Obama proposes tax hikes on wealthy, Capital Gains tax hikes that will likely backfire as usual

[The Rabbi]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

You understand that lower cap gains taxes produce MORE revenue from high income people, not less, right? Even Obama understands that.

Prove it.

 

[Skylar]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

 

[Skylar]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

You understand that lower cap gains taxes produce MORE revenue from high income people, not less, right? Even Obama understands that.

Prove it.

Yeah, that would be a neat trick. As even the economists on Bush's own advisory committee admitted that they made back only 50% of the capital gains cuts in revenue, and only a quarter of the income tax revenue.

But you know better than the economists that Bush appointed to his economic advisory committee? Really?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Labor is nothing but a commodity.

People sell their labor to the company that will pay the most for their particular skill set.

 

[The Rabbi]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Oy. ANother ignoramus.
If there is no market for a company's stock they are shut out of raising money. That's finance. I am sorry you dont understand it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

You understand that lower cap gains taxes produce MORE revenue from high income people, not less, right? Even Obama understands that.

Prove it.

Yeah, that would be a neat trick. As even the economists on Bush's own advisory committee admitted that they made back only 50% of the capital gains cuts in revenue, and only a quarter of the income tax revenue.

But you know better than the economists that Bush appointed to his economic advisory committee? Really?

Link? Because even Obama understands that lowering cap gains rates increases revenue.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Oy. ANother ignoramus.
If there is no market for a company's stock they are shut out of raising money. That's finance. I am sorry you dont understand it.

Yeah he likens the stock market to a poker game.

 

[The Rabbi]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Oy. ANother ignoramus.
If there is no market for a company's stock they are shut out of raising money. That's finance. I am sorry you dont understand it.

Yeah he likens the stock market to a poker game.

People just dont understand how this works. To them the stock market is no different than a crap game in Vegas. Frankly I blame Bush

 

[Darkwind]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

 

[Moonglow]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

 

[Skylar]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

You understand that lower cap gains taxes produce MORE revenue from high income people, not less, right? Even Obama understands that.

Prove it.

Yeah, that would be a neat trick. As even the economists on Bush's own advisory committee admitted that they made back only 50% of the capital gains cuts in revenue, and only a quarter of the income tax revenue.

But you know better than the economists that Bush appointed to his economic advisory committee? Really?

Link? Because even Obama understands that lowering cap gains rates increases revenue.

I've already provided them to you repeatedly. You ignored them every time I posted them. And watch....you'll ignore them again.

Virtually every economics Ph.D. who has worked in a prominent role in the Bush Administration acknowledges that the tax cuts enacted during the past six years have not paid for themselves--and were never intended to. Harvard professor Greg Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers from 2003 to 2005, even devotes a section of his best-selling economics textbook to debunking the claim that tax cuts increase revenues

Tax Cuts Don t Boost Revenues - TIME

Lets elaborate a little on Greg Manwik's position, as he gets quite specific. And quite official, as he's citing Bush's own economic reports.

My other work has remained consistent with this view. In a paper on dynamic scoring, written while I was working at the White House, Matthew Weinzierl and I estimated that a broad-based income tax cut (applying to both capital and labor income) would recoup only about a quarter of the lost revenue through supply-side growth effects. For a cut in capital income taxes, the feedback is larger--about 50 percent--but still well under 100 percent. A chapter on dynamic scoring in the 2004 Economic Report of the President says about the the same thing.

Greg Mankiw s Blog On Charlatans and Cranks

This is the man who GW appointed to chair the 'Council of Economic Advisors', the president's own agency that advises him on economic issues. And he explicitly contradicts your claims, indicating that less than half of the cut to capital gains and roughly a quarter of the gains in income tax cuts were recouped as revenue. And he's hardly alone:

You are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one.

Andrew Samwick
Vox Baby A New Year s Plea

This is the chief economist for Bush's Council on Economic Advisors. And he too utterly obliterates your claims of causality between increased revenue and tax cuts.
Post 161

Obama wants to raise taxes on the American people once again Page 17 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

That would be Dr. Greg Mankiw and Dr. Andrew Samwick, both economic advisors to the Bush administration. Both who explictly contradict you. The quotes of whom I've already provided you. And both of whom you've dismissed as 'gibberish'.

And you'll ignore them again, Rabbi. As your perspective mandates that you remain hopelessly ignorant.

 

[Darkwind]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

I don't really care whose day it makes. The fact remains, taxation at this time and on this form of income is nothing less than pure vindictiveness. Perpetrated in hate.

 

[Skylar]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Oy. ANother ignoramus.
If there is no market for a company's stock they are shut out of raising money. That's finance. I am sorry you dont understand it.

Unless you're buying directly from microsoft, you're not adding a penny to that company's coffers. Nor does your selling your stock for more than you paid for it benefit Microsoft in any way. Nor does you losing money on the stock. Your increase makes nothing, it provides no service, makes no good, nor benefits the economy in any meaningful way

Why then would we give you a massive tax break and a loophole you could fly a plane through for such useless increase.....while charging a higher rate for people that are actually working, building businesses, making products and providing services that meaningfully benefit the economy?

There is no reason. If anything, capital gains should be taxed at a rate higher than the increases of meaningful labor. Or at the very least, taxed as regular income, as we did under Reagan.

 

[Moonglow]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

I don't really care whose day it makes. The fact remains, taxation at this time and on this form of income is nothing less than pure vindictiveness. Perpetrated in hate.

To me they all are, but I doubt there will ever be a zero tax rate...

 

[Skylar]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

I don't really care whose day it makes. The fact remains, taxation at this time and on this form of income is nothing less than pure vindictiveness. Perpetrated in hate.

One need not hate a person to tax them. And a tax break for the middle class funded by an increase in capital gains makes extraordinary sense. As the middle class does meaningful labor, providing actual goods and services that genuinely grow the economy.

While skimming fractions of pennies off of minute changes to stock prices adds nothing to the economy, provides no service, creates no good. It simply transfers money from one speculator to another. And back again.

Why would we grant a preferred rate to this kind of useless increase while charging those actually building something and providing services a higher rate? It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Skylar]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Labor is nothing but a commodity.

People sell their labor to the company that will pay the most for their particular skill set.

Labor actually does shit. It can dig a ditch. It can build a house. It can make a product. It can provide a service.

Shaving fractions of pennies off several times a second in minute fluctuations of stock value doesn't do a thing. It provides no service. It makes nothing. It improves nothing. It adds to the economy in no meaningful way.

Why then would we give this uselessness a massive tax break while holding labor that genuinely builds something at a higher rate? It boggles the mind.

 

[Darkwind]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

I don't really care whose day it makes. The fact remains, taxation at this time and on this form of income is nothing less than pure vindictiveness. Perpetrated in hate.

One need not hate a person to tax them. And a tax break for the middle class funded by an increase in capital gains makes extraordinary sense. As the middle class does meaningful labor, providing actual goods and services that genuinely grow the economy.

While skimming fractions of pennies off of minute changes to stock prices adds nothing to the economy, provides no service, creates no good. It simply transfers money from one speculator to another. And back again.

Why would we grant a preferred rate to this kind of useless increase while charging those actually building something and providing services a higher rate? It makes absolutely no sense.

None of this is the reason for the taxes. This proposal for tax increases is to bribe votes and to harm the successful. These are the only motivations.

The middle class do not need a tax break as much as they need company's making enough profit to provide them with jobs that pay a middle class wage.

BTW....why aren't you and all the other progressives ridiculing Obama on wasting tax payer time as you do Republicans? Obama proposes this knowing full well that it will never pass.

He's wasting your time.

 

[Darkwind]

You really dont understand how finance works, do you?
Hint: Companies raise money through stock offerings as well as bond offerings. When investors buy a company's stock they are providing liquidity and a market that the company may use to raise additional funds.

Uh-huh. And when was the last time Microsoft make a stock offering? You're not buying from Microsoft. You're buying from another speculator. Your speculation adds nothing to the economy. It does nothing. It generates no service. It enhances nothing. It improves nothing. Its practically and intrinsically worthless. As all you're doing is taking money from the last speculator who guessed wrong. Or giving money to the next speculator who guessed right.

Why then would this useless increase that doesn't benefit the economy in any meaningful way nor the company that issued the stock be taxed at a lower rate than the fruits of genuine labor? Where something is actually built, where value is actually added, where a service is actually provided, where the economy is actually grown?

There is no reason. Actual labor benefits the economy to a far greater extent than endless stock speculation. As such, capital gains should be taxed at at least the the level of real labor. If not higher. This massive tax loophole for the rich is pointless and serves no valid purpose.

Labor is nothing but a commodity.

People sell their labor to the company that will pay the most for their particular skill set.

Labor actually does shit. It can dig a ditch. It can build a house. It can make a product. It can provide a service.

Shaving fractions of pennies off several times a second in minute fluctuations of stock value doesn't do a thing. It provides no service. It makes nothing. It improves nothing. It adds to the economy in no meaningful way.

Why then would we give this uselessness a massive tax break while holding labor that genuinely builds something at a higher rate? It boggles the mind.

Okay, I can see you lack the cognitive ability to have this discussion. If you can't even grasp the role of capital in the function of expanding business.

Good bye.

 

[Darkwind]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

I don't really care whose day it makes. The fact remains, taxation at this time and on this form of income is nothing less than pure vindictiveness. Perpetrated in hate.

To me they all are, but I doubt there will ever be a zero tax rate...

Nor should there be. Government does have legitimate functions that require funding. Progressive programs are not one of those functions, however and it goes without saying that taxation to harm any one single group of people is criminal.

 

[Skylar]

Just tighten that belt another notch rich guy...it's for the good of the nation.......

It is not for the good of the country. Taxes such as these are to punish success out of envy and a desire to get even by those who are not as successful.

The taxes collected will serve no good purpose.

I am sure it will make one politicians day...

I don't really care whose day it makes. The fact remains, taxation at this time and on this form of income is nothing less than pure vindictiveness. Perpetrated in hate.

One need not hate a person to tax them. And a tax break for the middle class funded by an increase in capital gains makes extraordinary sense. As the middle class does meaningful labor, providing actual goods and services that genuinely grow the economy.

While skimming fractions of pennies off of minute changes to stock prices adds nothing to the economy, provides no service, creates no good. It simply transfers money from one speculator to another. And back again.

Why would we grant a preferred rate to this kind of useless increase while charging those actually building something and providing services a higher rate? It makes absolutely no sense.

None of this is the reason for the taxes.

Sure it is. As the increase in capital gains can help offset the costs of a matching cut in middle class tax rates. More money in more pockets...without an accompanying increase in the deficit. There's no reason that capital gains should be lower than ordinary income. You can treat capital gains as ordinary income and cut the tax burden of the middle class.

You get fairness and tax cuts at the same time. Sounds like a great reason to do both.

This proposal for tax increases is to bribe votes and to harm the successful. These are the only motivations.

Says who? Sounds like 'Begging the Question' to me.

The middle class do not need a tax break as much as they need company's making enough profit to provide them with jobs that pay a middle class wage.

What companies? Remember, stock speculation doesn't provide a damn thing to companies. If you shave fractions of a penny off several times a second based on tiny fluctuations in market value......the company that issued the stock doesn't actually get shit. You're not doing anything but shifting money between speculators.

While more money in the middle class hands will result in more spending on actual goods and services. Shit actually happens, things get built, services get provided, the economy improves and expands in a meaningful way.

Such a move makes good economic sense. It will improve the economy in a way that shifting fractions of pennies between stock speculators simply can't.