Obama proposes $1B for science, math teachers

[Harry Dresden]

Welfare?? You trying to assert that I did not work for any compensation I got, or any benefit I got??

Dream on, asshole...

I worked more in my service time that you ever will in your entire fucking life

so do I as a State Employee....so do cops and prison guards and teachers and clerks and janitors.

Do I berate all government employees?? Nope... people work hard and many do necessary jobs to keep the government running... that is not the same though as supporting an ever growing government expanding into areas that they have no business in... that is where you see conservatives getting pissed..not that government employees actually exist

sorry Dave ....but i have been neg repped just for being one......and when they found out i was in a .....gulp....Union.....holy shit.....i never seen such language...............apparently i am a lowlife piece of shit who is sucking on the Govt.Tit.....does not have a REAL job.....should be ashamed of myself for taking it.....should be fired tomorrow...and this is all from "Conservatives/Righties" on this board.....so i cant agree with you on that.....they mind that we exist....some of them anyway....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Class size is still not as big of an issue as you think in fact some of the countries that are kicking our ass in student performance have some of the largest class sizes in the world.

Do they teach to the test?

I know two teachers who both have enormous classes and no teacher's assistants. The kids are a homogenized mix of everything from gifted to troubled. That's not just a recipe for disaster. Its also impossible for one person to control.

Class size is definitely an issue.

Bull shit.

Ask anyone who went to elementary school in the 60s and 70s if they had teacher's assistants in class.

Almost all of my elementary school classes had 30 kids and only one teacher. We didn't have teachers assistants.

AND.....you got a pretty decent Education......

 

[Flaylo]

Like unions will allow raises for some teachers and not others. Why don't we just shit can all the crappy teachers and get rid of half the administrators that will free up more than enough money to pay the good teachers a higher salary.

Cut the fucking bullshit about unions, its getting old looking for strawmen arguments to say no to investing 1 billion dollars in our children who are getting fucking dumber. Again, this is too REWARD TEACHERS BASED ON PERFORMANCE, if you do NOT PERFORM well YOU DON'T a FUCKING BONUS. Now stop boring me with all this hypothetical bullshit about unions since you are anti ALL UNIONS, good ones and bad ones to the core which makes you dishonest to the point of absurdity.

There is no such thing as a good union.

And we all know that teachers don't get paid for performance because union contracts don't allow it.

So all of a sudden you're for undermining union contracts with merit pay?

And again we don't need more money we already spend more money per pupil than countries that are kicking our ass academically and it ain't working.

Ok, all unions are bad to you, get the fuck out of here, this is the retarded ass one sided type of thinking that stinking up the whole country. If it wasn't for unions or union type activity you wouldn't have the labor laws you have now and employers would be able to run all the fuck over employees, saying that no unions are good is implying that all union members are fucktards and bad.


Money per pupil varies by STATE since the STATE and LOCAL governments mainly fund schools and don't give that private charter company bullshit because they tried that in Philly and it failed.

 

[Harry Dresden]

He didn't read that part of it, that its about rewarding teacher who produce......

do you think the teachers Union might have something to say about that?......after all.....the "sub-par" Teachers may be trying to teach as best they can......and remember...."bad teachers" are people too and should not be singled out......hey Union rules.....

Then our educational system will continue to fail. That's the cold reality.

my Union has to protect the bad workers as well as the good ones.....if they dont.....they just may get sued....if the guy pays his dues they are obligated to stand up for him too....we just had that demonstrated to us here....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Rightwingers are fucking stupid, its fiscally responsible to drop 3 billion a year into Israel but 1 billion invested in our kids is fiscally irresponsible?

i agree Flaylo.....at the same time we should not have ANY troops in Europe....or Japan....

 

[Flaylo]

do you think the teachers Union might have something to say about that?......after all.....the "sub-par" Teachers may be trying to teach as best they can......and remember...."bad teachers" are people too and should not be singled out......hey Union rules.....

Then our educational system will continue to fail. That's the cold reality.

my Union has to protect the bad workers as well as the good ones.....if they dont.....they just may get sued....if the guy pays his dues they are obligated to stand up for him too....we just had that demonstrated to us here....

I think its bullshit to say all unions are bad and need to go because of a few bad apples, I saw more than a handful fucked up NCOs in my Army career, by the dumb fucking logic of the board's anti-union peanut gallery the NCO Corps should be abolished, er no, you deal with the bad and hold their feet to the fire.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Noting but right wing complaints here.

And you wonder why we are falling behind in those subjects.

there are a lot of Left Wing complaints in California......is that different?......because they are wondering why we are falling behind in EVERY subject......why kids are getting to the 12th grade and cant even fucking read at a 4th grade level.....

If you want to charge that how about this?

1# A reward system for producing a high rate of success
2# End all free passes for students that don't meet requirements. You pass this ground or we're holding you back.
3# Fire teachers that have a poor record of success.
4# Link benefits or increase them for parents that take part in their children's life. These people have to give something back for the benefits.
5# Give more choices within education; give the student the choice to go to public or private schools on public funds. What's the difference as long as they get an education?

you have the Unions standing in your way here.....who is to say that that teacher is not doing their best?....

 

[Steelplate]

so do I as a State Employee....so do cops and prison guards and teachers and clerks and janitors.

Do I berate all government employees?? Nope... people work hard and many do necessary jobs to keep the government running... that is not the same though as supporting an ever growing government expanding into areas that they have no business in... that is where you see conservatives getting pissed..not that government employees actually exist

sorry Dave ....but i have been neg repped just for being one......and when they found out i was in a .....gulp....Union.....holy shit.....i never seen such language...............apparently i am a lowlife piece of shit who is sucking on the Govt.Tit.....does not have a REAL job.....should be ashamed of myself for taking it.....should be fired tomorrow...and this is all from "Conservatives/Righties" on this board.....so i cant agree with you on that.....they mind that we exist....some of them anyway....

yeah...I just went through shit like that on Monday night. Some douchebag even threatened to contact the Attorney General of my State because he thought I was on the job and posting.

 

[Flaylo]

Rightwingers are fucking stupid, its fiscally responsible to drop 3 billion a year into Israel but 1 billion invested in our kids is fiscally irresponsible?

i agree Flaylo.....at the same time we should not have ANY troops in Europe....or Japan....

We have troops in Europe for one strategic thing or should I say two, first, troops in Europe are drawing down and they are closing bases here, second we need troops here because they fucking Europeans have caused two world wars in the past that eventually involved the US, I'm not all for having a huge presence here, but we must have some.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The bottom line is, the interest isn't there. We can invest 10 billion dollars but how will that get American kids more interested in math and science?

get Dean and Flaylo to talk to them.....and then let them talk to the guy with the Masters Degree.....Franco.....that will convince them....

When schools start outlawing phones and iPods the kids can concentrate more, at any rate our kids are getting dumb and dumber and that blame the right and blame the left political bullshit don't fly, the kids of politicians aren't failing but they're telling us money invested in our kids is shit? Fuck outta here.

sure...and as soon as mommy and daddy complain about little Johnny not having his "Lifeline" Phone with him.....we will see who the fuck is outta here.....

 

[Flaylo]

there are a lot of Left Wing complaints in California......is that different?......because they are wondering why we are falling behind in EVERY subject......why kids are getting to the 12th grade and cant even fucking read at a 4th grade level.....

If you want to charge that how about this?

1# A reward system for producing a high rate of success
2# End all free passes for students that don't meet requirements. You pass this ground or we're holding you back.
3# Fire teachers that have a poor record of success.
4# Link benefits or increase them for parents that take part in their children's life. These people have to give something back for the benefits.
5# Give more choices within education; give the student the choice to go to public or private schools on public funds. What's the difference as long as they get an education?

you have the Unions standing in your way here.....who is to say that that teacher is not doing their best?....

Come on Harry, why are you of all people bitching about unions? For as many times as people say unions stand in the way I can personally state the number of times that employers have tried to fuck over employees, people treat these employers as being completely unbiased people who all look out for the interests of the employee all the time, you and I both know thats a crock of shit. Not every union member should be looked at as a douchebag although there are people who abuse the system.

 

[flacaltenn]

In education as in EVERY labor situation -- Unions are slow to adapt to technology and innovation.

They care more about maintaining simplistic definitions of the job that they can control -- then they do about the results.

In education-- the unions are the Prime Opposition to solving the HIGH TRACK student problem, because they are blocking on-line (Virtual Ed) classes that are developed for high-performing students. The classroom is gonna change in K-12 much like it has in colleges. It better. And the unions better find a way to adapt to modern times.. We are not in 19th century anymore.

But like I said -- teacher quality could be improved by some delicate trimming --- but THAT is not the problem. The Lower Performing could be improved TOMORROW, by making Welfare payments tied to student graduation and by requiring parents to sign Report Cards. And the Higher Performing could be helped by Virtual Ed and less "academic experimentation" in alternative ways to read and do multiplication. This latter deal has confused and frustrated a couple generations of students before being largely dropped as failures.

 

[Flaylo]

get Dean and Flaylo to talk to them.....and then let them talk to the guy with the Masters Degree.....Franco.....that will convince them....

When schools start outlawing phones and iPods the kids can concentrate more, at any rate our kids are getting dumb and dumber and that blame the right and blame the left political bullshit don't fly, the kids of politicians aren't failing but they're telling us money invested in our kids is shit? Fuck outta here.

sure...and as soon as mommy and daddy complain about little Johnny not having his "Lifeline" Phone with him.....we will see who the fuck is outta here.....

Schools are for learning, if the parents really cared they'd shut the fuck up and let these kids do schoolwork, if they think they can do a better job than teachers perhaps they should stay their ass at home and homeschool.

 

[Harry Dresden]

there are a lot of Left Wing complaints in California......is that different?......because they are wondering why we are falling behind in EVERY subject......why kids are getting to the 12th grade and cant even fucking read at a 4th grade level.....

If you want to charge that how about this?

1# A reward system for producing a high rate of success
2# End all free passes for students that don't meet requirements. You pass this ground or we're holding you back.
3# Fire teachers that have a poor record of success.
4# Link benefits or increase them for parents that take part in their children's life. These people have to give something back for the benefits.
5# Give more choices within education; give the student the choice to go to public or private schools on public funds. What's the difference as long as they get an education?

I went to a Catholic school as a teenager, classes had no more than 25 kids per class, that was the max and students were on three tracks, Tracks 1 and 2 for college prep and above average students, tracks 3 and 4 average and below average students, tracks 3 and 4 hardly had anyone after 9th grade in my graduating class. The public school 10 minutes away was shit, 34-35 students per class, violence, drugs, it was fucked up and students failed and teachers lost their motivation to want to teach, I can't blame them when there is violence and drugs in the school, yet everyone wants to pin all blame on teachers, granted some didn't give a shit and showed up for pay checks but most didn't.

so private schools are better?.....they dont put up with the shit?....you do realize a hell of a lot of "righties" here have been saying this all along....

 

[Flaylo]

If you want to charge that how about this?

1# A reward system for producing a high rate of success
2# End all free passes for students that don't meet requirements. You pass this ground or we're holding you back.
3# Fire teachers that have a poor record of success.
4# Link benefits or increase them for parents that take part in their children's life. These people have to give something back for the benefits.
5# Give more choices within education; give the student the choice to go to public or private schools on public funds. What's the difference as long as they get an education?

I went to a Catholic school as a teenager, classes had no more than 25 kids per class, that was the max and students were on three tracks, Tracks 1 and 2 for college prep and above average students, tracks 3 and 4 average and below average students, tracks 3 and 4 hardly had anyone after 9th grade in my graduating class. The public school 10 minutes away was shit, 34-35 students per class, violence, drugs, it was fucked up and students failed and teachers lost their motivation to want to teach, I can't blame them when there is violence and drugs in the school, yet everyone wants to pin all blame on teachers, granted some didn't give a shit and showed up for pay checks but most didn't.

so private schools are better?.....they dont put up with the shit?....you do realize a hell of a lot of "righties" here have been saying this all along....

No, my position is that lower class sizes and improvement in school security makes a difference, we had some useless mangy fucks who went to Catholic school with me and they got booted out.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Then our educational system will continue to fail. That's the cold reality.

my Union has to protect the bad workers as well as the good ones.....if they dont.....they just may get sued....if the guy pays his dues they are obligated to stand up for him too....we just had that demonstrated to us here....

I think its bullshit to say all unions are bad and need to go because of a few bad apples, I saw more than a handful fucked up NCOs in my Army career, by the dumb fucking logic of the board's anti-union peanut gallery the NCO Corps should be abolished, er no, you deal with the bad and hold their feet to the fire.

some Unions do seem to just take your money and run.....i talk to the 2 UPS drivers that intersect my route.....they are Teamsters....after hearing some of their stories ill take my Union any day over theirs....it seems these two guys would too....

 

[candycorn]

Also notice this money he proposes is going to union members?

the hell you little people, teachers are just more important than you

Teachers are the little people actually.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Do I berate all government employees?? Nope... people work hard and many do necessary jobs to keep the government running... that is not the same though as supporting an ever growing government expanding into areas that they have no business in... that is where you see conservatives getting pissed..not that government employees actually exist

sorry Dave ....but i have been neg repped just for being one......and when they found out i was in a .....gulp....Union.....holy shit.....i never seen such language...............apparently i am a lowlife piece of shit who is sucking on the Govt.Tit.....does not have a REAL job.....should be ashamed of myself for taking it.....should be fired tomorrow...and this is all from "Conservatives/Righties" on this board.....so i cant agree with you on that.....they mind that we exist....some of them anyway....

yeah...I just went through shit like that on Monday night. Some douchebag even threatened to contact the Attorney General of my State because he thought I was on the job and posting.

......yea i hear ya.....we all are just standing around making big bucks.....actually back in the PO before the 90's that would have been the case for the inside workers.....good thing there was no Computers back then....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Rightwingers are fucking stupid, its fiscally responsible to drop 3 billion a year into Israel but 1 billion invested in our kids is fiscally irresponsible?

i agree Flaylo.....at the same time we should not have ANY troops in Europe....or Japan....

We have troops in Europe for one strategic thing or should I say two, first, troops in Europe are drawing down and they are closing bases here, second we need troops here because they fucking Europeans have caused two world wars in the past that eventually involved the US, I'm not all for having a huge presence here, but we must have some.

some say we should stick by our only ally in the Middle East too....so what are you going to do?...

 

[candycorn]

Not one dollar of that is going to make a difference until parents get more involved in their kid's education.

Additionally a revamp of what is taught is just as important. We're teaching a lot of unimportant things to kids in school in my view.

One of the most important things we could do is begin to teach the trades once again in school. A/C / Refrigeration technology, auto body, auto mechanics, and yes, even cosmetology used to be taught to willing students who went to work right out of high school. I remember one of the "dumb" kids...he now owns an auto body shop--he may have more than one come to think of it. Not everybody is cut out for college; lets stop pretending that they are.

It's not a matter of cutting your losses or having lowered expectations; it's being realistic.

And, I would think that if you stressed the trades a wee bit more and made it the carrot that got the kid to make acceptable grades in literature, algebra, and science, the parents would take more interest. Its hard to see the benefit of spending thousands of dollars now for a career that may or may not bear fruit 5-6 years from now. If their kid could bring in $20-$30 per hour out of school at the age of 19, that is a motivation for a lot of parents.