama didn't care.

I think you are REALLY scared, aren't you~
You know you're wrong and you're just not going to admit it....you'll make excuses for even a murderer.

Man i wish i could neg rep you again!

The Bush administration realized that a program like this would not curtail Mexican drug cartels. But the obama administration certainly saw the value in using a similar program to demonize American gun owners and the salesmen who serve them.

 

[Big Fitz]

Love the drudge frontpage pic of Obama blended with Nixon.

This very well is turning into his Watergate, re-election or not.

The question will be, if it does go down that path, will we see another impeachment and trial? How fast can that happen anyway?

 

[Katzndogz]

yoiur guy started the program and HOLDER ended it.

funny that one huh?

Yes... Bush did have a program LIKE this one. But they found out right from the beginning that it wasn't going to work and they shut it down.

Your boy decided to start it back up again...so it is NOT the same as Bush. Bush knew people could end up getting killed, Obama didn't care.

I think you are REALLY scared, aren't you~
You know you're wrong and you're just not going to admit it....you'll make excuses for even a murderer.

Man i wish i could neg rep you again!

The Bush administration realized that a program like this would not curtail Mexican drug cartels. But the obama administration certainly saw the value in using a similar program to demonize American gun owners and the salesmen who serve them.

There we go. That's it.

So mexicans got killed. Like rabbits they will replace themselves in a few days. The point is that this government intended that these innocent people get killed to advance one of their socialistic policies. The reason wasn't to track guns. No tracking guns took place. That was the show reason. The real reason was to demonize American gun owners and the salesmen who serve them.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Interesting in how this thread all of a sudden becomes the "your party is dying thread" when in fact it's about invoking executive privilege to cover up incompetence, malfeasance, and possibly perjury by the Attorney General and executive office. But then again, what would one expect from this group, just SOP.

Deflection can be an effective tool.

 

[Stephanie]

 

[gallantwarrior]

The media and the Obama regime are operating in unison not just in message but in strategies as well.

Obama has decided that instead of changing the law he will simply ignore the law.

The media has decided that instead of objectively reporting on this issue, they will simply ignore it.

Nothing new there. The Liberal Media is deeply corrupt. But the good thing is, most Americans now understand that. The old dinosaur Media can't get away with their lies like they used to. More & more people are calling them on their dishonesty. Justice will prevail in this case. I truly believe that. Brian Terry's death will not be in vain.

As RW said, only a minority are not paying attention to Foxnews, and presumably other, alternative news outlets.

 

[Pheonixops]

Seems to me that Issa has the cards. Obama and Holder know the stakes and are bluffing. They're in trouble, and they know it.

Both of these 'gentlemen' are forcing a Constitutional crisis...and for what reason?

Look, I seriously don't "have a dog in this fight", I think that the "Fast & Furious" should have been investigated. I think that BOTH sides are "playing politics" with this "Fast & Furious" and the tragedy involved. As far as I know, it was an undercover sting operation that went wrong. I don't know how many weapons were sold, I certainly don't think that they wanted to have any of our LEO's killed, I do think that they were hoping for a successful operation.

Please explain how Issa "has the cards" when the Administration just claimed "Executive privilege"? How is it a "Constitutional crisis"? Were you guys pissed off when this happened:



"Further, on June 28, 2007, Bush invoked executive privilege in response to congressional subpoenas requesting documents from former presidential counsel Harriet Miers and former political director Sara Taylor,[10] citing that:
The reason for these distinctions rests upon a bedrock presidential prerogative: for the President to perform his constitutional duties, it is imperative that he receive candid and unfettered advice and that free and open discussions and deliberations occur among his advisors and between those advisors and others within and outside the Executive Branch.

On July 9, 2007, Bush again invoked executive privilege to block a congressional subpoena requiring the testimonies of Taylor and Miers. Furthermore, White House Counsel Fred F. Fielding refused to comply with a deadline set by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee to explain its privilege claim, prove that the president personally invoked it, and provide logs of which documents were being withheld. On July 25, 2007, the House Judiciary Committee voted to cite Miers and White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten for contempt of Congress.[11][12]

On July 13, less than a week after claiming executive privilege for Miers and Taylor, Counsel Fielding effectively claimed the privilege once again, this time in relation to documents related to the 2004 death of Army Ranger Pat Tillman. In a letter to the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Fielding claimed certain papers relating to discussion of the friendly-fire shooting “implicate Executive Branch confidentiality interests” and would therefore not be turned over to the committee.[13]"

"On August 1, 2007, Bush invoked the privilege for the fourth time in little over a month, this time rejecting a subpoena for Karl Rove. The subpoena would have required the President's Senior Advisor to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee in a probe over fired federal prosecutors."
SOURCE



Were the above Executive Privileges a "Constitutional crisis"?

But but.... he did it too!!!!

LOL, I'm not crying, I'm just POINTING OUT FACTS. Were you outraged when the Bush Administration claimed Executive Privilege? Were Hannity and Limbaugh yelling, screaming, and complaining about it?