Obama throws Bush under the bus......accuses him of torture

[QuickHitCurepon]

putting the blame game aside (Bu$h II- speak) torture doesn't work.

Sorry, Dick Cheney: Torture doesn't work - The Week

You might be wondering: How was I so prescient? In fact, I deserve no credit: that torture during the Bush era yielded no valuable intelligence was completely obvious from the beginning, despite what Dick Cheney might have you believe. All you had to do was pay attention to people who have studied torture carefully. Darius Rejali, a professor at Reed College, did just that in his masterpiece Torture and Democracy (see here and here). Rejali found that torture is good for two things: intimidation and extracting false confessions. As an intelligence-gathering mechanism, it's much worse than worthless. You get no good intelligence, while what you do get is decidedly bad, including a corrosion of the legitimacy of security agencies and a weakening of the foundation of liberal democracy itself.

Micah Zenko makes a good point that the major issue when it comes to torture is that it is blatantly illegal, immoral, and unethical. He's right that the rule of law — not to mention basic decency — ought to land every torturer in federal prison.

this

 

[rightwinger]

Obama assassinates a U.S. citizen with a drone attack...nothing to see move along. Launch a strike to kill Osama good, enhanced interrogation of an Osama operative bad, libs are from Mars or something.

So your justification is that since war is bad that torture should somehow be allowed

 

[RKMBrown]

Most democrats think living in a tent is torture. .

I said it before and I'll say it again...When defending something Republicans find themselves having to say the silliest shit ever as a defense such as living in a tent is just like drowning

Would you rather be waterboarded or killed? Which is worse.

People that join the military are choosing to be killed or at least the possibility. Nobody has ever chosen to be tortured.

There's your problem. You have a screw loose. Choosing to fight for your country is not the same as choosing to be killed.

Knowing that there is a good chance you will die for your country is always foremost in your mind. It doesn't get any more real than that.

Yet you'd rather let every American die than have some CIA agent hidden away in a bunker commit the sin or torturing one terrorist?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Most democrats think living in a tent is torture. .

I said it before and I'll say it again...When defending something Republicans find themselves having to say the silliest shit ever as a defense such as living in a tent is just like drowning

Would you rather be waterboarded or killed? Which is worse.

People that join the military are choosing to be killed or at least the possibility. Nobody has ever chosen to be tortured.

There's your problem. You have a screw loose. Choosing to fight for your country is not the same as choosing to be killed.

Knowing that there is a good chance you will die for your country is always foremost in your mind. It doesn't get any more real than that.

Yet you'd rather let every American die than have some CIA agent hidden away in a bunker commit the sin or torturing one terrorist?

False choice logic

 

[kaz]

The CIA couldn't have been very good at it.

According to your post which is based only on partisan Democrat points? LOL, I thought you said I misinterpreted what you are claiming? Obviously I didn't.

How did you get all that from a nine-word post?

You have no critical thinking skills

Your post had absolutely nothing to do with mine.

You tried to pass off Senate Democrats as the CIA and got called on it. Give it up, you lost this one.

No. But I see you have very little to add, maybe because deep down inside you know torture is is wrong and that it really is obvious that we were officially doing it.

Remember and maybe your conscience can shine through. The Statue of Liberty does not stand for those values.

First of all, that you have to use a word game on "torture" shows your argument is tortured.

Beyond that, I think we should do no permanent damage to someone who is guilty of being or supporting terrorism to save lives, and you want innocent people to die to show how evolved you are. I'm not the one who needs to worry about a guilty conscience.

And furthermore, I want to not be in places like Iraq because I don't believe in limited war. I believe in trying to not be in them, then going all out when we have no choice and are forced to. I would have avoided the situation entirely. You are for it, or against it, depending on whether our President is Democrat or Republican and what sort of mileage you can get out of talking points and what the UN says and how we are perceived by the international left.

And you are willing to call giving someone a bad day without harming them "torture" as if it's the same as dismembering him just because to get there.

And you talk about my conscience. LOL. Mine is clear, you're is very dark.

 

[kaz]

Most democrats think living in a tent is torture. .

I said it before and I'll say it again...When defending something Republicans find themselves having to say the silliest shit ever as a defense such as living in a tent is just like drowning

Would you rather be waterboarded or killed? Which is worse.

People that join the military are choosing to be killed or at least the possibility. Nobody has ever chosen to be tortured.

And we don't torture, never did. But your childish word games aside, cavorting with terrorists is certainly asking to be interrogated, and coersively so.

Did you say childish word games aside then say the bolded? LOL

Watcha talking about, Willis?

 

[rightwinger]

The CIA couldn't have been very good at it.

According to your post which is based only on partisan Democrat points? LOL, I thought you said I misinterpreted what you are claiming? Obviously I didn't.

How did you get all that from a nine-word post?

You have no critical thinking skills

Your post had absolutely nothing to do with mine.

You tried to pass off Senate Democrats as the CIA and got called on it. Give it up, you lost this one.

No. But I see you have very little to add, maybe because deep down inside you know torture is is wrong and that it really is obvious that we were officially doing it.

Remember and maybe your conscience can shine through. The Statue of Liberty does not stand for those values.

First of all, that you have to use a word game on "torture" shows your argument is tortured.

Beyond that, I think we should do no permanent damage to someone who is guilty of being or supporting terrorism to save lives, and you want innocent people to die to show how evolved you are. I'm not the one who needs to worry about a guilty conscience.

And furthermore, I want to not be in places like Iraq because I don't believe in limited war. I believe in trying to not be in them, then going all out when we have no choice and are forced to. I would have avoided the situation entirely. You are for it, or against it, depending on whether our President is Democrat or Republican and what sort of mileage you can get out of talking points and what the UN says and how we are perceived by the international left.

And you are willing to call giving someone a bad day without harming them "torture" as if it's the same as dismembering him just because to get there.

And you talk about my conscience. LOL. Mine is clear, you're is very dark.

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

Do you think American prisoners having a bad day is acceptable.

 

[Uncensored2008]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

So let's recap, you Communists have called waterboarding "torture," but can't get any traction with it. So a nefarious British Tabloid with a long reputation of outright lying posts a claim that actual torture was used, such as submersing people until they passed out and were near death. The tabloid appears intent on attacking the Bush administration and showing torture, even using words like "this wasn't just pouring water on a towel," which is the definition of waterboarding, thus verifying that even the left can't support the claim that waterboarding is torture.

Basically "Far left tabloid lies about torture by CIA, but confirms waterboarding is not torure!" :thup;

Of course not a single American news source, not even the Party run MSNBC has gone with this pile of rubbish.

So we can chalk it up to the hate-filled left again shooting themselves squarely in the foot.

 

[kaz]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day[

Strawman

Do you think American prisoners having a bad day is acceptable.

You mean like Bergdahl?

If an American prisoner knows about someone about to commit a terrorists act against innocent civilians, then hell yeah, coerce them into talking to prevent it.

 

[Camp]

The CIA couldn't have been very good at it.

According to your post which is based only on partisan Democrat points? LOL, I thought you said I misinterpreted what you are claiming? Obviously I didn't.

How did you get all that from a nine-word post?

You have no critical thinking skills

These people have lots of critical thinking skills and they think your thinking of torture is backwards and crude. They say torture doesn't work and leads to faulty data that causes more damage than good. It gathers faulty and unreliable intelligence and throws away the opportunity to acquire valuable intelligence. But what would the National Intelligence War College and the Army Command and General Staff College know?

fas.org./irp/dni/educing.pdf

You have an quotes with sources from that or were you just responding with a link to a 250 page document?

The CIA couldn't have been very good at it.

According to your post which is based only on partisan Democrat points? LOL, I thought you said I misinterpreted what you are claiming? Obviously I didn't.

How did you get all that from a nine-word post?

You have no critical thinking skills

These people have lots of critical thinking skills and they think your thinking of torture is backwards and crude. They say torture doesn't work and leads to faulty data that causes more damage than good. It gathers faulty and unreliable intelligence and throws away the opportunity to acquire valuable intelligence. But what would the National Intelligence War College and the Army Command and General Staff College know?

fas.org./irp/dni/educing.pdf

You have an quotes with sources from that or were you just responding with a link to a 250 page document?

It's a book by a combination or reliable and reputable sources. It shows how scientific and empirical knowledge makes the pro torture side of the debate wrong. Sorry it isn't a simple talking point or quick little article. You do have the option of skimming through the table of contents and choosing some brief reads. I guess you could just read the introduction and then go to the end of the book for the finish. Your choice, learn as little or as much as you desire, or just stay stupid.

 

[kaz]

Your choice, learn as little or as much as you desire, or just stay stupid.

LOL, you cure ignorance with information, information does not cure stupidity. Stupidity is not curable. Liberals crack me up, even when you try to call someone else stupid, you show how stupid you are.

 

[Camp]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

So let's recap, you Communists have called waterboarding "torture," but can't get any traction with it. So a nefarious British Tabloid with a long reputation of outright lying posts a claim that actual torture was used, such as submersing people until they passed out and were near death. The tabloid appears intent on attacking the Bush administration and showing torture, even using words like "this wasn't just pouring water on a towel," which is the definition of waterboarding, thus verifying that even the left can't support the claim that waterboarding is torture.

Basically "Far left tabloid lies about torture by CIA, but confirms waterboarding is not torure!" :thup;

Of course not a single American news source, not even the Party run MSNBC has gone with this pile of rubbish.

So we can chalk it up to the hate-filled left again shooting themselves squarely in the foot.

Still in denial about water boarding or just enjoy being dishonest. You have seen this before. It confirms that the US indicted Japanese soldiers for water boarding. This one got 15 years.

public-access-project.org/asano-_case.pdf

 

[RKMBrown]

Most democrats think living in a tent is torture. .

I said it before and I'll say it again...When defending something Republicans find themselves having to say the silliest shit ever as a defense such as living in a tent is just like drowning

Would you rather be waterboarded or killed? Which is worse.

People that join the military are choosing to be killed or at least the possibility. Nobody has ever chosen to be tortured.

There's your problem. You have a screw loose. Choosing to fight for your country is not the same as choosing to be killed.

Knowing that there is a good chance you will die for your country is always foremost in your mind. It doesn't get any more real than that.

Yet you'd rather let every American die than have some CIA agent hidden away in a bunker commit the sin or torturing one terrorist?

False choice logic

It's not some game where you can decide to just not play. Terrorists are real, buildings have already been blown up. Terrorists have already stolen plans to convert Eboloa into a weapon. The CIA has agents. They already interrogate terrorists. Thus, it's not a false choice. It is a plausible choice for a plausible scenario.

 

[kaz]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

So let's recap, you Communists have called waterboarding "torture," but can't get any traction with it. So a nefarious British Tabloid with a long reputation of outright lying posts a claim that actual torture was used, such as submersing people until they passed out and were near death. The tabloid appears intent on attacking the Bush administration and showing torture, even using words like "this wasn't just pouring water on a towel," which is the definition of waterboarding, thus verifying that even the left can't support the claim that waterboarding is torture.

Basically "Far left tabloid lies about torture by CIA, but confirms waterboarding is not torure!" :thup;

Of course not a single American news source, not even the Party run MSNBC has gone with this pile of rubbish.

So we can chalk it up to the hate-filled left again shooting themselves squarely in the foot.

Still in denial about water boarding or just enjoy being dishonest. You have seen this before. It confirms that the US indicted Japanese soldiers for water boarding. This one got 15 years.

public-access-project.org/asano-_case.pdf

Being dishonest? You mean like using the same word to make something that causes no damage and is done for the purpose of saving innocent lives sound the same as dismembering and murdering your political enemies? You mean being dishonest like that?

 

[kaz]

It's not some game where you can decide to just not play. Terrorists are real, buildings have already been blown up. Terrorists have already stolen plans to convert Eboloa into a weapon.

Yeah, but even worse than that, Republicans are still in Congress and the Senate and they have to be defeated at ALL COSTS. Innocent lives, the truth, no sacrifice is to great to defeat them. Don't you see that, Mr. Brown?

 

[rightwinger]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

So let's recap, you Communists have called waterboarding "torture," but can't get any traction with it. So a nefarious British Tabloid with a long reputation of outright lying posts a claim that actual torture was used, such as submersing people until they passed out and were near death. The tabloid appears intent on attacking the Bush administration and showing torture, even using words like "this wasn't just pouring water on a towel," which is the definition of waterboarding, thus verifying that even the left can't support the claim that waterboarding is torture.

Basically "Far left tabloid lies about torture by CIA, but confirms waterboarding is not torure!" :thup;

Of course not a single American news source, not even the Party run MSNBC has gone with this pile of rubbish.

So we can chalk it up to the hate-filled left again shooting themselves squarely in the foot.

Waterboarding has always been torture. We have criminally prosecuted for it. I guess it doesn't count as torture when bush does it

 

[rightwinger]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day[

Strawman

Do you think American prisoners having a bad day is acceptable.

You mean like Bergdahl?

If an American prisoner knows about someone about to commit a terrorists act against innocent civilians, then hell yeah, coerce them into talking to prevent it.

You are the one defining torture as someone having a bad day. The Geneva Convention and UN resolution on torture which Reagan was proud to sign disagree. So does John McCain who is an expert on "having a bad day"

 

[Camp]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

So let's recap, you Communists have called waterboarding "torture," but can't get any traction with it. So a nefarious British Tabloid with a long reputation of outright lying posts a claim that actual torture was used, such as submersing people until they passed out and were near death. The tabloid appears intent on attacking the Bush administration and showing torture, even using words like "this wasn't just pouring water on a towel," which is the definition of waterboarding, thus verifying that even the left can't support the claim that waterboarding is torture.

Basically "Far left tabloid lies about torture by CIA, but confirms waterboarding is not torure!" :thup;

Of course not a single American news source, not even the Party run MSNBC has gone with this pile of rubbish.

So we can chalk it up to the hate-filled left again shooting themselves squarely in the foot.

Still in denial about water boarding or just enjoy being dishonest. You have seen this before. It confirms that the US indicted Japanese soldiers for water boarding. This one got 15 years.

public-access-project.org/asano-_case.pdf

Being dishonest? You mean like using the same word to make something that causes no damage and is done for the purpose of saving innocent lives sound the same as dismembering and murdering your political enemies? You mean being dishonest like that?

My post was directed at uncensored because we have had this discussion before and I have posted this link for him on several occasions. Water boarding is torture. We convicted Japanese for using it and sent them to long prison sentences for it.

 

[kaz]

You are the one defining torture as someone having a bad day

Strawman, Moronman. That isn't what I said.

LOL, one of my first exchanges on the board was with you when I told you that you weren't using the term "strawman" correctly, you didn't know what it means. You still don't, but you sure know how to do one. The rarity for you is that any reply makes sense at all.

 

[kaz]

A new low

Torture is giving someone a bad day

So let's recap, you Communists have called waterboarding "torture," but can't get any traction with it. So a nefarious British Tabloid with a long reputation of outright lying posts a claim that actual torture was used, such as submersing people until they passed out and were near death. The tabloid appears intent on attacking the Bush administration and showing torture, even using words like "this wasn't just pouring water on a towel," which is the definition of waterboarding, thus verifying that even the left can't support the claim that waterboarding is torture.

Basically "Far left tabloid lies about torture by CIA, but confirms waterboarding is not torure!" :thup;

Of course not a single American news source, not even the Party run MSNBC has gone with this pile of rubbish.

So we can chalk it up to the hate-filled left again shooting themselves squarely in the foot.

Still in denial about water boarding or just enjoy being dishonest. You have seen this before. It confirms that the US indicted Japanese soldiers for water boarding. This one got 15 years.

public-access-project.org/asano-_case.pdf

Being dishonest? You mean like using the same word to make something that causes no damage and is done for the purpose of saving innocent lives sound the same as dismembering and murdering your political enemies? You mean being dishonest like that?

My post was directed at uncensored because we have had this discussion before and I have posted this link for him on several occasions. Water boarding is torture. We convicted Japanese for using it and sent them to long prison sentences for it.

Can you show the link the Japanese were trying to save innocent lives?

Wow, circumstance is important, not just actions? Who new? Liberals are such simpletons.