Obama: Vietnam Leader Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers

[Trajan]

Obviously a history buff. Correct on all counts.

meaning what exactly?

Meaning it is what it is. Ho was prgmatic. He had confidence that he could adapt and adjust to whatever label was put on whatever "form" of government was set up after the French were gone. Elections and democracy would not be a problem. He knew he could win elections. He would be the "Washington" of Vietnam.

so when the French were booted ( he didn't apply them before they left either) why didn't he apply whats claimed he was promulgating?

 

[Luissa]

and I love how you try to turn this into an emotionally laden topic.

Yeah, okay.

I am the one who brought it up to show horrible Obama is. All the right has to do is mention dead vets and you guys go into full faux outrage retard mode.

that wasn't the case here and whatever does that have to do with what I asked you?

stop trying to tell me I am wrong to think obama said something inane and dumb, tell me why its not inane and dumb.....

How is it dumb?
He stated they discussed that Ho Chi Minh was inspired by the US, which is pretty well known. He was correct in saying so, and all he said was he discussed it.

It is wrong, because it is stupid. The faux outrage over this crap is the number one problem with the right.
Obama didn't lie or make it up, and the right goes into this crazy mode. It happens way too much, and some of us are sick of it. Your ignorance is damaging.

 

[Camp]

America had the deep posckets. We were the idustrail power and would buy all the rubber Vietnam could produce. In addition our industrialist would help develope Vietnams other natural resources in a way no one else could. Add the fact that we were the world superpower and could offer protection from the historical enemy, the Chinese, and we were the natural fit for Ho's purpose of becoming an independent nation free from colonial rule.
What does it mean? Maybe it means don't miss oppurtunitys. Don't base opinions and policys on quick sound bites and rhetoric. Know why your potential future enemys do what they do. Understand culture and how it effects the decisions of your potential enemys. Study the consequences of your decisions.

 

[Luissa]

This is insanity. Is Obama that ignorant or just that determined to kiss the butts of dictators?

I thought Obama studied the constitution. How did he see it as a thumbs up to dictatorship?



Obama: Vietnam Leader Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers

Read more: President Obama Says That Vietnam?s Communist Dictator Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers | Fox News Insider

Boy are you ignorant! I guess that comes with watching Fox 'News'.

See:

Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam

thx for not reading any of the posts in between and going straight to inane...

so tell, me how did he apply the tenets/axions/principals of the declaration of independence to north Vietnam or south there after its fall?


I'll wait, take your time....

Obama wasn't making that point.
All he said was they discussed it. I really had no idea you were so into the faux outrage topics.

Obama didn't say Ho Chi Minh applied the principles of the Declaration of Independents or Thomas Jefferson. He didn't even compare him to the Founding Fathers. All he said was that they discussed that he was inspired by them.
Tell me again why this news or a big deal? Oh! Wait! It isn't.

 

[Trajan]

I do love Allan West and others are calling it a gaffe.

Not a big fan of Mother Jones, but here is a little perspective for the morons who know nothing about Vietnam.

" But Obama's comment wasn't a gaffe or insult to American war vets, as much as someone like Allen West would like it to be. What Obama said is literally a historical fact. In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the "The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson. Here's the excerpt:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out | Mother Jones
I am guessing this is what they were discussing Trajan.


So first off was Obama correct in saying he was inspired by Jefferson? And second did obama only say they discussed who Ho Chi Minh was inspired by?

Tell me again what was wrong about his statement and why he needs to apologize to vets?

I never said he had to apologize to anyone, read what I write not what you think I said so you can construct and win your own argument.

read the question I asked wry, and answer the one I asked you, ....its that simple....

 

[Luissa]

I do love Allan West and others are calling it a gaffe.

Not a big fan of Mother Jones, but here is a little perspective for the morons who know nothing about Vietnam.

" But Obama's comment wasn't a gaffe or insult to American war vets, as much as someone like Allen West would like it to be. What Obama said is literally a historical fact. In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the "The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson. Here's the excerpt:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out | Mother Jones
I am guessing this is what they were discussing Trajan.


So first off was Obama correct in saying he was inspired by Jefferson? And second did obama only say they discussed who Ho Chi Minh was inspired by?

Tell me again what was wrong about his statement and why he needs to apologize to vets?

I never said he had to apologize to anyone, read what I write not what you think I said so you can construct and win your own argument.

read the question I asked wry, and answer the one I asked you, ....its that simple....

I never said you said he needed to apologize. Reading into what I said now too?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I do love Allan West and others are calling it a gaffe.

Not a big fan of Mother Jones, but here is a little perspective for the morons who know nothing about Vietnam.

" But Obama's comment wasn't a gaffe or insult to American war vets, as much as someone like Allen West would like it to be. What Obama said is literally a historical fact. In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the "The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson. Here's the excerpt:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out | Mother Jones
I am guessing this is what they were discussing Trajan.


So first off was Obama correct in saying he was inspired by Jefferson? And second did obama only say they discussed who Ho Chi Minh was inspired by?

Tell me again what was wrong about his statement and why he needs to apologize to vets?

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Obviously a history buff. Correct on all counts.

meaning what exactly?

Meaning it is what it is. Ho was prgmatic. He had confidence that he could adapt and adjust to whatever label was put on whatever "form" of government was set up after the French were gone. Elections and democracy would not be a problem. He knew he could win elections. He would be the "Washington" of Vietnam.

And yet the elections schedule for 1956 never happened. See:

Vietnam War - Facts from the Encyclopedia - Yahoo! Education

The entire Fiasco was a result of the RED SCARE and cost the lives of 58,000 + Americans. A number of whom I went to school with, served with and carried to the National Cemetery at San Bruno, CA.

 

[Trajan]

Boy are you ignorant! I guess that comes with watching Fox 'News'.

See:

Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam

thx for not reading any of the posts in between and going straight to inane...

so tell, me how did he apply the tenets/axions/principals of the declaration of independence to north Vietnam or south there after its fall?


I'll wait, take your time....

Obama wasn't making that point.
All he said was they discussed it. I really had no idea you were so into the faux outrage topics.

Obama didn't say Ho Chi Minh applied the principles of the Declaration of Independents or Thomas Jefferson. He didn't even compare him to the Founding Fathers. All he said was that they discussed that he was inspired by them.
Tell me again why this news or a big deal? Oh! Wait! It isn't.

I can say I am inspired by god or billy graham then go shoot or work to death 500.000 people or put people into reeducation camps, why on earth would anyone reach back 70 years to make a point that has ZERO bearing on my actions, in fact quite the opposite?

so if he didn't practice apply any of them whats the point? what compliment or approval could possibly be forthcoming or found?

 

[Trajan]

meaning what exactly?

Meaning it is what it is. Ho was prgmatic. He had confidence that he could adapt and adjust to whatever label was put on whatever "form" of government was set up after the French were gone. Elections and democracy would not be a problem. He knew he could win elections. He would be the "Washington" of Vietnam.

And yet the elections schedule for 1956 never happened. See:

Vietnam War - Facts from the Encyclopedia - Yahoo! Education

The entire Fiasco was a result of the RED SCARE and cost the lives of 58,000 + Americans. A number of whom I went to school with, served with and carried to the National Cemetery at San Bruno, CA.

what does that have to do with any of this?

 

[Trajan]

Yeah, okay.

I am the one who brought it up to show horrible Obama is. All the right has to do is mention dead vets and you guys go into full faux outrage retard mode.

that wasn't the case here and whatever does that have to do with what I asked you?

stop trying to tell me I am wrong to think obama said something inane and dumb, tell me why its not inane and dumb.....

How is it dumb?
He stated they discussed that Ho Chi Minh was inspired by the US, which is pretty well known. He was correct in saying so, and all he said was he discussed it.

It is wrong, because it is stupid. The faux outrage over this crap is the number one problem with the right.
Obama didn't lie or make it up, and the right goes into this crazy mode. It happens way too much, and some of us are sick of it. Your ignorance is damaging.

then only one losing their crackers here is you.....

I never ever said he made it up, again, read what I write....

you spend more time it appears telling people why they are in crazy mode or outraged ( your word) objecting to this than than addressing the issue.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Meaning it is what it is. Ho was prgmatic. He had confidence that he could adapt and adjust to whatever label was put on whatever "form" of government was set up after the French were gone. Elections and democracy would not be a problem. He knew he could win elections. He would be the "Washington" of Vietnam.

And yet the elections schedule for 1956 never happened. See:

Vietnam War - Facts from the Encyclopedia - Yahoo! Education

The entire Fiasco was a result of the RED SCARE and cost the lives of 58,000 + Americans. A number of whom I went to school with, served with and carried to the National Cemetery at San Bruno, CA.

what does that have to do with any of this?

Nothing to you, apparently. It is history to those who weren't born and a recall of current events to me. Should I simply ignore those who chose to revise history? Sorry, that won't happen. Oral history is important, and vital if we are to avoid making the same mistakes over and over and over.

 

[Luissa]

that wasn't the case here and whatever does that have to do with what I asked you?

stop trying to tell me I am wrong to think obama said something inane and dumb, tell me why its not inane and dumb.....

How is it dumb?
He stated they discussed that Ho Chi Minh was inspired by the US, which is pretty well known. He was correct in saying so, and all he said was he discussed it.

It is wrong, because it is stupid. The faux outrage over this crap is the number one problem with the right.
Obama didn't lie or make it up, and the right goes into this crazy mode. It happens way too much, and some of us are sick of it. Your ignorance is damaging.

then only one losing their crackers here is you.....

I never ever said he made it up, again, read what I write....

you spend more time it appears telling people why they are in crazy mode or outraged ( your word) objecting to this than than addressing the issue.

What issue is that may I ask? That he discussed Ho Chi Minh with the President of Vietnam?

 

[Luissa]

thx for not reading any of the posts in between and going straight to inane...

so tell, me how did he apply the tenets/axions/principals of the declaration of independence to north Vietnam or south there after its fall?


I'll wait, take your time....

Obama wasn't making that point.
All he said was they discussed it. I really had no idea you were so into the faux outrage topics.

Obama didn't say Ho Chi Minh applied the principles of the Declaration of Independents or Thomas Jefferson. He didn't even compare him to the Founding Fathers. All he said was that they discussed that he was inspired by them.
Tell me again why this news or a big deal? Oh! Wait! It isn't.

I can say I am inspired by god or billy graham then go shoot or work to death 500.000 people or put people into reeducation camps, why on earth would anyone reach back 70 years to make a point that has ZERO bearing on my actions, in fact quite the opposite?

so if he didn't practice apply any of them whats the point? what compliment or approval could possibly be forthcoming or found?

They discussed it, that is the point.

 

[Luissa]

I do love Allan West and others are calling it a gaffe.

Not a big fan of Mother Jones, but here is a little perspective for the morons who know nothing about Vietnam.

" But Obama's comment wasn't a gaffe or insult to American war vets, as much as someone like Allen West would like it to be. What Obama said is literally a historical fact. In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the "The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson. Here's the excerpt:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out | Mother Jones
I am guessing this is what they were discussing Trajan.


So first off was Obama correct in saying he was inspired by Jefferson? And second did obama only say they discussed who Ho Chi Minh was inspired by?

Tell me again what was wrong about his statement and why he needs to apologize to vets?

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

 

[Camp]

If the President of the United States meets with the President or leader of another nation, and is shown a historical document by that leader that shows what that leader and his nation perceives as some sort of positive historical linkage to the two nations, would'nt it be diplomaticly appropriate for the President of the United States to at least mention it? It would surely be an insult to ignore it, would it not?

 

[Vandalshandle]

If the President of the United States meets with the President or leader of another nation, and is shown a historical document by that leader that shows what that leader and his nation perceives as some sort of positive historical linkage to the two nations, would'nt it be diplomaticly appropriate for the President of the United States to at least mention it? It would surely be an insult to ignore it, would it not?

You have to understand that the war isn't over according to Fox News, which is really ironic, because North Vietnam holds "Favored Nation Tading Status" with us. Perhaps Fox would prefer that we glare at them while signing such trade agreements. On thing is for sure. I bought them, and I am not going to return my "Made in North Vietnam" shirts that I own.

 

[Camp]

Ha ha, shirts made in N. Vietnam. I still have a lifetime supply of POW/MIA t-shirts that were made in the USA back in the 80's and 90's. I collected them and still have a footlocker full of them, mostly never worn. Good ol' Jersey Brand. Can't find that quality anymore unless you want to spend a fortune for a t-shirt.

 

[Trajan]

If the President of the United States meets with the President or leader of another nation, and is shown a historical document by that leader that shows what that leader and his nation perceives as some sort of positive historical linkage to the two nations, would'nt it be diplomaticly appropriate for the President of the United States to at least mention it? It would surely be an insult to ignore it, would it not?

I am at a loss as to why he'd bring it up? how could that be seen as 'favorable'? a linkage with absolutely no foundation in reality other then he paid lip service to a concept he never practiced, it was in fact the antithesis ...its like me saying to Putin; ' I am so glad Stalin created those (Potemkin) villages for your people'.....



( yes I know it was originally to fool Catherine, I am speaking to the 20,30's practice )...

 

[Trajan]

If the President of the United States meets with the President or leader of another nation, and is shown a historical document by that leader that shows what that leader and his nation perceives as some sort of positive historical linkage to the two nations, would'nt it be diplomaticly appropriate for the President of the United States to at least mention it? It would surely be an insult to ignore it, would it not?

You have to understand that the war isn't over according to Fox News, which is really ironic, because North Vietnam holds "Favored Nation Tading Status" with us. Perhaps Fox would prefer that we glare at them while signing such trade agreements. On thing is for sure. I bought them, and I am not going to return my "Made in North Vietnam" shirts that I own.

you mean Vietnam's favored trading status, its 'united' now