Obama looks to ban Social Security recipients from owning guns

[strollingbones]

[If people 'are unable to manage their own affairs due to "marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease” ', it would be a good thing if they didn't have access to guns. Or car keys. .

But how do you determine this incompetency? Should hiring a financial planner be the criterion?

it is determined by court action.....to declare someone incompetent you must first file with the clerk of court in the county ....then they appoint a guardian ad litum for the person in question...then there is a court hearing...the concerns of the court are the person's safety both physically and mentally....hiring a financial planner has nothing to do with it....

 

[EverCurious]

Is there any "requirement" that said SS recipient is "declared" incompetent? I didn't see one, all I saw was that it was basing it on their ability to handle their own finances... Anyone have a link to the legalese? (I'll prob. look it up after I get up, so no worries)


I'm just kind of thinking about my parents who just got on SS. My Father is a [ret] 3 star general, commander of the national guard, commander of the youth academy, commander of the Alaska missile defense, and now a volunteer police man. My Mother worked 38 years for the FAA, management for logistics. Both of them have carry permits, not only for Alaska, but for their new home state of Nevada. (Yes, they went straight from the arctic to the desert... The first year or so was amusing.)

Thing is they're wealthy so they have peeps doing all their shit for them, including an accountant/lawyer group that handles their will and us kids' inheritance, grandkids college accounts, investments and savings bonds, etc., and they pay most (if not all now that they're out of disconnected Alaska) of my parents monthly bills so my folks don't have to worry about anything - they basically send this group $X per month and everything left is play money, then the company puts x% into investing, x% into bonds, x% into the grandkids play money accounts, pays the bills, dues, and themselves of course.

I'm more concerned about my father though, he was /never/ able to balance his checkbook(s). His first wife took care of all that for him straight out of his parents house, and my mother has handled it for the past 38 or 39 years. My mom had said when she met him, in between wives, his finances were an absolute disaster and she had to pay double and triple months worth of bills; he basically didn't pay anything until the biller called him up and said hey, you owe us money. lol She used to joke that if she dies before he does he'll end up with no electricity because he doesn't even have the slightest idea who to call. Which is actually the reason they hired this group to handle everything, in case she does die (again... she had a heart attack, so technically she already died 3 times, was a real wake up call.) Anyway, honestly, if they weren't wealthy, they'd be constantly in the red from NSF fees alone, he's got his own checking account that they had to set up to take money out of my Mom's checking account if he over draws his "allowance." It's ridiculous I agree 100%, but I can assure you he's not mentally unstable, just a full on retard when it comes to finances. (and mechanic's, good grief. Oil? transmission fluid? WINDSHIELD WIPER FLUID? What is this stuff? He once put transmission fluid in the oil, oil in the washer fluid, and washer fluid in the transmission, no joke - destroyed ALL THREE vehicles engine's. *sigh* They have to take their vehicles to the dealership every 3 months cause my Mom is just as clueless... Oh, but /I/ had to know how to do /all/ of it before /I/ was allowed to have a car. They made me take a month long course on "basic car maintenance" before I could even take my permit test lol)

 

[strollingbones]

i would think to have a right taken from you....would be more than just fucking off paying bills...and that wont get a person declared incompetent...it will help but it will not be enough....seems i may be the only one here with actual experience in this.....you have to show the person cannot take care of themselves....its more than money....i think the question that sank my mother....was who you gonna call in an emergency...she may have well said ghostbusters....cause she could not say 911 with all the prompting in the world...

 

[EverCurious]

I should hope such a clarification exists, however, I have not seen such as of yet. What I have read thus far, is that it is based on financial competence, which is completely irrelevant to ones actual mental capacity, much less their gun rights. But again, I will attempt to hunt down the actual wordage after I've had some sleep.

 

[strollingbones]

from the op

One baseline for other agencies is the VA, which has been entering names into the system since the beginning. About 177,000 veterans and survivors of veterans are in the system, according to VA figures.


Ad By: MediaPlayer

The VA reports names under a category in gun control regulations known as "adjudicated as a mental defective," terminology that derives from decades-old laws. Its only criterion is whether somebody has been appointed a fiduciary.

More than half of the names on the VA list are of people 80 or older, often suffering from dementia, a reasonable criterion for prohibiting gun ownership.

But the category also includes anybody found by a "court, board, commission or other lawful authority" to be lacking "the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs" for a wide variety of reasons.

The agency's efforts have been criticized by a variety of groups.

Rosen, the Yale psychiatrist, said some veterans may avoid seeking help for mental health problems out of fear that they would be required to give up their guns.

 

[strollingbones]

the rub seems to be the way to define who this should impact.....i dont think just having a payee....should be the criteria for it...i think the person should be declared incompetent in court before their rights are taken

 

[Stephanie]

How many dementia patients have bought a gun in last five yrs? I bet this isnt even a problem

EXACTLY. and then what are they going to do if they find one who shouldn't? go send in their brown shirts, kick their door down to get their Dangerous gun from their old cold hands. this is sickening

 

[Stephanie]

wake up people

 

[Truth2Know]

the rub seems to be the way to define who this should impact.....i dont think just having a payee....should be the criteria for it...i think the person should be declared incompetent in court before their rights are taken

Once again, you are right on. The difficulty lies in trying to write legislation that covers all of the special cases. As EverCurious stated, just because his father uses an "assigned payee" for his SS benefits is no indication whatsoever that he is mentally unstable. (Just don't let his father work on your car.) Court declared incompetency seems to be a good metric to restrict gun rights for seniors and non-seniors alike.

In reality, I bet the vast majority of incompetent elders already have gun access restricted by their children/assigned payees/care givers. Just like we don't let our loved ones drive or get up on ladders if we are sure they are not capable. This being the case, I'd have to tell the advocates of this proposed legislation, thanks, but no thanks. We the People are taking care of business.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
But how do you determine this incompetency? Should hiring a financial planner be the criterion?

it is determined by court action.....to declare someone incompetent you must first file with the clerk of court in the county ....then they appoint a guardian ad litum for the person in question...then there is a court hearing...the concerns of the court are the person's safety both physically and mentally....hiring a financial planner has nothing to do with it....

And that means another giant expensive bureaucracy to protect us from people that aren't even a threat. THINK

 

[Stephanie]

[
But how do you determine this incompetency? Should hiring a financial planner be the criterion?

it is determined by court action.....to declare someone incompetent you must first file with the clerk of court in the county ....then they appoint a guardian ad litum for the person in question...then there is a court hearing...the concerns of the court are the person's safety both physically and mentally....hiring a financial planner has nothing to do with it....

And that means another giant expensive bureaucracy to protect us from people that aren't even a threat. THINK

don't forget he wants this:

 

[Ernie S.]

i would think to have a right taken from you....would be more than just fucking off paying bills...and that wont get a person declared incompetent...it will help but it will not be enough....seems i may be the only one here with actual experience in this.....you have to show the person cannot take care of themselves....its more than money....i think the question that sank my mother....was who you gonna call in an emergency...she may have well said ghostbusters....cause she could not say 911 with all the prompting in the world...

You would think so, but the way some bills are written, that is not the case.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

As a firearms collector, the firearms represent a fair amount of financial investment and thus, for any heir, they are a positive monetary inheritance if they choose to sell to a legitimate firearms dealership. As for a situation whereby I should be declared incompetent, my daughter, who resides with me possesses a firearm and concealed carry permit and thus she can assume responsibility of them and thus they could remain in the home and in the safe, then for my more lucid days, I can be carried out to the range to fire them when desired.
If you have no one, perhaps having a Trust set up so that if declared incompetent, or gun ownership by you is considered dangerous, the Trust automatically assumes custody of the weapons and the Trust could be any family member/friend. Or, if you want an organization to assume the role of Trustee, perhaps, if the organization is willing, turn them over to the Second Amendment Foundation and they might be able/willing to sell them for you and split the profit.