Obama stimulus is failed

[The Rabbi]

You do understand that WWII was a massive government spending program, right? If massive government spending programs, on borrowed money, can't bring a country out of recession,

how come that one did?

Are you suggesting that all unemployed people join the military?

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

The question has been answered. Which part do you need read to you?

 

[Vanquish]

Don't expect Rabbi to answer you directly when confronted with superior argument. He turns tail, runs, and insults because he has no other choice.

 

[NYcarbineer]

this is new height in intellectual dishonesty, even for you, and man, thats saying something. simply unbelievable.

The clowns are saying the stimulus failed because unemployment isn't 8%. That's a made up number.

So why did Obama's team make up that number?

Have you ever actually read the analysis?

 

[NYcarbineer]

No it didn't. IT MADE THINGS WORSE. The U.S. is enduring the Worst Recovery Ever.

Thanks Obama!

You have to demonstrate, with evidence, that things would have been better had there been no stimulus.

The proof is that their prediction of what would have happened without the Stimulus is better than where we are now after it was enacted.

That's daft. If they were operating from overly optimistic scenarios, then however much they were wrong on results with the stimulus has to be factored into their prediction without the stimulus.

If the stimulus saved or created 3 million jobs, but, say, 6 million jobs would have been needed to move the UE needle down,

then the only failure of the stimulus was that it wasn't big enough to deal with the magnitude of the problem,

and a significantly bigger stimulus was simply not an option, politically.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Which was a total failure from 1933 until Hitler's invasion of Poland.

Epic Fail.

Epic Fail every time its been tried.

You do understand that WWII was a massive government spending program, right? If massive government spending programs, on borrowed money, can't bring a country out of recession,

how come that one did?

Are you suggesting we start a World War to solve the current economic morass? And it's a myth that FDR got us out of the Great Depression:

What about World War II? We need to understand that the near-full employment during the conflict was temporary. Ten million to 12 million soldiers overseas and another 10 million to 15 million people making tanks, bullets and war materiel do not a lasting recovery make. The country essentially traded temporary jobs for a skyrocketing national debt. Many of those jobs had little or no value after the war.

No one knew this more than FDR himself. His key advisers were frantic at the possibility of the Great Depression's return when the war ended and the soldiers came home. The president believed a New Deal revival was the answer—and on Oct. 28, 1944, about six months before his death, he spelled out his vision for a postwar America. It included government-subsidized housing, federal involvement in health care, more TVA projects, and the "right to a useful and remunerative job" provided by the federal government if necessary.

Roosevelt died before the war ended and before he could implement his New Deal revival. His successor, Harry Truman, in a 16,000 word message on Sept. 6, 1945, urged Congress to enact FDR's ideas as the best way to achieve full employment after the war.

Congress—both chambers with Democratic majorities—responded by just saying "no." No to the whole New Deal revival: no federal program for health care, no full-employment act, only limited federal housing, and no increase in minimum wage or Social Security benefits.

Instead, Congress reduced taxes. Income tax rates were cut across the board. FDR's top marginal rate, 94% on all income over $200,000, was cut to 86.45%. The lowest rate was cut to 19% from 23%, and with a change in the amount of income exempt from taxation an estimated 12 million Americans were eliminated from the tax rolls entirely.Corporate tax rates were trimmed and FDR's "excess profits" tax was repealed, which meant that top marginal corporate tax rates effectively went to 38% from 90% after 1945.

Georgia Sen. Walter George, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, defended the Revenue Act of 1945 with arguments that today we would call "supply-side economics." If the tax bill "has the effect which it is hoped it will have," George said, "it will so stimulate the expansion of business as to bring in a greater total revenue." ...


Burt Folsom: Did FDR End the Depression? - WSJ.com

We had an 11 month recession in 48/49.

 

[The Rabbi]

The clowns are saying the stimulus failed because unemployment isn't 8%. That's a made up number.

So why did Obama's team make up that number?

Have you ever actually read the analysis?

Please answer the question. Why did Obama's team make up that number?

 

[The Rabbi]

Don't expect Rabbi to answer you directly when confronted with superior argument. He turns tail, runs, and insults because he has no other choice.

How would you know? You've never mounted an argument, much less a superior one.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Also, if cutting taxes is such a magic bullet, why didn't the economy boom over the last decade?

It kind of did.

Between 2003 and 2007, there was definably a "boom."

 

[NYcarbineer]

So why did Obama's team make up that number?

Have you ever actually read the analysis?

Please answer the question. Why did Obama's team make up that number?

So you've never read the analysis, but you can make all sorts of grandiose claims about it.

ha, that's funny.

 

[boedicca]

You do understand that WWII was a massive government spending program, right? If massive government spending programs, on borrowed money, can't bring a country out of recession,

how come that one did?

Are you suggesting that all unemployed people join the military?

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

 

[editec]

Obama stimulus is failed

It didn't FAIL the people it was DESIGNED to help...the BANSTERS.

It failed to help the macro-economy, but then it was not designed to help the macro-economy all that much.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you suggesting that all unemployed people join the military?

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

We had an 11 month recession subsequent to those post FDR tax cuts you keep referencing. And they were only temporary.

As to the temporary nature of wartime stimulus, peacetime stimuli are designed to be temporary too. Stimulus is supposed to smooth out the peak and trough nature of the business cycle.

 

[boedicca]

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

We had an 11 month recession subsequent to those post FDR tax cuts you keep referencing. And they were only temporary.

As to the temporary nature of wartime stimulus, peacetime stimuli are designed to be temporary too. Stimulus is supposed to smooth out the peak and trough nature of the business cycle.

Condolences. It must be sad to go through life suffering from the Heartbreak of Economic Illiteracy.

 

[8537]

Are you suggesting that all unemployed people join the military?

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

The booming economy was a result of a near doubling of productive capacity during the war and a newly-enriched middle class thanks to the same.

The peacetime expansion of the 1950's would not have occurred if not for the increase in potential GDP that gave it something to expand into during the war.

as for "massively cutting taxes", I don't consider a cut of the TMR from 94 to 91% a massive cut.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

The booming economy was a result of a near doubling of productive capacity during the war and a newly-enriched middle class thanks to the same.

The peacetime expansion of the 1950's would not have occurred if not for the increase in potential GDP that gave it something to expand into during the war.

as for "massively cutting taxes", I don't consider a cut of the TMR from 94 to 91% a massive cut.

Bombing the shit out of competitors didnt hurt either. At least not until the 1970s.

 

[boedicca]

No, I was asking a question. Can you answer the question?

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

The booming economy was a result of a near doubling of productive capacity during the war and a newly-enriched middle class thanks to the same.

The peacetime expansion of the 1950's would not have occurred if not for the increase in potential GDP that gave it something to expand into during the war.

as for "massively cutting taxes", I don't consider a cut of the TMR from 94 to 91% a massive cut.

You are just demonstrating your ignorance. Taxes were cut across the board, not just at the top rate which only applied to incomes in excess of $2.5M in 2011 dollars.

Corporate marginal tax rates were also cut, from 90% to 38%.

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2011

 

[The Rabbi]

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

The booming economy was a result of a near doubling of productive capacity during the war and a newly-enriched middle class thanks to the same.

The peacetime expansion of the 1950's would not have occurred if not for the increase in potential GDP that gave it something to expand into during the war.

as for "massively cutting taxes", I don't consider a cut of the TMR from 94 to 91% a massive cut.

You are just demonstrating your ignorance. Taxes were cut across the board, not just at the top rate which only applied to incomes in excess of $2.5M in 2011 dollars.

Corporate marginal tax rates were also cut, from 90% to 38%.

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2011

If that was the case then why did we have a recession in 1973? Hm? Why didnt tax cuts create jobs like all you rightwing loons claim. See, tax cuts caused the 1973 recession. We need to raise taxes now.

 

[8537]

War times jobs are TEMPORARY. Soldiers come home after a war; the drive to manufacture munitions winds down.

And then what? Unless there is an economic climate which encourages the Private Sector, where are the jobs for the returning solidiers?

Even FDR recognized that the war effort was temporary, and was planning a New Deal Part Deux once the war was over. Truman continued the proposals after FDR died. Fortunately, Congress rejected the proposals and massively cut taxes, price controls and other regulations instead. The result: a booming, growing economy with significant job creation and low unemployment.

The booming economy was a result of a near doubling of productive capacity during the war and a newly-enriched middle class thanks to the same.

The peacetime expansion of the 1950's would not have occurred if not for the increase in potential GDP that gave it something to expand into during the war.

as for "massively cutting taxes", I don't consider a cut of the TMR from 94 to 91% a massive cut.

You are just demonstrating your ignorance. Taxes were cut across the board, not just at the top rate which only applied to incomes in excess of $2.5M in 2011 dollars.

Corporate marginal tax rates were also cut, from 90% to 38%.

The Tax Foundation - U.S. Federal Individual Income Tax Rates History, 1913-2011

Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2011

Speaking of demonstrating ignorance for all to see:

The top corporate tax rate in 1940 was 38%, though it dropped to 24% for taxable income over $39,000
The top corporate rate in 1945 was 53%, (dropping to 40% for taxable income over $50,000.

In 1949 it was virtually unchanged from 1945.

in 1955 it was 52%.

It was never 90, nor did it drop to 38%.

The Tax Foundation - Federal Corporate Income Tax Rates, Income Years 1909-2008

 

[KissMy]

Obama's Director of the White House National Economic Council & Clinton's Secretary of the Treasury Lawrence Summers at 22:00 in video

"If Hitler had not come along, Franklin Roosevelt would have left office in the beginning of 1941 with an unemployment rate in excess of 15% and an economic recovery strategy that had basically failed."

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama's Director of the White House National Economic Council & Clinton's Secretary of the Treasury Lawrence Summers at 22:00 in video

"If Hitler had not come along, Franklin Roosevelt would have left office in the beginning of 1941 with an unemployment rate in excess of 15% and an economic recovery strategy that had basically failed."

FDR's strategy was the biggest failure in economic history, next to the Weimar Republic. That people still dont understand that is testament to his enduring fondness in the hearts of liberals who run the educational establishment.
If there was any doubt, the Japanese replayed this script in the 1990s, with similar results.
And now Obama and the Dums keep trotting out program after program, all the while bashing big business and threatening more taxes and regulation.
You'd think some people would learn.