Obama: Vietnam Leader Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers

[Trajan]

I do love Allan West and others are calling it a gaffe.

Not a big fan of Mother Jones, but here is a little perspective for the morons who know nothing about Vietnam.

" But Obama's comment wasn't a gaffe or insult to American war vets, as much as someone like Allen West would like it to be. What Obama said is literally a historical fact. In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the "The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson. Here's the excerpt:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out | Mother Jones
I am guessing this is what they were discussing Trajan.


So first off was Obama correct in saying he was inspired by Jefferson? And second did obama only say they discussed who Ho Chi Minh was inspired by?

Tell me again what was wrong about his statement and why he needs to apologize to vets?

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

he actually had a bigger problem with the original plan of Chinese nationalists ( Chiang Kai-shek) disarming the Japanese....Ho once said- “I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life" translated loosely


and thats a good point except- you can show what Jefferson did, not just his words on paper....Ho?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I do love Allan West and others are calling it a gaffe.

Not a big fan of Mother Jones, but here is a little perspective for the morons who know nothing about Vietnam.

" But Obama's comment wasn't a gaffe or insult to American war vets, as much as someone like Allen West would like it to be. What Obama said is literally a historical fact. In September 1945, Ho Chi Minh delivered the Declaration of Independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi to a crowd of nearly a million Vietnamese. Not only was the "The Star-Spangled Banner" played by a Vietnamese band during his address, but he opens his speech by quoting Thomas Jefferson. Here's the excerpt:

"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out | Mother Jones
I am guessing this is what they were discussing Trajan.


So first off was Obama correct in saying he was inspired by Jefferson? And second did obama only say they discussed who Ho Chi Minh was inspired by?

Tell me again what was wrong about his statement and why he needs to apologize to vets?

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

Not to call you a liar, but the French were not in his homeland when he gave the speech. The "Vietnamese Declaration of Independence" was delivered after Ho Chi Min led a coup against the legitimate government of Vietnam.

You should get your information from someplace other than the website of the communist party.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If the President of the United States meets with the President or leader of another nation, and is shown a historical document by that leader that shows what that leader and his nation perceives as some sort of positive historical linkage to the two nations, would'nt it be diplomaticly appropriate for the President of the United States to at least mention it? It would surely be an insult to ignore it, would it not?

If that actually happened I would agree with you, since it didn't I find myself a bit confused abut what the fuck it is you are talking about.

 

[Pheonixops]

This is insanity. Is Obama that ignorant or just that determined to kiss the butts of dictators?

I thought Obama studied the constitution. How did he see it as a thumbs up to dictatorship?

Stirewalt believes that the comments were either a gaffe and that the president didn't know about the atrocities committed by Ho Chi Minh or that he was being "morally flexible" to make his guest feel at home.

Obama: Vietnam Leader Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers

Read more: President Obama Says That Vietnam?s Communist Dictator Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers | Fox News Insider

Well, sorry to say that I hate to disappoint the reactionaries; but that does have some basis in fact.

"The phrase can also be found in Chapter III, Article 13 of the 1947 Constitution of Japan, and in President Ho Chi Minh's 1945 declaration of independence of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. "

"On August 30, 1945, Hồ Chí Minh invited several people to contribute their ideas toward his Proclamation of Independence. OSS officers met repeatedly with Ho Chi Minh and other Viet Minh officers during late August and Archimedes Patti claims to listened to Ho read to him a draft of the Proclamation which he believed sounded very similar to the American Declaration of Independence.[3]

On September 2, 1945, Hồ Chí Minh read the Proclamation during a public meeting in front of thousands of people, at what is now Ba Đình Square, Hà Nội, announcing the birth of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the country's independence from France."

Ooooops............

 

[Pheonixops]

Wow, this is pretty fucked up?

Really a man that killed millions of people for wanting freedom=our founders.

How many people died under Our Founding Fathers reign and during the Revolutionary War? They weren't fighting a foreign occupying force?

 

[Pheonixops]

please tell me the point of his remark...

His point was him and the vietnamese President discussed how Ho Chi Minh was influenced by our founding fathers.
That is all he said, that was his point. Get over it.

I'll get over it when you tell me why he made the remark..... it was clearly meant as a positive....he would not have said it as an insult or to demean ..right..?

how would that conversation have gone? "hey you know Jefferson inspired ho, he quoted from our declaration of indy.....but he never employed any of the meaning".....

So why mention even a very small part of a document where in the man who wrote it never ever lived up to any of the tenets Jefferson and our declaration encompassed and expressed?

How long did it finally take Our country to live up to those tenets???

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Ho Chi Minh was a true mystic warrior.

 

[Luissa]

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

he actually had a bigger problem with the original plan of Chinese nationalists ( Chiang Kai-shek) disarming the Japanese....Ho once said- “I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life" translated loosely


and thats a good point except- you can show what Jefferson did, not just his words on paper....Ho?

I am not trying to compare Ho Chi Minh, I am just pointing out how he could be inspired by Jefferson.
Either way it doesn't matter, all Obama said was they discussed it. It's not an issue.

 

[Wildman]

I'm pretty sure that Mussalini inspired Bush.

who the fuck is Mussalini ??????

 

[Luissa]

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

Not to call you a liar, but the French were not in his homeland when he gave the speech. The "Vietnamese Declaration of Independence" was delivered after Ho Chi Min led a coup against the legitimate government of Vietnam.

You should get your information from someplace other than the website of the communist party.

Did I claim he did? You can't call me a liar because I never stated that and Vietnam was a French colony when Ho Chi Minh he returned to Vietnam. Was Vietnam not a French colony when Ho Chi Minh returned?
Like usual, you are trying to put words in my mouth, and looking like an idiot.
Also like I stated when I posted the link I don't like Mother Jones and today was the first time I read the site in probably a year.
Instead of trying to act intelligent read what people post instead of going full retard.

 

[Luissa]

It is not a historical fact unless you can show me that Ho Chi Min actually believed the words he wrote. Since he is pretty famous, even among the Mother Jones crowd, for being a tyrant and anti freedom, he wasn't actually inspired by them, he used their words to gain a political advantage.

That, by the way, is why I am contemptuous of your viewpoint.

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

Not to call you a liar, but the French were not in his homeland when he gave the speech. The "Vietnamese Declaration of Independence" was delivered after Ho Chi Min led a coup against the legitimate government of Vietnam.

You should get your information from someplace other than the website of the communist party.

And as for your statement the French were not in his country, I think you need to take a history lesson then look up August Revolution.
He delivered the speech after they protested/fought against colonial rule and forced The Emperor to step down.
Like I said, don't go full retard.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

Not to call you a liar, but the French were not in his homeland when he gave the speech. The "Vietnamese Declaration of Independence" was delivered after Ho Chi Min led a coup against the legitimate government of Vietnam.

You should get your information from someplace other than the website of the communist party.

Did I claim he did? You can't call me a liar because I never stated that and Vietnam was a French colony when Ho Chi Minh he returned to Vietnam. Was Vietnam not a French colony when Ho Chi Minh returned?
Like usual, you are trying to put words in my mouth, and looking like an idiot.
Also like I stated when I posted the link I don't like Mother Jones and today was the first time I read the site in probably a year.
Instead of trying to act intelligent read what people post instead of going full retard.

You just said that Ho Chi Min fought against the control of the French, he didn't. The "August Revolution" was a lot more like Iraq would have been like if we had gone in, took down Saddam Hussein, and left. There was a massive power vacuum after we beat Japan in WWII, and the Viet Minh stepped in and seized the government offices, forcing the Emperor to abdicate. It was after this that Ho Chi Minh gave his little speech which was not a Declaration of Independence so much as it was an announcement of the plan to nationalize all foreign businesses and an excuse to torture foreigners and everyone he declared to be an enemy of the state. If you want to know who inspired him I suggest you look to Stalin, not Jefferson.

This is history, try reading it sometime. If pointing out the truth when you say something that is patently false is putting words in your mouth, get over it because people will always be putting words in your mouth.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not to defend Ho Chi Minh, but he had a problem with the French being in his homeland and fought against their control when he returned. Wasn't Vietnam a French colony?
Didn't Jefferson fight against being a British colony? Didn't he fight for the US independence?

It doesn't take much to connect how Minh was inspired by Jefferson. Marx praised Lincoln, doesn't mean anyone would suggest he was anything close to Lincoln. And stating Marx praised him isn't disrespecting civil war vets etc..

This isn't an issue which is the point, you, West, and Trajan are too wrapped in your hate for Obama to see that.

Not to call you a liar, but the French were not in his homeland when he gave the speech. The "Vietnamese Declaration of Independence" was delivered after Ho Chi Min led a coup against the legitimate government of Vietnam.

You should get your information from someplace other than the website of the communist party.

And as for your statement the French were not in his country, I think you need to take a history lesson then look up August Revolution.
He delivered the speech after they protested/fought against colonial rule and forced The Emperor to step down.
Like I said, don't go full retard.

I just explained what the August Revolution was, it had nothing to do with France.

In case you were sleeping during your history classes in school, France was an occupied country during WWII, and were officially the enemies of Japan, which was the country that was actually occupying that part of the world at the time. Quite a few French citizens were in Vietnam at the time, and the Japanese used them as liaisons, but it would take someone a lot more ignorant than I am to buy into the idea that France had any power over what happened in Vietnam when they couldn't even control what happened in Paris.

 

[ABikerSailor]

why are obama supporters avoiding this thread?

I'm not.

I'm just wondering when you're going to provide evidence of the blood soaked imperialistic rule that Obama has instituted.

 

[JoeB131]

so not one single obama supporter can defend his statement

yawn

Not sure what there is to defend.


We all hat Ho Chi Mihn because he handed us our asses in a war.

Just like Geo. Washington did to the British.

The ironic thing is, we haven't "gotten over it". The Vietnamese have pretty much moved on, we haven't.

 

[JoeB131]

Best friend the NLF ever had was Walter Cronkite....that asshole saw what we did to them during the Tet and yet called them the winners. My team was assigned to show ol Walter the area around Dak To that had been deforrested....pulled us off something important to bodyguard his ass on a dog and pony bit for CBS....he never showed....drunk on his ass in a Saigon bar. Meanwhile a the line-unit we were supposed to do a recon for got hit and chewed on pretty good....that's on him.

Yeah, right.

Hey, guy, you can't blame the media or the hippies or anyone else who just pointed out the absurdity of the thing.

The reality was, Vietnamese saw Ho Chi Mihn as a hero who had fought against the hated French and Japanese, and the guys WE propped up, when they weren't murdering each other, were collaborators.

The reason why Tet was so devastating was that the Army lied to the Press for years about how they had everything under control, and they were making progress, and the NFL caught them with their pants around their ankles.

 

[percysunshine]

Obama said that? Lauding someone responsible for the murder of 5 million people is more Joe Bidens style.

 

[JoeB131]

WHOA!… Obama Links Founding Fathers to Communist Tyrant and Murderer Ho Chi Minh

by Jim Hoft
July 25, 2013

What did we do to deserve this?
We now have a sitting president linking our Founding Fathers to a Communist tyrant, murderer and enemy of America.
Unbelievable!


Barack Obama believes communist and murderer Ho Chi Minh was influenced by our Founding Fathers.

Has Barack ever heard of the Killing Fields?

]

Ho Chi Mihn had nothing to do with the Killing Field.

Ho Chi Mihn was in Vietnam. The Killing Fields were in Cambodia.

Ho Chi Mihn died in 1969. The Killing Fields didn't happen until 1975.

Do let's talk about what really happened in the Killing Fields.

Cambodia wanted no part of our war in Vietnam. Unfortunately, the NOrth Vietnamese were smuggling weapons through their territory, and we were trying to intradict them by violating Cambodian territory ourselves.

When the leader of Cambodia, Norodom Sihanouk, objected to this, we staged a coup against him. The guy we left in charge of the country was a complete boob who let Nixon bomb the hell out of Cambodia, driving millions out of their home and creating thousands of recruits for the batshit crazy Khmer Rouge, which, again, had nothing to do with Vietnam.

Well, eventually, public Opinion demanded we get out of that mess, not because we cared all that much about the millions of Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians who were being killed, but because Americans were getting drafted and killed over there. So we left, and the dumb ass puppet governments we left behind lasted only a few years.

In the case of the Khmer Rouge, which had nothing to do with Ho Chi Mihn, they decided their interpretation was to reduce the country to an agrarian state and get revenge on the city dwellers.

And do you know who finally put an end to their slaughter of their own people?

The Vietnamese Army. Imagine that.

 

[Osomir]

Ho Chi Minh like George Washington was a patriotic nationalist who believed in freeing his people from tyranny and foreign oppression. ..

What a terribly bad conclusion. 80 to 100 million people died in the 20th century via communist governments. Your commie hero was no Washington.

He was a major founding father of an independent Vietnam State, much the same way that President Washington was one of the founding father's of an independent US state. They are both national icons to their people and represent images of patriotism and the founding of the country.

 

[Osomir]

In freeing his people Ho Chi Minh practically destroyed the Hmong, and Montagnard populations. Perhaps people don't remember. Khmer Rouge were originally a Viet Minh lead organization that broke off from the leadership of Hanoi, took over Cambodia and genocide ensued under Pot Pol. The idea was to be rid of the intelligentsia.

And under Pol Pot they also focused on persecuting ethnic Vietnamese, so I'm not sure why you want to link the two, especially when it was Vietnam who invaded Cambodia and toppled them. The ethnic persecution against peoples like the Hmong was / is horrible, We ourselves have done / supported the same though throughout history from our founding, to the Cold War. The Hmong fought on our side during the war, of course they are going to face persecution however wrong it might be.