Obama Got It Right: Tar Sands Pipeline Would Drive Up Prices

[tinydancer]

What else were you hoping to have addressed that hasn't already been?

I posted three links and you seeed to dimiss my first link as,I assume, biased so I posted a link directly to TransCanda report which confirms my assertion that it would raise ol prices of oil in the midwest.

You cherry-picked the findings of Purvin and Gertz, the single group to have such a finding. PGI nevertheless still found the pipeline to be a good idea, as it reduces the US's reliance on foreign oil.

I thought the left wanted us to reduce our reliance on foreign oil.

Option #1 Buy foreign oil from people who call you infidel and want to behead you

Option #2 Buy oil from nice people who don't want to behead you, spend money at Disneyworld, ok we get testy and riot when we lose the Stanley Cup to you and I personally apologize for Celine Dion and Justin Bieber but we are nice and polite and have great beer.

 

[Crackerjack]

So a project that would employ thousands of people for several years for a pipeline that would ship oil to the US that we can refine rather than buying it already refined from countries that hate us at a steep premium is not good for the United States?

I think he is trying to tell us that the envirowhackos won't allow it.

No, I am telling them that the temporary jobs might not even go to Americans nor is there any plan for the oil going to America and the additional cost of oil could be a net job loss in a bad economy. Let alone the eminent domain and environmental issues.

Yes they will!!

 

[HUGGY]

I posted three links and you seeed to dimiss my first link as,I assume, biased so I posted a link directly to TransCanda report which confirms my assertion that it would raise ol prices of oil in the midwest.

It will raise the price of gasoline for the whole country. What is it about the words "finite refining capacity" that you people do not get? That pipeline oil is not coming here for our use. It will be refined in our refineries and the products sold overseas. That means less refined gas for us you dolts! "Less supply equals higher prices" ring a bell???? Anyone working on this pipeline or promoting it should be shot for treason....after a fair trial of course.

What are you talking about. Huggy you already have two Keystone pipelines. No shit.

One to Illinois and one to Oklahoma. This is all bullshit hype you've been fed. For true.

It is certainly NOT bullshit. Take a look at the "Why Is Gas So High?" thread. You need to get it out of your head that Exxon/Mobile is an "American" company.

Every tanker that leaves the Gulf of Mexico with refined gasoline costs the American consumer at the pump with artificially high prices because the refineries can only produce a certain limited amount. The notion you do not understand this simple fact astounds me.

 

[Mr. H.]

I'm trying to wrap my brain about a pipeline going to the Gulf to sell Canadian oil to China.

Ok. Now my brain really hurts. I've seen this argument before from individuals who obviously have no concept of geography.

Why would we go all the way to the Gulf to sell oil to China?

If the line isn't built? the OIL will go to China.

Damn straight it will, but the line will only have to head south a smidge and hang west for a smidge and then tankers can come to a dock in BC.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of so many on this T.

I'm on the fly making spaghetti sauce so I hope my basic figures are close off the top of my head here.

Even if the envirotwits were concerned about the aquifer in Nebraska and as you know I am a major conservationist so I was relieved when I heard Trans Canada was willing to move the line, guess what the figures were?

I stroked out because everyone was screaming about Keystone which would have gone approx 256 miles across the aquifer.

Then I find out there's already 20,000 miles of pipeline across the same aquifer.

Aye carumba. Give me a break. I'm still glad they are willing to move it, but sheesh.

And with all that pipeline crossing the aquifer, do you know what IS and has been polluting that aquifer for decades? AGRICULTURE

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/opinion/polluting-the-ogallala-aquifer.html

 

[Crackerjack]

Eminent domain is just a side issue from my original point but they aRe planning on building new pipe and it is going(as proposed) through private and public land.

And I do have thoughts on the Assasination JFK But I'll save that for another thread.

Eminent domain means that private use of a property is superceded and denied by public use.

This is a pipeline buried 20 feet under a corn field. The farmer can still grow his corn, and the pipeline company is paying the farmer for ...well...nothing.

Please build one of these free cash machines under my corn field. (Yes, I actually have a corn field)

I've been seeing crop acreage around here literally criss-crossed with trenches 20 inches deep, with stacked coils of drainage tile waiting to be buried. Drainage tile that will carry polluted runoff that eventually ends up in the Gulf of Mexico. Farmers are hypocrites.
The landowners who hold out against pipeline access are stubborn, ignorant, morons that are already so filthy rich that no amount of money will change thier minds.

Good God, I hate that type of landowner! We're trying to give you money for nothing!!

 

[percysunshine]

Eminent domain is just a side issue from my original point but they aRe planning on building new pipe and it is going(as proposed) through private and public land.

And I do have thoughts on the Assasination JFK But I'll save that for another thread.

Eminent domain means that private use of a property is superceded and denied by public use.

This is a pipeline buried 20 feet under a corn field. The farmer can still grow his corn, and the pipeline company is paying the farmer for ...well...nothing.

Please build one of these free cash machines under my corn field. (Yes, I actually have a corn field)

I've been seeing crop acreage around here literally criss-crossed with trenches 20 inches deep, with stacked coils of drainage tile waiting to be buried. Drainage tile that will carry polluted runoff that eventually ends up in the Gulf of Mexico. Farmers are hypocrites.
The landowners who hold out against pipeline access are stubborn, ignorant, morons that are already so filthy rich that no amount of money will change thier minds.

Maybe these filthy rich farmers should not drain the rain water off their fields so that the crops rot.

It is ok...I remember when I was new to this stuff.

 

[Mr. H.]

Eminent domain means that private use of a property is superceded and denied by public use.

This is a pipeline buried 20 feet under a corn field. The farmer can still grow his corn, and the pipeline company is paying the farmer for ...well...nothing.

Please build one of these free cash machines under my corn field. (Yes, I actually have a corn field)

I've been seeing crop acreage around here literally criss-crossed with trenches 20 inches deep, with stacked coils of drainage tile waiting to be buried. Drainage tile that will carry polluted runoff that eventually ends up in the Gulf of Mexico. Farmers are hypocrites.
The landowners who hold out against pipeline access are stubborn, ignorant, morons that are already so filthy rich that no amount of money will change thier minds.

Good God, I hate that type of landowner! We're trying to give you money for nothing!!

Tell me about it. I offered one gal a whopping lease bonus plus location fees, estimated her annual royalty income at $50,000 and her reply...

...wait for it (true story)

"No. We don't need the money".

Fuck me.

 

[tinydancer]

If the line isn't built? the OIL will go to China.

Damn straight it will, but the line will only have to head south a smidge and hang west for a smidge and then tankers can come to a dock in BC.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of so many on this T.

I'm on the fly making spaghetti sauce so I hope my basic figures are close off the top of my head here.

Even if the envirotwits were concerned about the aquifer in Nebraska and as you know I am a major conservationist so I was relieved when I heard Trans Canada was willing to move the line, guess what the figures were?

I stroked out because everyone was screaming about Keystone which would have gone approx 256 miles across the aquifer.

Then I find out there's already 20,000 miles of pipeline across the same aquifer.

Aye carumba. Give me a break. I'm still glad they are willing to move it, but sheesh.

And with all that pipeline crossing the aquifer, do you know what IS and has been polluting that aquifer for decades? AGRICULTURE

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/opinion/polluting-the-ogallala-aquifer.html

For true. I think I've told you before about my battles in Southern Ontario over intensive hog farms on an a very sensitive aquifer. But I don't think most people realize how much damage can be done by overspraying manure from the lagoons.

 

[Crackerjack]

If the line isn't built? the OIL will go to China.

Damn straight it will, but the line will only have to head south a smidge and hang west for a smidge and then tankers can come to a dock in BC.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of so many on this T.

I'm on the fly making spaghetti sauce so I hope my basic figures are close off the top of my head here.

Even if the envirotwits were concerned about the aquifer in Nebraska and as you know I am a major conservationist so I was relieved when I heard Trans Canada was willing to move the line, guess what the figures were?

I stroked out because everyone was screaming about Keystone which would have gone approx 256 miles across the aquifer.

Then I find out there's already 20,000 miles of pipeline across the same aquifer.

Aye carumba. Give me a break. I'm still glad they are willing to move it, but sheesh.

And with all that pipeline crossing the aquifer, do you know what IS and has been polluting that aquifer for decades? AGRICULTURE

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/opinion/polluting-the-ogallala-aquifer.html

If you ever get near the Arkansas River where it goes across Kansas, don't ever get it in your mouth or in your eyes. It's nothing but pesticides and sewage run-off from feedlots.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I think he is trying to tell us that the envirowhackos won't allow it.

No, I am telling them that the temporary jobs might not even go to Americans nor is there any plan for the oil going to America and the additional cost of oil could be a net job loss in a bad economy. Let alone the eminent domain and environmental issues.

Yes they will!!

There i nothing in writing so I guess all we have is hope for the good will of the Canadian oil companies.

 

[percysunshine]

Damn straight it will, but the line will only have to head south a smidge and hang west for a smidge and then tankers can come to a dock in BC.

I'm amazed at the ignorance of so many on this T.

I'm on the fly making spaghetti sauce so I hope my basic figures are close off the top of my head here.

Even if the envirotwits were concerned about the aquifer in Nebraska and as you know I am a major conservationist so I was relieved when I heard Trans Canada was willing to move the line, guess what the figures were?

I stroked out because everyone was screaming about Keystone which would have gone approx 256 miles across the aquifer.

Then I find out there's already 20,000 miles of pipeline across the same aquifer.

Aye carumba. Give me a break. I'm still glad they are willing to move it, but sheesh.

And with all that pipeline crossing the aquifer, do you know what IS and has been polluting that aquifer for decades? AGRICULTURE

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/opinion/polluting-the-ogallala-aquifer.html

For true. I think I've told you before about my battles in Southern Ontario over intensive hog farms on an a very sensitive aquifer. But I don't think most people realize how much damage can be done by overspraying manure from the lagoons.

Do people actually farm hogs? Or do they ranch them?

I think it is technically just ranching, except the animals have shorter legs than cattle.

 

[Crackerjack]

I've been seeing crop acreage around here literally criss-crossed with trenches 20 inches deep, with stacked coils of drainage tile waiting to be buried. Drainage tile that will carry polluted runoff that eventually ends up in the Gulf of Mexico. Farmers are hypocrites.
The landowners who hold out against pipeline access are stubborn, ignorant, morons that are already so filthy rich that no amount of money will change thier minds.

Good God, I hate that type of landowner! We're trying to give you money for nothing!!

Tell me about it. I offered one gal a whopping lease bonus plus location fees, estimated her annual royalty income at $50,000 and her reply...

...wait for it (true story)

"No. We don't need the money".

Fuck me.

I had one several years ago when I was doing oil and gas leases. We offered them 1/8th royalties, which is standard. They wanted to really stick it to Big Oil though and said they were going to hold out for 1/9th or maybe 1/10th if we really pissed 'em off.

 

[Mr. H.]

Good God, I hate that type of landowner! We're trying to give you money for nothing!!

Tell me about it. I offered one gal a whopping lease bonus plus location fees, estimated her annual royalty income at $50,000 and her reply...

...wait for it (true story)

"No. We don't need the money".

Fuck me.

I had one several years ago when I was doing oil and gas leases. We offered them 1/8th royalties, which is standard. They wanted to really stick it to Big Oil though and said they were going to hold out for 1/9th or maybe 1/10th if we really pissed 'em off.

 

[The T]

It will raise the price of gasoline for the whole country. What is it about the words "finite refining capacity" that you people do not get? That pipeline oil is not coming here for our use. It will be refined in our refineries and the products sold overseas. That means less refined gas for us you dolts! "Less supply equals higher prices" ring a bell???? Anyone working on this pipeline or promoting it should be shot for treason....after a fair trial of course.

What are you talking about. Huggy you already have two Keystone pipelines. No shit.

One to Illinois and one to Oklahoma. This is all bullshit hype you've been fed. For true.

It is certainly NOT bullshit. Take a look at the "Why Is Gas So High?" thread. You need to get it out of your head that Exxon/Mobile is an "American" company.

Every tanker that leaves the Gulf of Mexico with refined gasoline costs the American consumer at the pump with artificially high prices because the refineries can only produce a certain limited amount. The notion you do not understand this simple fact astounds me.

The prices are HIGH because of excessive taxation.

 

[Crackerjack]

No, I am telling them that the temporary jobs might not even go to Americans nor is there any plan for the oil going to America and the additional cost of oil could be a net job loss in a bad economy. Let alone the eminent domain and environmental issues.

Yes they will!!

There i nothing in writing so I guess all we have is hope for the good will of the Canadian oil companies.

My company contracts with all those companies. They hire local people. There'd be no reason at all not to hire local people. Why would you? It's cheaper to hire locals.

 

[Mr. H.]

It will raise the price of gasoline for the whole country. What is it about the words "finite refining capacity" that you people do not get? That pipeline oil is not coming here for our use. It will be refined in our refineries and the products sold overseas. That means less refined gas for us you dolts! "Less supply equals higher prices" ring a bell???? Anyone working on this pipeline or promoting it should be shot for treason....after a fair trial of course.

What are you talking about. Huggy you already have two Keystone pipelines. No shit.

One to Illinois and one to Oklahoma. This is all bullshit hype you've been fed. For true.

It is certainly NOT bullshit. Take a look at the "Why Is Gas So High?" thread. You need to get it out of your head that Exxon/Mobile is an "American" company.

Every tanker that leaves the Gulf of Mexico with refined gasoline costs the American consumer at the pump with artificially high prices because the refineries can only produce a certain limited amount. The notion you do not understand this simple fact astounds me.

Could it be that gasoline costs what it does because crude oil costs what it does?

As long as oil is priced at $100/barrel it doesn't matter if the U.S. is awash in refined products.

I'd love to buy a loaf of bread for 10 cents like I did back in college 35 years ago.
Why can't I? Why are millions of metric tons of grain EXPORTED from this country while I'm paying $1.50 for a simple loaf of bread?

 

[tinydancer]

It will raise the price of gasoline for the whole country. What is it about the words "finite refining capacity" that you people do not get? That pipeline oil is not coming here for our use. It will be refined in our refineries and the products sold overseas. That means less refined gas for us you dolts! "Less supply equals higher prices" ring a bell???? Anyone working on this pipeline or promoting it should be shot for treason....after a fair trial of course.

What are you talking about. Huggy you already have two Keystone pipelines. No shit.

One to Illinois and one to Oklahoma. This is all bullshit hype you've been fed. For true.

It is certainly NOT bullshit. Take a look at the "Why Is Gas So High?" thread. You need to get it out of your head that Exxon/Mobile is an "American" company.

Every tanker that leaves the Gulf of Mexico with refined gasoline costs the American consumer at the pump with artificially high prices because the refineries can only produce a certain limited amount. The notion you do not understand this simple fact astounds me.

Huggy. Go to this link. Then go to your government and verbally beat the shit out of your representatives.

Don't blame Exxon Mobile. Get a grip. Blame your greedy government.

The map above from API shows gasoline taxes by state (combined local, state and federal), which range from a low of 26.4 cents per gallon in Alaska to a high of of 66.1 cents per gallon in California, averaging 48.1 cents per gallon across all states.

How does that compare to oil company industry profits per gallon?
According to this post on Exxon Mobil’s Perspective Blog , “For every gallon of gasoline, diesel or finished products we manufactured and sold in the United States in the last three months of 2010, we earned a little more than 2 cents per gallon. That’s not a typo. Two cents.”
The chart below shows the difference graphically:

Gasoline Taxes Vs. Exxon Profit, Per Gallon

 

[Truthseeker420]

Yes they will!!

There i nothing in writing so I guess all we have is hope for the good will of the Canadian oil companies.

My company contracts with all those companies. They hire local people. There'd be no reason at all not to hire local people. Why would you? It's cheaper to hire locals.

I don't know, maybe the unskilled labor but skilled and tech upport is more than likely on their staff so it will likely be a mix of Canadians, Americans and Mexicans.

 

[HUGGY]

What are you talking about. Huggy you already have two Keystone pipelines. No shit.

One to Illinois and one to Oklahoma. This is all bullshit hype you've been fed. For true.

It is certainly NOT bullshit. Take a look at the "Why Is Gas So High?" thread. You need to get it out of your head that Exxon/Mobile is an "American" company.

Every tanker that leaves the Gulf of Mexico with refined gasoline costs the American consumer at the pump with artificially high prices because the refineries can only produce a certain limited amount. The notion you do not understand this simple fact astounds me.

The prices are HIGH because of excessive taxation.

Taxes are certainly a component to the cost at the pump. The difference that separates taxes is that it does not restrict supply and the revenue pays for things we need like better roads and bridges. What one has to ask is how the cost of gas is broken down and what factors are artificial and do not benefit US. The refineries are running at full capacity so if they are contracted to refine new oil that will be refined here and shipped out of the gulf to other markets THAT affects supply of domestic gasoline supply and artificially raises the price of gas. Surely you must understand this concept.

 

[Mr. H.]

Lots of Mexicans in Nebraska.
Yup.

Hey Ts420 you got me on ignore?
You've not replied to my more recent posts in this thread.