Obama to Lift Ban on Overseas Abortion Funding

[Anguille]

I disagree that the UNBORN are the most vulnerable among us.....because they are NOT among us yet...when they are BORN they are the most vulnerable AMONG us.

.................

but the foetus does not have ''life'' until it is birthed and breathes imo.

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

 

[dilloduck]

I disagree that the UNBORN are the most vulnerable among us.....because they are NOT among us yet...when they are BORN they are the most vulnerable AMONG us.

.................

but the foetus does not have ''life'' until it is birthed and breathes imo.

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

then if you do not want fruit, dont allow yourself to be pollinated. It is ALSO your body before become a fruit bearer .

 

[DiamondDave]

I disagree that the UNBORN are the most vulnerable among us.....because they are NOT among us yet...when they are BORN they are the most vulnerable AMONG us.

.................

but the foetus does not have ''life'' until it is birthed and breathes imo.

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

So the difference between a 6 1/2 month in the womb, and one that is delivered prematurely is what?? Air exposure? UV Light?? Magic pixie dust in the c-section scar that suddenly makes a "life" difference?

Neither can survive on their own....

I'll tell you the difference... there is NONE

 

[Anguille]

It is not about controlling 'your' own body... it is preventing you controlling the body of a life that is dependent on you, and you not having the right to arbitrarily terminate that life on your fucking whim... if it were just you mutilating yourself or having an elective surgery that only effects YOU, this would not be an issue... just because you can so easily dismiss a young human life, does not take away from the fact that it is a life

I get the impression from your post that up until a woman gets pregnant, she is a human being. But once she get's pregnant, she is no longer is one..
Look a this statement of yours: "just because you can so easily dismiss a young human life, does not take away from the fact that it is a life"
What if that young human life you refer to is a pregnant woman?

 

[Valerie]

I disagree that the UNBORN are the most vulnerable among us.....because they are NOT among us yet...when they are BORN they are the most vulnerable AMONG us.

.................

but the foetus does not have ''life'' until it is birthed and breathes imo.

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

So the difference between a 6 1/2 month in the womb, and one that is delivered prematurely is what?? Air exposure? UV Light?? Magic pixie dust in the c-section scar that suddenly makes a "life" difference?

Neither can survive on their own....

I'll tell you the difference... there is NONE

I don't disagree with you.

The Number of Abortions After the First Trimester Is Relatively Small

* Between 1996 and 2002, the number of abortions in the U.S. fell from 1.36 million to 1.29 million (Finer & Henshaw, 2003; Guttmacher Institute, 2006). The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 60.5 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 88.2 percent are performed within the first 12 weeks. Only 1.4 percent occur after 20 weeks (CDC, 2006).

* Since the nationwide legalization of abortion in 1973, the proportion of abortions performed after the first trimester has decreased because of increased access to and knowledge about safe, legal abortion services (Gold, 2003).

Abortion After the First Trimester in the United States - Planned Parenthood

And Dillo, you make an excellent point about responsibility!

 

[Ravi]

I disagree that the UNBORN are the most vulnerable among us.....because they are NOT among us yet...when they are BORN they are the most vulnerable AMONG us.

.................

but the foetus does not have ''life'' until it is birthed and breathes imo.

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

So the difference between a 6 1/2 month in the womb, and one that is delivered prematurely is what?? Air exposure? UV Light?? Magic pixie dust in the c-section scar that suddenly makes a "life" difference?

Neither can survive on their own....

I'll tell you the difference... there is NONE

born is born, basically

 

[Ravi]

In the plant kingdom, embryos are seeds and aren't plants (trees, flowers, shrubs) until they sprout. And the host, or mother, is free to drop her fruit if she feels she can't bear a viable plant.

I really don't see a difference in mammals except in the minds of the moralistic busybodies.

that's cause you don't have the capacity to think E=Mc2 just like your daffodils.

In reality, I have a higher capacity to think than you do. But don't bother refuting my point, I'd never expect it of you.

 

[Anguille]

There is no such thing. Take a look at some pictures and tell me how humane abortion is. Oh, and note that the site isn't some rabid, religious, right-wing one. Do me a favor and browse around the site. All you pro-abortionists, go have a gander. THIS is what you believe in. How anyone can look at these picutres and insist that this is not human life destroyed, is blind.

I also suggest that the pro-life group visit this site. If you want to get involved, contribute or have your voice heard, there is always a way and this is a good place to start.


CBR / Abortion Pictures

I've looked at the photos and I still say abortion is humane, very humane. Human life is not being destroyed in those photos, it is being protected. I'm speaking of the lives of the women from whom those embryos and fetuses were removed. Those women are missing from the photos. Heaven forbid someone might have sympathy for them and their needs and rights!

I have no way of knowing if those photos were photoshopped or not. I suspect they may have been, but even if that weren't, they do nothing but bolster my belief that abortion absolutely must allowed for any woman who wants it.

 

[WillowTree]

I disagree that the UNBORN are the most vulnerable among us.....because they are NOT among us yet...when they are BORN they are the most vulnerable AMONG us.

.................

but the foetus does not have ''life'' until it is birthed and breathes imo.

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

then if you do not want fruit, dont allow yourself to be pollinated. It is ALSO your body before become a fruit bearer .

Zing- a- ling-a-ding.

 

[WillowTree]

In the plant kingdom, embryos are seeds and aren't plants (trees, flowers, shrubs) until they sprout. And the host, or mother, is free to drop her fruit if she feels she can't bear a viable plant.

I really don't see a difference in mammals except in the minds of the moralistic busybodies.

that's cause you don't have the capacity to think E=Mc2 just like your daffodils.

In reality, I have a higher capacity to think than you do. But don't bother refuting my point, I'd never expect it of you.

well, then honey, let yer little light shine, cause right now yer beams are on dim.

 

[Valerie]

No thanks. I think it's a sick individual who wants to shove those pictures in the face of a woman on the verge of such a difficult and extremely personal decision. I respect the pro-life stance, but in my opinion it equates to anti-choice. I won't be posting pictures of neglected or diseased children to illustrate my point.

Does that mean that someone else can arbitrarily state that you are not viable to society or the country and simply off you??

Uh, no.

 

[WillowTree]

Why is the US of KKKA funding abortions overseas??

 

[Valerie]

I agree. And you make a good point that they are not among us till they are born.
Until they are born they are part of the woman who is pregnant. Her body, her property. No one else's.

then if you do not want fruit, dont allow yourself to be pollinated. It is ALSO your body before become a fruit bearer .

Zing- a- ling-a-ding.

The fact that some people need to be more responsible is beside the point.

President Obama lifted the gag rule and it was the humane thing to do.

 

[Anguille]

Pregnancy is a temporary condition; adoption is forever.

You trivialize pregnancy and giving birth if you call it a temporary condition.

How about you do something about getting all the all ready existing unadopted children into homes before trying to bully women into bringing more unwanted ones into the world?

 

[WillowTree]

then if you do not want fruit, dont allow yourself to be pollinated. It is ALSO your body before become a fruit bearer .

Zing- a- ling-a-ding.

The fact that some people need to be more responsible is beside the point.

President Obama lifted the gag rule and it was the humane thing to do.

I suppose, if one thinks murder is humane. Vote for the death penalty?

 

[dilloduck]

Pregnancy is a temporary condition; adoption is forever.

You trivialize pregnancy and giving birth if you call it a temporary condition.

How about you do something about getting all the all ready existing unadopted children into homes before trying to bully women into bringing more unwanted ones into the world?

Do you get bullied to have a lot of unwanted kids ?

 

[Anguille]

Here is what it says regarding the Common Law that was used early on in the 1600's and 1700's etc:

Early English common law provided very limited criminal punishment for abortion. In 1648, Edward Coke asserted that "quickening," the point at which a mother becomes aware of the fetus through its motion, was the dividing line between noncriminal and criminal abortion.49 He wrote: "If a woman be quick with childe, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her wombe; or if a man beat her, whereby the childe dieth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead childe, this is a great misprison, and no murder . . . ."50 Thus, abortion after quickening, which usually occurred late in the fourth or early in the fifth month of pregnancy, was only considered a misdemeanor at early common law.51

and also this regarding America:

2. American common and statutory law. Unlike the English common and statutory law, the historical treatment of self-abortion rights in American common and statutory law is ambiguous. In its earliest days, the United States lacked abortion statutes. Instead, states derived their abortion laws from the British common law.65 At this stage, states commonly adopted the early British common law concept that self-aborting or submitting to abortion was not a crime if it occurred before quickening.66 Connecticut became the first state to [*pg 1022] criminalize abortion through statute in 1821.67 The provision, which was primarily a poison control law, criminalized the administration of a poisonous substance "to cause or procure the miscarriage of any woman, then being quick with child."68

The law was aimed primarily at apothecaries who sold the poisons to women, and did not punish the women who ingested the toxins.69

Indeed, such early abortion statutes appeared to consider women seeking abortions as victims of their own moral weaknesses who needed state protection, rather than as felons.70

Duke Law Journal: Suzanne M. Alford, Is Self-Abortion a Fundamental Right?, 52 Duke L. J. 1011 (2003)



So, to me, all of this shows that even back then, in the most prudish and strictest of times for women, they were still not treated the way those on the right opposing abortion, treat them now....calling them murderers, and all kinds of SHIT, that is nothing but the work of the Devil and NOT of Jesus Christ who WOULD BE compassionate and forgiving, again, imo.

Thanks for posting that, Care. I think that people often forget that the anti choice people, though often religious, are not representing a conservative viewpoint. They are part of the radical right.

 

[Valerie]

Zing- a- ling-a-ding.

The fact that some people need to be more responsible is beside the point.

President Obama lifted the gag rule and it was the humane thing to do.

I suppose, if one thinks murder is humane. Vote for the death penalty?

The death penalty can be justified in some circumstances.

Lifting the gag rule does not equal murder.

 

[dilloduck]

Here is what it says regarding the Common Law that was used early on in the 1600's and 1700's etc:

Early English common law provided very limited criminal punishment for abortion. In 1648, Edward Coke asserted that "quickening," the point at which a mother becomes aware of the fetus through its motion, was the dividing line between noncriminal and criminal abortion.49 He wrote: "If a woman be quick with childe, and by a potion or otherwise killeth it in her wombe; or if a man beat her, whereby the childe dieth in her body, and she is delivered of a dead childe, this is a great misprison, and no murder . . . ."50 Thus, abortion after quickening, which usually occurred late in the fourth or early in the fifth month of pregnancy, was only considered a misdemeanor at early common law.51

and also this regarding America:

2. American common and statutory law. Unlike the English common and statutory law, the historical treatment of self-abortion rights in American common and statutory law is ambiguous. In its earliest days, the United States lacked abortion statutes. Instead, states derived their abortion laws from the British common law.65 At this stage, states commonly adopted the early British common law concept that self-aborting or submitting to abortion was not a crime if it occurred before quickening.66 Connecticut became the first state to [*pg 1022] criminalize abortion through statute in 1821.67 The provision, which was primarily a poison control law, criminalized the administration of a poisonous substance "to cause or procure the miscarriage of any woman, then being quick with child."68

The law was aimed primarily at apothecaries who sold the poisons to women, and did not punish the women who ingested the toxins.69

Indeed, such early abortion statutes appeared to consider women seeking abortions as victims of their own moral weaknesses who needed state protection, rather than as felons.70

Duke Law Journal: Suzanne M. Alford, Is Self-Abortion a Fundamental Right?, 52 Duke L. J. 1011 (2003)



So, to me, all of this shows that even back then, in the most prudish and strictest of times for women, they were still not treated the way those on the right opposing abortion, treat them now....calling them murderers, and all kinds of SHIT, that is nothing but the work of the Devil and NOT of Jesus Christ who WOULD BE compassionate and forgiving, again, imo.

Thanks for posting that, Care. I think that people often forget that the anti choice people, though often religious, are not representing a conservative viewpoint. They are part of the radical right.

They also may just be choosing to take the other side of a debate.

 

[Anguille]

then if you do not want fruit, dont allow yourself to be pollinated. It is ALSO your body before become a fruit bearer .

Are you saying a woman should be punished for having sex by being made to bear a child?