Obama proposes $1B for science, math teachers

[freedombecki]

Obama proposes $1B for science, math teachers - Yahoo! News

We know how Repugs feel about science, lol.

Would Obama trade the $1B for science and math teachers and remove the $10 Trillion dollar Obamacare off the table?

If so: make it happen.

Obamacare will flatten us. Teaching the younger generation math skills will possibly keep them from screwing up science.

While we're negotiating, put it all in math.

We're graduating a majority of math dummies. If you don't believe me, start a small business that requires small change and give prospective employees a math test.

I had to turn down a few college graduates who couldn't pass a test to make simple change and measure in inches and one sixth of yards in my small business.

Make it all about math, and I'm sold. Then pull up the math SAT scores by 50% in 10 years to continue funding. That's the deal.

 

[Harry Dresden]

If you want to charge that how about this?

1# A reward system for producing a high rate of success
2# End all free passes for students that don't meet requirements. You pass this ground or we're holding you back.
3# Fire teachers that have a poor record of success.
4# Link benefits or increase them for parents that take part in their children's life. These people have to give something back for the benefits.
5# Give more choices within education; give the student the choice to go to public or private schools on public funds. What's the difference as long as they get an education?

you have the Unions standing in your way here.....who is to say that that teacher is not doing their best?....

Come on Harry, why are you of all people bitching about unions? For as many times as people say unions stand in the way I can personally state the number of times that employers have tried to fuck over employees, people treat these employers as being completely unbiased people who all look out for the interests of the employee all the time, you and I both know thats a crock of shit. Not every union member should be looked at as a douchebag although there are people who abuse the system.

am i bitching about Unions?.....or am i saying WHO is to say that the teacher in question is not doing the best they can do?......the Union will side with the teacher....who do you think the people doing the removing will side with?....should the teachers in that public school you talked about with the drugs and gang bangers be responsible if those kids learn absolutely nothing?....some people would consider them shitty teachers.....and want them fired....

 

[Harry Dresden]

When schools start outlawing phones and iPods the kids can concentrate more, at any rate our kids are getting dumb and dumber and that blame the right and blame the left political bullshit don't fly, the kids of politicians aren't failing but they're telling us money invested in our kids is shit? Fuck outta here.

sure...and as soon as mommy and daddy complain about little Johnny not having his "Lifeline" Phone with him.....we will see who the fuck is outta here.....

Schools are for learning, if the parents really cared they'd shut the fuck up and let these kids do schoolwork, if they think they can do a better job than teachers perhaps they should stay their ass at home and homeschool.

that's the parent of yesteryear......today they want a babysitter.....and if they think the "sitter" treated their little darling bad.....they threaten a lawsuit.....that's A LOT of today's parents.....for lack of a better word....

 

[ScienceRocks]

you have the Unions standing in your way here.....who is to say that that teacher is not doing their best?....

Come on Harry, why are you of all people bitching about unions? For as many times as people say unions stand in the way I can personally state the number of times that employers have tried to fuck over employees, people treat these employers as being completely unbiased people who all look out for the interests of the employee all the time, you and I both know thats a crock of shit. Not every union member should be looked at as a douchebag although there are people who abuse the system.

am i bitching about Unions?.....or am i saying WHO is to say that the teacher in question is not doing the best they can do?......the Union will side with the teacher....who do you think the people doing the removing will side with?....should the teachers in that public school you talked about with the drugs and gang bangers be responsible if those kids learn absolutely nothing?....some people would consider them shitty teachers.....and want them fired....

What would you suggest us to do to turn things around?

 

[candycorn]

I'm to the point of this; take 5 or 10 states in different make-ups, different parts of the country and do the following over the next 5 years.


Take:
VT and ME

MO and KY

LA and AL

UT and ID

In the first states mentioned, VT, MO, LA, UT, give these states a choice to where their parents can choose vouchers or public schools. Fund it through the federal government. Just vouchers; no other major changes to the curriculum/pay schedules, etc.. that wouldn't have been made anyway.

In the 2nd States Mentioned, ME, KY, AL, and ID make it all voucher driven.

At the end of 5 years, if the first group is better than the other 40 states, we have a solution. If the 2nd group is superior to the first group and/or the 40 other states, we have a more definite solution.

If the 40 states are kicking the other 10 state's asses, well, that would speak for itself too.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I went to a Catholic school as a teenager, classes had no more than 25 kids per class, that was the max and students were on three tracks, Tracks 1 and 2 for college prep and above average students, tracks 3 and 4 average and below average students, tracks 3 and 4 hardly had anyone after 9th grade in my graduating class. The public school 10 minutes away was shit, 34-35 students per class, violence, drugs, it was fucked up and students failed and teachers lost their motivation to want to teach, I can't blame them when there is violence and drugs in the school, yet everyone wants to pin all blame on teachers, granted some didn't give a shit and showed up for pay checks but most didn't.

so private schools are better?.....they dont put up with the shit?....you do realize a hell of a lot of "righties" here have been saying this all along....

No, my position is that lower class sizes and improvement in school security makes a difference, we had some useless mangy fucks who went to Catholic school with me and they got booted out.

and were sent over to the Public School....right?.....where they did their shit over there and were considered big bad tough guys who get kicked out of schools.....

 

[Avatar4321]

When schools start outlawing phones and iPods the kids can concentrate more, at any rate our kids are getting dumb and dumber and that blame the right and blame the left political bullshit don't fly, the kids of politicians aren't failing but they're telling us money invested in our kids is shit? Fuck outta here.

How about integrating the learning environment with the technology? Instead of books the student can simply download the learning material on their ipad, samsung, ect. Secondly, make some of the classes that are capable of doing over the "computer" able to do at home or the time of their choosing. Who's to say that we need to have an educational system that is of the 19th century?

We're already giving the choice of doing college classes over the computer. Since our children love the computer so much. Why not? Rethinking our educational system to go along with the 21st century is what we need to do.

I think they should train teachers like they trained me as a drill sergeant, I could stand there and give boring assed blocks of instruction all day and it did nothing for my soldiers except make them yawn and sleep and forget, however when I came in motivated and energetic and taught in such a away that kept the soldiers interested and very involved, they became motivated and learned fast. I believe that's part of the problem. Parents are the other part, I had at least one parent at home to help me with homework and ensure I did my homework, parents today are either single parents or come from households where both parents work, it makes it a little harder so schools have to adjust fire.

And please note, that none of the problems you outlined are things that will be fixed by throwing more money in the system.

 

[logical4u]

Obama proposes $1B for science, math teachers - Yahoo! News

We know how Repugs feel about science, lol.

He just bought the teachers' unions for the election with our tax dollars. Embrace corruption, it is who Obama is.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, my position is that lower class sizes and improvement in school security makes a difference, we had some useless mangy fucks who went to Catholic school with me and they got booted out.

Fix the culture, which is the problem, and you dont have to worry about either security or classroom sizes.

 

[bripat9643]

All we have been doing is throwing money at education and yet we fall further and further behind other countries.

Seems to me it's about time we stop throwing good money after bad at teachers etc and try something new.

Fair enough. What "new" do you propose?

Vouchers

 

[ScienceRocks]

We need to charge our system in a way that favors the students success or failure. The unions must be weaken or charged in away that they put the STUDENT AHEAD.

The STUDENT is the entire point of our educational system. Time to focus everything to focus on that.

Teachers should be judged by performance.

 

[Flaylo]

All we have been doing is throwing money at education and yet we fall further and further behind other countries.

Seems to me it's about time we stop throwing good money after bad at teachers etc and try something new.

Fair enough. What "new" do you propose?

Vouchers

That shit doesn't work, no, didn't work in Philly.

 

[Avatar4321]

We need to charge our system in a way that favors the students success or failure. The unions must be weaken or charged in away that they put the STUDENT AHEAD.

The STUDENT is the entire point of our educational system. Time to focus everything to focus on that.

Which is one of the problems, or symptoms, of our system. If focuses on teachers rather than students.

 

[Flaylo]

so private schools are better?.....they dont put up with the shit?....you do realize a hell of a lot of "righties" here have been saying this all along....

No, my position is that lower class sizes and improvement in school security makes a difference, we had some useless mangy fucks who went to Catholic school with me and they got booted out.

and were sent over to the Public School....right?.....where they did their shit over there and were considered big bad tough guys who get kicked out of schools.....

No, got sent to Sleighton farm and Glen Mills, reform schools.

 

[candycorn]

Fair enough. What "new" do you propose?

Vouchers

That shit doesn't work, no, didn't work in Philly.

Consider this:

I'm to the point of this; take 5 or 10 states in different make-ups, different parts of the country and do the following over the next 5 years.


Take:
VT and ME

MO and KY

LA and AL

UT and ID

In the first states mentioned, VT, MO, LA, UT, give these states a choice to where their parents can choose vouchers or public schools. Fund it through the federal government. Just vouchers; no other major changes to the curriculum/pay schedules, etc.. that wouldn't have been made anyway.

In the 2nd States Mentioned, ME, KY, AL, and ID make it all voucher driven.

At the end of 5 years, if the first group is better than the other 40 states, we have a solution. If the 2nd group is superior to the first group and/or the 40 other states, we have a more definite solution.

If the 40 states are kicking the other 10 state's asses, well, that would speak for itself too.

 

[Flaylo]

you have the Unions standing in your way here.....who is to say that that teacher is not doing their best?....

Come on Harry, why are you of all people bitching about unions? For as many times as people say unions stand in the way I can personally state the number of times that employers have tried to fuck over employees, people treat these employers as being completely unbiased people who all look out for the interests of the employee all the time, you and I both know thats a crock of shit. Not every union member should be looked at as a douchebag although there are people who abuse the system.

am i bitching about Unions?.....or am i saying WHO is to say that the teacher in question is not doing the best they can do?......the Union will side with the teacher....who do you think the people doing the removing will side with?....should the teachers in that public school you talked about with the drugs and gang bangers be responsible if those kids learn absolutely nothing?....some people would consider them shitty teachers.....and want them fired....

I can't blame the teachers in that situation, the school boards have to shoulder some of the blame.

 

[freedombecki]

I'm to the point of this; take 5 or 10 states in different make-ups, different parts of the country and do the following over the next 5 years.


Take:
VT and ME

MO and KY

LA and AL

UT and ID

In the first states mentioned, VT, MO, LA, UT, give these states a choice to where their parents can choose vouchers or public schools. Fund it through the federal government. Just vouchers; no other major changes to the curriculum/pay schedules, etc.. that wouldn't have been made anyway.

In the 2nd States Mentioned, ME, KY, AL, and ID make it all voucher driven.

At the end of 5 years, if the first group is better than the other 40 states, we have a solution. If the 2nd group is superior to the first group and/or the 40 other states, we have a more definite solution.

If the 40 states are kicking the other 10 state's asses, well, that would speak for itself too.

Candycorn, your idea is ok, but I have a problem with just one thing. Our math education system is not an interstate problem, it's an international problem. We should be #1. Instead, we're #23, down from being #11 several years ago, which is way down from where we were in or around 1955-1965.

Excellence in higher science is 1000% dependent on having good mathematicians. Period. Education has lost its way without excellence in mathematics in this day and age.

I have to say, Obama has this one item right, but he placed this hurting priority below priorities which will cause the nation to founder financially in the future.

With Obamacare extracting as much as the GNP in 5 years, there's nothing left for anything else that is important.

We spent a lot of money on war, and we have a lot of men and women who were wounded there that we need to take care of on a priority basis because of their sacrifices.

You'd get more bang for your buck if you took the math teachers of America, and offered them a $2,000 bonus for every 98% math score of their kids on the SAT scores. Teachers are human, and the incentive to get kids to do excellence is the only way you can throw money at a problem and get results. Unionizing teachers didn't do it, it converted them to thinking in terms of entitlement rather than excellence.

Oh, and tap the Professional Engineers Society that conducts MathCounts tests to check the results with tests of their own.

No slouching from the peanut gallery who might be tempted to ahem "fix" scores to enrich themselves. The Society of Professional Engineers won't let that happen. They are pledged to a standard, and they simply do not steer off course. And they'll fund it themselves like they do MathCounts. Additionally, they will privately fund college tuition and lifelong good jobs for the top scores.

So taxpayers won't be out $1B. It might cost a couple of million in postage and communication fees, but not a billion, and not 50 additional teachers per state either.

American students should be kicking ass on international mathematics scores.

Instead, we have a lot of students now who are the victims of entitled teachers molesting them at an alarming rate in almost every school system from coast to coast. There's too much personal shit going on in the schools and not enough reading, writing, and arithmetic.

The way to do that is to get the teachers back into excellence mode and out of entitlement mode.

That will not happen under the current administration of Marxism into every aspect of health care under Obamacare due to the expenses of making all hospitals and patients subdue to unions.

Sick people in a hospital setting must never be subjected to what Wisconsin teachers subjected children to in confronting the governor of that state a couple of years back. Getting kids to sing mean political songs in a state capitol without their parents knowledge or consent is one of the world's worst spectacles since the spectacle of Hitler's youth were used to murder minority members of society in Germany from the late 30s through 1945.

It's international test scores that tell us where we are, not interstate.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I'm to the point of this; take 5 or 10 states in different make-ups, different parts of the country and do the following over the next 5 years.


Take:
VT and ME

MO and KY

LA and AL

UT and ID

In the first states mentioned, VT, MO, LA, UT, give these states a choice to where their parents can choose vouchers or public schools. Fund it through the federal government. Just vouchers; no other major changes to the curriculum/pay schedules, etc.. that wouldn't have been made anyway.

In the 2nd States Mentioned, ME, KY, AL, and ID make it all voucher driven.

At the end of 5 years, if the first group is better than the other 40 states, we have a solution. If the 2nd group is superior to the first group and/or the 40 other states, we have a more definite solution.

If the 40 states are kicking the other 10 state's asses, well, that would speak for itself too.

Candycorn, your idea is ok, but I have a problem with just one thing. Our math education system is not an interstate problem, it's an international problem. We should be #1. Instead, we're #23, down from being #11 several years ago, which is way down from where we were in or around 1955-1965.

Excellence in higher science is 1000% dependent on having good mathematicians. Period. Education has lost its way without excellence in mathematics in this day and age.

I have to say, Obama has this one item right, but he placed this hurting priority below priorities which will cause the nation to founder financially in the future.

With Obamacare extracting as much as the GNP in 5 years, there's nothing left for anything else that is important.

We spent a lot of money on war, and we have a lot of men and women who were wounded there that we need to take care of on a priority basis because of their sacrifices.

You'd get more bang for your buck if you took the math teachers of America, and offered them a $2,000 bonus for every 98% math score of their kids on the SAT scores. Teachers are human, and the incentive to get kids to do excellence is the only way you can throw money at a problem and get results. Unionizing teachers didn't do it, it converted them to thinking in terms of entitlement rather than excellence.

Oh, and tap the Professional Engineers Society that conducts MathCounts tests to check the results with tests of their own.

No slouching from the peanut gallery who might be tempted to ahem "fix" scores to enrich themselves. The Society of Professional Engineers won't let that happen. They are pledged to a standard, and they simply do not steer off course. And they'll fund it themselves like they do MathCounts. Additionally, they will privately fund college tuition and lifelong good jobs for the top scores.

So taxpayers won't be out $1B. It might cost a couple of million in postage and communication fees, but not a billion, and not 50 additional teachers per state either.

American students should be kicking ass on international mathematics scores.

Instead, we have a lot of students now who are the victims of entitled teachers molesting them at an alarming rate in almost every school system from coast to coast. There's too much personal shit going on in the schools and not enough reading, writing, and arithmetic.

The way to do that is to get the teachers back into excellence mode and out of entitlement mode.

That will not happen under the current administration of Marxism into every aspect of health care under Obamacare due to the expenses of making all hospitals and patients subdue to unions.

Sick people in a hospital setting must never be subjected to what Wisconsin teachers subjected children to in confronting the governor of that state a couple of years back. Getting kids to sing mean political songs in a state capitol without their parents knowledge or consent is one of the world's worst spectacles since the spectacle of Hitler's youth were used to murder minority members of society in Germany from the late 30s through 1945.

It's international test scores that tell us where we are, not interstate.

We need to remake the system in favor of the students advancement. Secondly, we're not the same country as we were in 1955 for one good reason. Not going to say it, but there's no running away from it now. Simply are they capable of performing at the level needed to make us number one? Honest question. It takes discipline to get to this level at the very least.

 

[candycorn]

I'm to the point of this; take 5 or 10 states in different make-ups, different parts of the country and do the following over the next 5 years.


Take:
VT and ME

MO and KY

LA and AL

UT and ID

In the first states mentioned, VT, MO, LA, UT, give these states a choice to where their parents can choose vouchers or public schools. Fund it through the federal government. Just vouchers; no other major changes to the curriculum/pay schedules, etc.. that wouldn't have been made anyway.

In the 2nd States Mentioned, ME, KY, AL, and ID make it all voucher driven.

At the end of 5 years, if the first group is better than the other 40 states, we have a solution. If the 2nd group is superior to the first group and/or the 40 other states, we have a more definite solution.

If the 40 states are kicking the other 10 state's asses, well, that would speak for itself too.

Candycorn, your idea is ok, but I have a problem with just one thing. Our math education system is not an interstate problem, it's an international problem. We should be #1. Instead, we're #23, down from being #11 several years ago, which is way down from where we were in or around 1955-1965.

Excellence in higher science is 1000% dependent on having good mathematicians. Period. Education has lost its way without excellence in mathematics in this day and age.

Granted.

But a lot of other factors are state-specific. Demographics for one of them. Which is why I have the midwest, west, south, and New England all represented.

What I proposed, in no way, does anything to injure the study of science and mathematics. It addresses, I feel, the mystery of the "bedrock" problem of what works better...funding schools or just funding students and letting them pick their schools.

I have to say, Obama has this one item right, but he placed this hurting priority below priorities which will cause the nation to founder financially in the future.

With Obamacare extracting as much as the GNP in 5 years, there's nothing left for anything else that is important.

We spent a lot of money on war, and we have a lot of men and women who were wounded there that we need to take care of on a priority basis because of their sacrifices.

You'd get more bang for your buck if you took the math teachers of America, and offered them a $2,000 bonus for every 98% math score of their kids on the SAT scores. Teachers are human, and the incentive to get kids to do excellence is the only way you can throw money at a problem and get results. Unionizing teachers didn't do it, it converted them to thinking in terms of entitlement rather than excellence.

Oh, and tap the Professional Engineers Society that conducts MathCounts tests to check the results with tests of their own.

No slouching from the peanut gallery who might be tempted to ahem "fix" scores to enrich themselves. The Society of Professional Engineers won't let that happen. They are pledged to a standard, and they simply do not steer off course. And they'll fund it themselves like they do MathCounts. Additionally, they will privately fund college tuition and lifelong good jobs for the top scores.

So taxpayers won't be out $1B. It might cost a couple of million in postage and communication fees, but not a billion, and not 50 additional teachers per state either.

American students should be kicking ass on international mathematics scores.

Instead, we have a lot of students now who are the victims of entitled teachers molesting them at an alarming rate in almost every school system from coast to coast. There's too much personal shit going on in the schools and not enough reading, writing, and arithmetic.

The way to do that is to get the teachers back into excellence mode and out of entitlement mode.

That will not happen under the current administration of Marxism into every aspect of health care under Obamacare due to the expenses of making all hospitals and patients subdue to unions.

Sick people in a hospital setting must never be subjected to what Wisconsin teachers subjected children to in confronting the governor of that state a couple of years back. Getting kids to sing mean political songs in a state capitol without their parents knowledge or consent is one of the world's worst spectacles since the spectacle of Hitler's youth were used to murder minority members of society in Germany from the late 30s through 1945.

It's international test scores that tell us where we are, not interstate.

Wow...talk about leaving the reservation...Marxism....Obamacare.....Hitler.....you left out the kitchen sink.

Well....you blame the teachers which I guess is a culpable party to the education but not the parents? Okay....I think you're wrong there.

I also think that the teachers could do a much better job; teachers unions need to be dialed back in terms of their influence. I agree with some of what you say as far as using a disinterested third party to assess progress but until parents step up; all of the teaching in the world isn't going to make much of a difference. Perhaps incentivizing the parents to a degree in the forms of scholarships and grants for continuing education would help.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm amazed that Im saying this, but Kudos Flaylo for being reasonable in this discussion. I don't know why this is different, but you aren't usually this civil in threads. I just wanted to say I appreciate it.