Obama open to name change for Washington Redskins

[Pogo]

George Preston Marshall is smiling somewhere

History of the Washington Redskins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During most this unsuccessful period, Marshall continued to refuse to integrate the team, despite pressure from The Washington Post and the federal government of the United States (a typical comment by Post writer Shirley Povich was "Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday").
"I think it is quite plain that if he wants an argument,
he is going to have a moral argument with the
president and with the administration."

Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, on
Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins On March 24, 1961, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall warned Marshall to hire black players or face federal retribution. For the first time in history, the federal government had attempted to desegregate a professional sports team.[51] Finally, under threat of civil rights legal action by the Kennedy administration, which would have prevented a segregated team from playing at the new District of Columbia Stadium, as it was owned by the U.S. Department of the Interior and thus federal government property, the Redskins became the final pro football franchise to integrate, in 1962

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

Can you believe the Redskins didn't integrate until 1962? 15 years after Jackie Robinson

"Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday"

I love writing like that.

What would the team's attitude to its name be if, just by chance, they were to field an entire team of, say, Cherokee? There's a sizeable Cherokee population still left here, not that far away... and they have their own game of, not football but more like lacrosse. It's a chaos that makes no sense at all -- which would seem to fit right in with the team's legacy, wouldn't it?

 

[Steven_R]

George Preston Marshall is smiling somewhere

History of the Washington Redskins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During most this unsuccessful period, Marshall continued to refuse to integrate the team, despite pressure from The Washington Post and the federal government of the United States (a typical comment by Post writer Shirley Povich was "Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday").
"I think it is quite plain that if he wants an argument,
he is going to have a moral argument with the
president and with the administration."

Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, on
Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins On March 24, 1961, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall warned Marshall to hire black players or face federal retribution. For the first time in history, the federal government had attempted to desegregate a professional sports team.[51] Finally, under threat of civil rights legal action by the Kennedy administration, which would have prevented a segregated team from playing at the new District of Columbia Stadium, as it was owned by the U.S. Department of the Interior and thus federal government property, the Redskins became the final pro football franchise to integrate, in 1962

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

Can you believe the Redskins didn't integrate until 1962? 15 years after Jackie Robinson

And it was still two years before they would have been forced by law. What's your point?

 

[Pogo]

^^^Another hater of free speech.

How is that hating free speech?

You're against Obama giving his opinion.

No, he's against O'bama answering a reporter's unsolicited question.

Now if somebody else got asked the same question, I doubt there'd even be a thread about it, even given the same answer.

 

[rightwinger]

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

Can you believe the Redskins didn't integrate until 1962? 15 years after Jackie Robinson

And it was still two years before they would have been forced by law. What's your point?

Redskins have a history of being racially insensitive

 

[Pogo]

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

Can you believe the Redskins didn't integrate until 1962? 15 years after Jackie Robinson

And it was still two years before they would have been forced by law. What's your point?

"Forced by law" would be over the top, since there's nothing 'illegal' about a choice of team totem. They could call the team the Washington Wetbacks if they so chose. Then again, denying the use of a stadium on federal property isn't exactly "forced by law". The choice is entirely the team's, being a matter not of law but public taste.

Here's where the issue may lie:

Usually a sports team trying to signify its character will go for an animal totem (Eagles, Falcons, Cardinals, Bears, Devil Rays, Tigers, Lions, or the strangest choice of animal totem, the "Mighty Ducks") but anthropomorphic totems are common too:

Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers (formerly Robins) for "trolley dodgers"" in Brooklyn
Houston Texans
Dallas Cowboys
Minnesota Vikings

--- but these are neutral representations; there's no inherent value judgment in Vikings or Texans. Nor even in Braves or Indians or Chiefs. There's a high school team not far from here (probably several) that call their teams Cherokees. But this, like Vikings or Texans, simply references the demographics and history of the area they call home.

A team might invoke human fantasy characters too (New York/San Francisco Giants; Pittsburgh Pirates); or even adjectival abstractions (Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics)

"Redskins" however draws specific attention to the skin, and maybe more significantly conjures up a euphemism associated with an ignorance that belongs to the days of racism*. It's not the ethnic group being referred to where the offense is taken; it's the period of time it recalls.

*I know, assuming that the "days of racism" are in the past...

There's also a certain trivialization in the loose handling of team totems:
>> Specifically, King et al. point to the prominence of FSU's (Florida State University) Chief Osceola mascot in sports culture while few sports fans know anything of his historic namesake, who was actually captured by the U.S. military under the pretense of a supposed truce negotiation during the real "Indian Wars". The real Osceola died 3 months after his capture and was decapitated postmortem. His possessions were taken as relics by U.S. soldiers, as was his head (after it was embalmed). None of this history is discernible from the pageantry and stereotypical imagery used in sports, which serves to trivialize the names and figures sports culture has appropriated. << (-- team names derived from indigenous peoples)

Thus a team totem that takes a certain historical position (as in a euphemism) rather than simply identifying a local ethnic group neutrally (e.g. Celtics, Cherokees) is inviting controversy. Representing an ethnicity neutrally is one thing, but naming a Chicago team the "Polacks" or a Seattle team the "Slanteyes" is simply going to stir some people up.


Fun fact: in the 1950s the Cincinnati Reds officially changed their name to the "Redlegs" for fear of being associated with the targets of Joe McCarthy's communist witch hunt. They reverted to "Reds" after cooler heads prevailed.

 

[Esmeralda]

^^^Another hater of free speech.

How is that hating free speech?

Duh?

LOL

 

[DigitalDrifter]

George Preston Marshall is smiling somewhere

History of the Washington Redskins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During most this unsuccessful period, Marshall continued to refuse to integrate the team, despite pressure from The Washington Post and the federal government of the United States (a typical comment by Post writer Shirley Povich was "Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday").
"I think it is quite plain that if he wants an argument,
he is going to have a moral argument with the
president and with the administration."

Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, on
Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins On March 24, 1961, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall warned Marshall to hire black players or face federal retribution. For the first time in history, the federal government had attempted to desegregate a professional sports team.[51] Finally, under threat of civil rights legal action by the Kennedy administration, which would have prevented a segregated team from playing at the new District of Columbia Stadium, as it was owned by the U.S. Department of the Interior and thus federal government property, the Redskins became the final pro football franchise to integrate, in 1962

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

So because we don't support this ridiculous PC idea of renaming the Redskins means we also would have been against integration?

I know what you're trying here, you're assuming it's progress to rename the team just as it was progress when integration came.
The latter was progress, renaming is nothing more than a feel good measure to make those in favor feel like they've accomplished something when in this case they've only fell further into the PC cesspool.

 

[Pogo]

George Preston Marshall is smiling somewhere

History of the Washington Redskins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During most this unsuccessful period, Marshall continued to refuse to integrate the team, despite pressure from The Washington Post and the federal government of the United States (a typical comment by Post writer Shirley Povich was "Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday").
"I think it is quite plain that if he wants an argument,
he is going to have a moral argument with the
president and with the administration."

Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, on
Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins On March 24, 1961, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall warned Marshall to hire black players or face federal retribution. For the first time in history, the federal government had attempted to desegregate a professional sports team.[51] Finally, under threat of civil rights legal action by the Kennedy administration, which would have prevented a segregated team from playing at the new District of Columbia Stadium, as it was owned by the U.S. Department of the Interior and thus federal government property, the Redskins became the final pro football franchise to integrate, in 1962

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

So because we don't support this ridiculous PC idea of renaming the Redskins means we also would have been against integration?

Not necessarily. But it does indicate you might carry a certain insensitivity.

 

[bodecea]

George Preston Marshall is smiling somewhere

History of the Washington Redskins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During most this unsuccessful period, Marshall continued to refuse to integrate the team, despite pressure from The Washington Post and the federal government of the United States (a typical comment by Post writer Shirley Povich was "Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday").
"I think it is quite plain that if he wants an argument,
he is going to have a moral argument with the
president and with the administration."

Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, on
Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins On March 24, 1961, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall warned Marshall to hire black players or face federal retribution. For the first time in history, the federal government had attempted to desegregate a professional sports team.[51] Finally, under threat of civil rights legal action by the Kennedy administration, which would have prevented a segregated team from playing at the new District of Columbia Stadium, as it was owned by the U.S. Department of the Interior and thus federal government property, the Redskins became the final pro football franchise to integrate, in 1962

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

So because we don't support this ridiculous PC idea of renaming the Redskins means we also would have been against integration?

I know what you're trying here, you're assuming it's progress to rename the team just as it was progress when integration came.
The latter was progress, renaming is nothing more than a feel good measure to make those in favor feel like they've accomplished something when in this case they've only fell further into the PC cesspool.

I find it interesting you getting all that from my musings.


Seems to me you've got a chip on that shoulder, Skippy.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I'm boycotting all Purdue games, due to their insensitivity to a noble profession.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm boycotting all Purdue games, due to their insensitivity to a noble profession.

I thought it was a drink with a beer chaser?

 

[Pogo]

The fatal flaw in this entire thread is the first three words of its title: "Obama open to". It's a cherrypicked interview question, entirely irrelevant to Obama's job, to which he gave an equally irrelevant-to-his-job answer. The choice of a team name has zero to do with the job of POTUS, thus it's nothing more than a personal question.

But that's not enough for the OP; he whines that the POTUS is "open to". As if what he's for or against personally has to have some stamp of approval, and if the answer is not on the approved list, then all rhetorical hell breaks loose.

See the difference between this and "PC pressure"?

Me neither.

 

[Synthaholic]

How is that hating free speech?

You're against Obama giving his opinion.

No. I'm against Obama using the bully pulpit to tell other people what to do with their property. If the issue is really that important, I'm sure Obama and Friends can come up with the money to buy the team and rename it. Why isn't that approach being taken?

Except, he didn't.

Dumbass.

 

[Pogo]

How is that hating free speech?

You're against Obama giving his opinion.

No. I'm against Obama using the bully pulpit to tell other people what to do with their property. If the issue is really that important, I'm sure Obama and Friends can come up with the money to buy the team and rename it. Why isn't that approach being taken?

Because O'bama didn't even bring it up. The interviewer and gadflies like the OP did. They're playing gullible readers like a cheap banjo.

:lunk:: :lunk:: :lunk::

How is it that an entire interview with the POTUS was done, and this off-the-cuff before-we-go question is the only part of it worthy of discussion?

 

[Asclepias]

George Preston Marshall is smiling somewhere

History of the Washington Redskins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During most this unsuccessful period, Marshall continued to refuse to integrate the team, despite pressure from The Washington Post and the federal government of the United States (a typical comment by Post writer Shirley Povich was "Jim Brown, born ineligible to play for the Redskins, integrated their end zone three times yesterday").
"I think it is quite plain that if he wants an argument,
he is going to have a moral argument with the
president and with the administration."

Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall, on
Marshall's refusal to integrate the Redskins On March 24, 1961, Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall warned Marshall to hire black players or face federal retribution. For the first time in history, the federal government had attempted to desegregate a professional sports team.[51] Finally, under threat of civil rights legal action by the Kennedy administration, which would have prevented a segregated team from playing at the new District of Columbia Stadium, as it was owned by the U.S. Department of the Interior and thus federal government property, the Redskins became the final pro football franchise to integrate, in 1962

I wonder what percentage of our esteemed RW posters would have gone all in supporting Marshall.

So because we don't support this ridiculous PC idea of renaming the Redskins means we also would have been against integration?

I know what you're trying here, you're assuming it's progress to rename the team just as it was progress when integration came.
The latter was progress, renaming is nothing more than a feel good measure to make those in favor feel like they've accomplished something when in this case they've only fell further into the PC cesspool.

What is ridiculous about not using a racially derogatory term? It is amazing to me that people have a problem with changing the name but claim others are sensitive. If its not a big deal to you then why not change it to accommodate someone that it may offend due to past historically references? Is it because you are the really sensitive one and wish to keep using the term to further make others feel bad?

 

[rightwinger]

Who could object to a jovial Chief like Wahoo?

 

[martybegan]

Who could object to a jovial Chief like Wahoo?

Its no worse than this.

 

[Asclepias]

Is that considered an Irish person or a mythical leprechaun?

Nevermind. I am officially offended. turns out they were Africans.

The Cultural Health News Blog: Irish Leprechauns Were Originally Black?

 

[martybegan]

Is that considered an Irish person or a mythical leprechaun?

Its typical of the basic irish sterotype of a fisty brawler, it even leans on the more simean portrayals of the irish from the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

I'm 1/2 irish, and this doesnt offend me, although it is culled from various Irish sterotypes.

This is a good example of it.

 

[rightwinger]

Who could object to a jovial Chief like Wahoo?

Its no worse than this.

Do the Irish object to the ND mascot?