Obamacare lead story on CNN

[brummelben]

I've lived in a country with a REAL government insurance program. I'm sure you've been asked to research them before. The fact is that a FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE person who wants to reduce his own health care related tax burden would be insane to oppose single payer universal health care. The only reasons one opposes that is an UNWARRANTED fear of government and a fear that someone who earns less $$ might get the same health care that they get.

Car insurance? Please.

The operative words in your post are "health care related tax burden".
You are so entitlement minded, you have no concept of what fiscal conservatism is. Not a clue.

There should be NO "health care related tax burden" to pay for the healthcare of healthy Americans!

I'm all for supporting those with catastrophic illnesses or injuries, and I'm all for supporting our elders.

Everyone else should be paying their own freight. Period. They should be picking up the phone and calling any insurance company they wish, and buying whatever health insurance coverage they wish.

Just like they do with auto, life, and home insurance.

They need to be freed from the hostage-taking entitlement heads like yourself.

Isn't that how it was before Obamacare?

Nope. It was NOT that way before ObamaCare. The American people have been held hostage by their employers in a take-it-or-leave-it condition for decades. They are forced into that condition by the US government meddling in the private markets.

Were you happy with that system?

I was not happy with the status quo. Hell no. That's exactly why I am equally angry at the Republicans for doing NOTHING about it.

I agree with you about the employer programs, and i'm not happy with the current ACA, It needs serious reform. I don't think healthcare should be completely private as they have proven to be reckless in the tremendous power they hold over the health and care for our citizens. It is on of the richest industries in the world. They are able to do this because of the great capitalistic society we have created. I do not think it unreasonable for there to be regulations and standards for these companies to follow that will benefit our citizens... esp for the less fortunate.

I'm all for SMART regulation, not MORE regulation.

Auto, life, and home insurance have not been skyrocketing. In fact, while cars have been getting more and more expensive, auto insurance has been going down.

So the problem isn't insurance companies. It's the vast meddling in health markets by the government which is the cause. We know this because that is the only insurance market where the government is a big player.

Not just a big player. The biggest player.

And it gets to write all the rules for its competitors. How's that working out?

It would be as if GEICO was allowed to write the rules Allstate and Progressive and State Farm and all the rest had to follow.

We need LESS government in healthcare. Not more.

Here's the thing. The more you centralize power, the easier you make it to capture. And yet the Left continues to make it easier and easier for others to capture control over every aspect of our lives. To hold us hostage. They have been doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

You had your wish before the ACA, private insurers set the rules. Do you remember lifetime caps, or pre existing conditions, or 40% of every dollar written off to overhead. To the private insurers its profits over people and will always be so long as the profit motive is there.
The government does a fine job with insurance, far better than private companies- just look to Medicare as an example

 

[g5000]

Here's the thing. The more you centralize power, the easier you make it to capture. And yet the Left continues to make it easier and easier for others to capture control over every aspect of our lives. To hold us hostage. They have been doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Sounds like insanity ;-)

It is.

That's why I'm a conservative. I just can't be that stupid or crazy. It goes against my nature.

You think we should treat health insurance like car insurance. That is stupid and crazy. It must be in your nature.

And yet you have been completely unable to explain why it is crazy.

Hmmmm...

 

[LoneLaugher]

Here's the thing. The more you centralize power, the easier you make it to capture. And yet the Left continues to make it easier and easier for others to capture control over every aspect of our lives. To hold us hostage. They have been doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Sounds like insanity ;-)

It is.

That's why I'm a conservative. I just can't be that stupid or crazy. It goes against my nature.

You think we should treat health insurance like car insurance. That is stupid and crazy. It must be in your nature.

And yet you have been completely unable to explain why it is crazy.

Hmmmm...

I explained it earlier.

Simply put.....we send really sick cars to the junkyard. They are CARS!!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Here's the thing. The more you centralize power, the easier you make it to capture. And yet the Left continues to make it easier and easier for others to capture control over every aspect of our lives. To hold us hostage. They have been doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Sounds like insanity ;-)

It is.

That's why I'm a conservative. I just can't be that stupid or crazy. It goes against my nature.

You think we should treat health insurance like car insurance. That is stupid and crazy. It must be in your nature.

And yet you have been completely unable to explain why it is crazy.

Hmmmm...

I explained it earlier.

Simply put.....we send really sick cars to the junkyard. They are CARS!!

Nurse: "Mr. Jones, the doctor will see you now"

Bob: "Thanks! Hi Doc....how is she?"

Doc Smitty "Well, Bob, it's not good". "We are going to have to do a complete engine transplant". "Since she's 1934 Olds...the parts aren't readily available." "It's going to cost about 10 times more than you paid when you bought her new."

Bob: "But Doc, I don't have an extended warranty plan...I only bought the collision coverage!" "What am I gonna tell the kids?"

 

[AntonToo]

I've lived in a country with a REAL government insurance program. I'm sure you've been asked to research them before. The fact is that a FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE person who wants to reduce his own health care related tax burden would be insane to oppose single payer universal health care. The only reasons one opposes that is an UNWARRANTED fear of government and a fear that someone who earns less $$ might get the same health care that they get.

Car insurance? Please.

The operative words in your post are "health care related tax burden".
You are so entitlement minded, you have no concept of what fiscal conservatism is. Not a clue.

There should be NO "health care related tax burden" to pay for the healthcare of healthy Americans!

I'm all for supporting those with catastrophic illnesses or injuries, and I'm all for supporting our elders.

Everyone else should be paying their own freight. Period. They should be picking up the phone and calling any insurance company they wish, and buying whatever health insurance coverage they wish.

Just like they do with auto, life, and home insurance.

They need to be freed from the hostage-taking entitlement heads like yourself.

Isn't that how it was before Obamacare?

Nope. It was NOT that way before ObamaCare. The American people have been held hostage by their employers in a take-it-or-leave-it condition for decades. They are forced into that condition by the US government meddling in the private markets.

Were you happy with that system?

I was not happy with the status quo. Hell no. That's exactly why I am equally angry at the Republicans for doing NOTHING about it.

I agree with you about the employer programs, and i'm not happy with the current ACA, It needs serious reform. I don't think healthcare should be completely private as they have proven to be reckless in the tremendous power they hold over the health and care for our citizens. It is on of the richest industries in the world. They are able to do this because of the great capitalistic society we have created. I do not think it unreasonable for there to be regulations and standards for these companies to follow that will benefit our citizens... esp for the less fortunate.

I'm all for SMART regulation, not MORE regulation.

Auto, life, and home insurance have not been skyrocketing. In fact, while cars have been getting more and more expensive, auto insurance has been going down.

So the problem isn't insurance companies. It's the vast meddling in health markets by the government which is the cause. We know this because that is the only insurance market where the government is a big player.

Not just a big player. The biggest player.

And it gets to write all the rules for its competitors. How's that working out?

It would be as if GEICO was allowed to write the rules Allstate and Progressive and State Farm and all the rest had to follow.

We need LESS government in healthcare. Not more.

Here's the thing. The more you centralize power, the easier you make it to capture. And yet the Left continues to make it easier and easier for others to capture control over every aspect of our lives. To hold us hostage. They have been doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

Car insurance is not comparative, because car related risk is fundamentally DIFFERENT from healthcare risk. The costs simply do not growth the same between these two sectors.

Cars have gotten safer, so there is a decline in injury payouts. Real car prices and repairs have not gotten more expensive.

Healthcare costs on the other hand are consistently way ahead of income growth. People live longer today thanks to advancing medicine that keeps them alive longer, but this advancement has a COST that gets reflected in the premiums. You can throw into that our aging population.


Speaking of car insurance - it is MANDATORY.

 

[AntonToo]

...slowdown in healthcare spending increases...

Just look at that. That's the confirmation of the bait-and-switch I warned about right there.

Look at those words. "...slowdown in healthcare SPENDING INCREASES..."

In other words, costs are still climbing. The liberals couch the increases in a lot of smoke. And like it or not, ObamaCare was front loaded with tax increases for four years before it launched the subsidies.

What we are seeing now are the real time costs. And they are catastrophic. And for the states, they will get even more catastrophic in 2019.

During the ObamaCare debates before its passage, one of the chief arguments made by the pro-Obamacare rubes was that we have the highest per capita spending on healthcare in the developed world.

It was heavily implied that health care costs would GO DOWN. It was NEVER said there would be a "slowdown in spending increases".

This has been one of the biggest boondoggle bait-and-switch cons ever pulled on the American people.

Yearly increases were greater before the law passed. That is a simple fact.

Personal question. How do you procure health insurance?

Don't make it mandatory... dip shit

Dipshit it DOESN'T WORK without the mandate.

You can have poor access to health insurance and no mandate (that's what we had)

OR you can have unconditional access to insurance with a mandate (which is what we have now).

You can't have both because people will simply forgo insurance until they get sick.

If you recall Obama was actually AGAINST personal mandate, but the reality of how this healthcare insurance puzzle works out has changed his mind.

 

[woolster22]

The biggest problem with healthcare is cost. A simple screw, to repair a fracture, cab cost a $1000, and thats simply the cost billed for the screw, let alone the surgeon, anesthia and anesthethia specialists (often in the room for 15 minutes, billed at a grand for said time), nurses, etc. Many hospitals use various kits (suture kits, endo kits, cardio kits, on and on it goes) of which certain surgeons prefer buts and pieces of each. The unused portions go in the garbage, and guess who gets billed? All these kits are obscenely marked up, and there hasnt been downward pressure for years, because Insurance Cos dont care, theyll get theirs. Health care providers dont care because theyll get theirs, Govt doesnt care because theyre getting theirs from lobbies, and most people are too stupid to care or simply dont realise the costs they are being billed for.

That is the biggest, and most obscene problem with health care today. Ill be generous and say that previously mentioned screw costs $20 to manufacture (id lean towards 5 being generous). That would be a 5000% mark up.

Then we have prescriptions, and the kickbacks prescribers recieve. Anyone living in a state with an "opiate epidemic," has nobody but the govt and Doctors/Physicians to blame. The pills that lead to all this are controlled substances, requiring a prescription to obtain. Why a doctor is not able to check and see what scripts a patient has been prescribed in the last year, hell, 2 months, is absurd. Big pharma has deep pockets, and that gravy train wont be stopped any time soon.

EDIT:
My wife is an RN, and has to bill these charges to each patient/coverage provider.

 

[AntonToo]

The biggest problem with healthcare is cost. A simple screw, to repair a fracture, cab cost a $1000, and thats simply the cost billed for the screw, let alone the surgeon, anesthia and anesthethia specialists (often in the room for 15 minutes, billed at a grand for said time), nurses, etc. Many hospitals use various kits (suture kits, endo kits, cardio kits, on and on it goes) of which certain surgeons prefer buts and pieces of each. The unused portions go in the garbage, and guess who gets billed? All these kits are obscenely marked up, and there hasnt been downward pressure for years, because Insurance Cos dont care, theyll get theirs. Health care providers dont care because theyll get theirs, Govt doesnt care because theyre getting theirs from lobbies, and most people are too stupid to care or simply dont realise the costs they are being billed for.

That is the biggest, and most obscene problem with health care today. Ill be generous and say that previously mentioned screw costs $20 to manufacture (id lean towards 5 being generous). That would be a 5000% mark up.

Then we have prescriptions, and the kickbacks prescribers recieve. Anyone living in a state with an "opiate epidemic," has nobody but the govt and Doctors/Physicians to blame. The pills that lead to all this are controlled substances, requiring a prescription to obtain. Why a doctor is not able to check and see what scripts a patient has been prescribed in the last year, hell, 2 months, is absurd. Big pharma has deep pockets, and that gravy train wont be stopped any time soon.

Yes, and this is the primary shortcoming of ACA reform. Shortcoming that CAN be addressed, but requires Republicans to drop the politico repeal-repeal-repeal shtick that will do nothing to alleviate this problem and commit to constructive co-operation to make a real difference in the state of our healthcare system.

 

[Norman]

Why is the Clinton News Network CNN leading each program with the Obamacare rate hikes as the lead story? I thought the MSM was rigged and in the tank for Clinton. How does this make sense?

CNN has done its fair share of rigging... and if they improve their ways that is good. However, pointing to a single story is not much evidence of anything.

 

[woolster22]

The biggest problem with healthcare is cost. A simple screw, to repair a fracture, cab cost a $1000, and thats simply the cost billed for the screw, let alone the surgeon, anesthia and anesthethia specialists (often in the room for 15 minutes, billed at a grand for said time), nurses, etc. Many hospitals use various kits (suture kits, endo kits, cardio kits, on and on it goes) of which certain surgeons prefer buts and pieces of each. The unused portions go in the garbage, and guess who gets billed? All these kits are obscenely marked up, and there hasnt been downward pressure for years, because Insurance Cos dont care, theyll get theirs. Health care providers dont care because theyll get theirs, Govt doesnt care because theyre getting theirs from lobbies, and most people are too stupid to care or simply dont realise the costs they are being billed for.

That is the biggest, and most obscene problem with health care today. Ill be generous and say that previously mentioned screw costs $20 to manufacture (id lean towards 5 being generous). That would be a 5000% mark up.

Then we have prescriptions, and the kickbacks prescribers recieve. Anyone living in a state with an "opiate epidemic," has nobody but the govt and Doctors/Physicians to blame. The pills that lead to all this are controlled substances, requiring a prescription to obtain. Why a doctor is not able to check and see what scripts a patient has been prescribed in the last year, hell, 2 months, is absurd. Big pharma has deep pockets, and that gravy train wont be stopped any time soon.

Yes, and this is the primary shortcoming of ACA reform. Shortcoming that CAN be addressed, but requires Republicans to drop the politico repeal-repeal-repeal shtick that will do nothing to alleviate this problem and commit to constructive co-operation to make a real difference in the state of our healthcare system.

How could ACA be reasonably changed to accomplish this? Why would either side of the aisle be interested with all the pharma/insurance corp $ floating around?

Why does each coverage provide hammer out a predetermined cost for a procedure with every health care provider in their network? If you do not state you are insured, you can haggle the price of treatment, often anazingly cheaper than the "insured" rate. I havent asked in a while, but last year, simply sitting in a ER bed cost 800 dollars, before anyone sees you, whether they are busy or a ghost town.

 

[Rustic]

The media has thrown softballs to every progressive politician in favor of Obamacare… Fact

 

[Rustic]

I've lived in a country with a REAL government insurance program. I'm sure you've been asked to research them before. The fact is that a FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE person who wants to reduce his own health care related tax burden would be insane to oppose single payer universal health care. The only reasons one opposes that is an UNWARRANTED fear of government and a fear that someone who earns less $$ might get the same health care that they get.

Car insurance? Please.

The operative words in your post are "health care related tax burden".
You are so entitlement minded, you have no concept of what fiscal conservatism is. Not a clue.

There should be NO "health care related tax burden" to pay for the healthcare of healthy Americans!

I'm all for supporting those with catastrophic illnesses or injuries, and I'm all for supporting our elders.

Everyone else should be paying their own freight. Period. They should be picking up the phone and calling any insurance company they wish, and buying whatever health insurance coverage they wish.

Just like they do with auto, life, and home insurance.

They need to be freed from the hostage-taking entitlement heads like yourself.

Isn't that how it was before Obamacare?

Nope. It was NOT that way before ObamaCare. The American people have been held hostage by their employers in a take-it-or-leave-it condition for decades. They are forced into that condition by the US government meddling in the private markets.

Were you happy with that system?

I was not happy with the status quo. Hell no. That's exactly why I am equally angry at the Republicans for doing NOTHING about it.

The mandate was the main rub, an "opt in" would've been a much better option if they had to pass it.
It's just absolutely insane anyone could I actually believe being forced into a fraud like Obama care is the right thing to do… LOL

The mandate was originally a right wing idea.

The only way freeloaders could afford insurance is if as many people as possible were forced to carry them. ObamaCare would implode without the mandate.

Bingo!!!
It would fail under any case but fail much faster because no one would sign up for that fucking shit… Fact

 

[Rustic]

We punish you with higher taxes for not buying a house.

We punish you with higher taxes for not buying the right kind of refrigerator.

We punish you with higher taxes for not buying the right kind of electricity.

We even punish you with higher taxes for not procreating!

It was no big leap to punish you with higher taxes for not buying the right kind of insurance.

By demanding tax expenditures for a whole host of bullshit, Republicans are just as guilty as the Democrats for creating the political environment which made the mandate possible.

See socialism cannot exist without taking something from someone else and giving nothing in return… Fact

 

[Rustic]

The fact remains, any sort of freedom/individuality cannot coexist with socialism of any sort… Fact

Of course to you, socialism means communist, ignorant dupe. Socialism in the modern sense means well regulated, fair capitalism. See scandinavia, original EU, Canada, NZ and Oz. And the US after 8 years of Hillary. See sig, PP1. We're becoming a GOP oligarchy banana republic under Reaganism- defended to the death by the New BS GOP and its dupes like you...

You have no idea why the banana republic is, this federal government pays debt with more debt and that debt with printed paper.
Anyone with any common sense knows that Obama care/single player cannot be paid for, it's far too expensive. It just adds to the debt that is dominated by socialist entitlement programs.

All those other modern countries manage health care at half the price, with better outcomes and life span. Watch out, Big Heath and Pharma. lol. You're a total dupe of Big Money. Helloooo?!?

No, I just don't expect other people to pay for my shit…

So brainwashed. It's not that at all. It's stronger together, not being duped by the greedy idiot rich, and intelligence.

Who the hell wants to pay into a pool for just anyone to take out of?

 

[Rustic]

I was asked how I procure my insurance, dipshit. And it provides some insight into the quality of government insurance and healthcare.

I've lived in a country with a REAL government insurance program. I'm sure you've been asked to research them before. The fact is that a FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE person who wants to reduce his own health care related tax burden would be insane to oppose single payer universal health care. The only reasons one opposes that is an UNWARRANTED fear of government and a fear that someone who earns less $$ might get the same health care that they get.

Car insurance? Please.

The operative words in your post are "health care related tax burden".
You are so entitlement minded, you have no concept of what fiscal conservatism is. Not a clue.

There should be NO "health care related tax burden" to pay for the healthcare of healthy Americans!

I'm all for supporting those with catastrophic illnesses or injuries, and I'm all for supporting our elders.

Everyone else should be paying their own freight. Period. They should be picking up the phone and calling any insurance company they wish, and buying whatever health insurance coverage they wish.

Just like they do with auto, life, and home insurance.

They need to be freed from the hostage-taking entitlement heads like yourself.

Isn't that how it was before Obamacare? Were you happy with that system?

Of course I was happy with the system before Obamacare, there was no fucking mandate... lol

Good for you... many many Americans where not happy with it and the corruption and abuse in the healthcare industry was running out of control. Something had to be done. Obamacare was it. I think it achieved success on a coverage level but needs a lot of work with the financials.

Why drag everyone else until the bullshit? Millions of Americans want nothing to do with that fucking corrupt piece of legislation. They should've just made it out as an "opt in" we would not be having these fucked up government control issues on the subject then.

 

[Rustic]

The liberal answer to every government fuckup. "We need MOAR government!!"

The liberal answer to every private sector fuckup. "We need MOAR government!!"

Jesus H. Christ.

I think I missed your plan for getting everyone health care. This conservative plan has some problems....which can be fixed...but it
is an improvement over what we had before it was passed.....isn't it?

I'm for Medicare for all.

What is your plan?

I'm for take care of your own shit plan... it's a shitty thing to do to take other peoples money for your own fuck ups. LOL

How did a poor kid on Medicaid fuck up?

Sins of the parents

Really? Prove it. Prove that the families, WITH JOBS, who are low income enough to be eligible for Medicaid, are there because of sin.

Starting a family works out much better if you're prepared for it financially and otherwise… But progressives don't understand that fact… LOL

 

[Rustic]

Most people using the exchanges pay less than $100 per month for premiums.

And taxpayers make up the difference. Funny how you piglets on the tit always leave that part out.

So taxpayers just got 22 percent more weight added to the ObamaCare load they are carrying.

Well done, retards!

e

Are you trying to tell us that our taxes are going up to pay for these increases? Please say that you aren't.

Where do you think subsidies come from...unicorns' asses?

The collective taking it from other people...

Should only the well off get to go to school?

Everyone should have the opportunity to go to school, just don't expect anyone else to pay for it. Fuck what are you some type a bagger?

 

[Rustic]

My post from way back when is still relevant today: Tax the rich more!




A lot of ObamaCare recipients are going to find out they are down to just one insurer on their insurance exchange.

Government hostages.

That's the flaw of there not being a public option.

The liberal answer to every government fuckup. "We need MOAR government!!"

The liberal answer to every private sector fuckup. "We need MOAR government!!"

Jesus H. Christ.

I think I missed your plan for getting everyone health care. This conservative plan has some problems....which can be fixed...but it
is an improvement over what we had before it was passed.....isn't it?

I'm for Medicare for all.

What is your plan?

I'm for take care of your own shit plan... it's a shitty thing to do to take other peoples money for your own fuck ups. LOL

You are so removed from the real world you should have your status as a human revoked.

Socialism is not reality, socialism makes people oblivious to reality then the sky falls and they say why doesn't the fucking government take care of me. That's fucked up....

 

[Rustic]

The fact remains, any sort of freedom/individuality cannot coexist with socialism of any sort… Fact

Of course to you, socialism means communist, ignorant dupe. Socialism in the modern sense means well regulated, fair capitalism. See scandinavia, original EU, Canada, NZ and Oz. And the US after 8 years of Hillary. See sig, PP1. We're becoming a GOP oligarchy banana republic under Reaganism- defended to the death by the New BS GOP and its dupes like you...

You have no idea why the banana republic is, this federal government pays debt with more debt and that debt with printed paper.
Anyone with any common sense knows that Obama care/single player cannot be paid for, it's far too expensive. It just adds to the debt that is dominated by socialist entitlement programs.

All those other modern countries manage health care at half the price, with better outcomes and life span. Watch out, Big Heath and Pharma. lol. You're a total dupe of Big Money. Helloooo?!?

No, I just don't expect other people to pay for my shit…

Guess what. You are going to be miserable in America until the day you die because what you want will never happen.

Ever. That, in a very very small way, adds to my happiness.

I do just fine, I pay for my own shit I've been debt-free for almost 20 years i sleep good at night because I don't ask for shit.

 

[Rustic]

2019. I warned you years ago.

2019 is when it all blows up.

And then the rubes will be crying out for single payer government healthcare.

"We need MOAR government!"

Single payer......the thing that rubes in every industrialized nation except ours have opted for. Such rubes!

Socialism has never worked long term in the history of the planet… Fact

Nobody is saying they want the US to be socialists. Having socialist programs in a capitalistic democracy is not the same as socialism. You are misrepresenting again.

The fact remains, any sort of freedom/individuality cannot coexist with socialism of any sort… Fact

Thats fine, what makes you think you are completely free? Nobody is... You are only free under the laws and regulations of the country you live in, the country that protects you from other countries that would otherwise come over here and kill you. There are costs to lived in a civilized society.

I said any sort of freedom, we are far from free in this country is the fact. Socialism has fucked life over