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it is you who are deluded if you think the price is lower than that in the exchange.
The cost to your employer for your insurance is staggeringly lower than it would be for you to buy insurance on the exchanges - and that cost to your employer is how "cadillac plans" are figured.
no it is NOT. you don't know either the size of my employer and the number of employees or the prices payed for the insurance.
My employer does not provide cadillac plans - I do not work for the government.
It is a standard PPO ( we have options for HMO and PPO) - which is comparable to the exchange plan under platinum coverage.
and the cost is already around 10K - and it is going to increase by 2018 because of the inflation - but the set cost of 10,200$ is specifically set to kill ALL employer-based insurance - and convert everybody to obamacare. Otherwise the price would be much higher.
because I did not always get my insurance through the employer and one can check even NOW the cost of the insurance outside the exchange - it is very possible in my state.
they were actually the same as the exchange ones.
Well, I can only speak from my own experience - which is looking like a discount of $150 a month for me.
so don't extrapolate your singular experience on everybody else.
same is pertinent for the 40% excise tax - not every employer is a size of Boeing company.
they are NOT. they are providing the highest prices as for ONE.
I get the feeling you haven't been paying attention.
Plans available on the exchange right now are without question cheaper than previously available private plans.
You truly are a deluded, brainwashed parrot.
No I haven't but I stayed at a holiday inn........
No, but I know what my employer paid and what my wife's employer pays.
I am not Shocked at the prices , I am shocked at the difference in prices, that is if , this is a big if , your plans are very very close together- you're getting the same coverage same access same deductibles, copays out-of-pocket cap and someone is saving $3200 a year ask yourself doc, does that sound right to you?
I know care and I trust you, you're not loons, but I want you to ask yourself seriously , doesn't that sound a little too good to be true ?
I'm not saying that you're not seeing what you're seeing, what I'm saying is somewhere along the line someone's going to take the pipe so that folks can get these deductions in their rates, it's got to come out somewhere somehow, there is no free lunch...... This all can't be on account of insurance companies losing the ability to deduct administrative costs etc....... And enough people haven't signed up yet to float the relative values so you can adjust the system up and down according to demand and how much cost is being spread....
3200 bucks? That's great but.......
It has to do with the risk on the part of insurance companies. Group plans purchased by employers are much cheaper because they're able to spread the risk around the group - for example, if you have a serious medical issue, that expense on the part of your insurance company can be swallowed because it's unlikely that everyone at your job will simultaneously get injured or sick.
When you buy insurance privately, you're a risk pool of one. That's why it costs so much more.
I don't know how the exchanges are mitigating the prices, but I can say with certainty that I'll save money when I switch my plan to one from the exchanges, and receive as good if not better coverage.
Right, I hear that , that's why I didn't use my own experiences, I don't have any
I guess I will do some more reading, avik Roy and Ezra Klein do an obamacare wonk U tube every few weeks,........but, you get that there has to be mitigation, a 'there', 'there', if everyone signed up in that class and used the services there would not be a balloon to squeeze, it would explode
Please read the entire article. It is interesting if you get past the headline.
That woman has insurance. She also has a good income. Her rates will go down as more people sign up.
The ACA is designed to help those who cannot get insurance....or cannot afford it.
Well, I can only speak from my own experience - which is looking like a discount of $150 a month for me.
so don't extrapolate your singular experience on everybody else.
same is pertinent for the 40% excise tax - not every employer is a size of Boeing company.
Well, anecdotal evidence is better than no evidence.
Really, you should ask your boss. I think you'll be surprised by the answer.
so don't extrapolate your singular experience on everybody else.
same is pertinent for the 40% excise tax - not every employer is a size of Boeing company.
Well, anecdotal evidence is better than no evidence.
Really, you should ask your boss. I think you'll be surprised by the answer.
I know the costs as I was the boss in a previous group. we all were.
that is why I KNOW.
My Health Insurance rate increased 223% due to the PPACA rules.
Chad Henderson told the Washington Post that his premium went up from $44 to $175 a month. That is about a 400% increase.
These people below posted on Healthcare.gov facebook page
"Roger Filips: I got notice that my blue cross was being canceled. The cheapest Obamacare replacement is $160 per month more and my total risk increases from $5000 to $12,500. The good news is that my menopausal wife and I now have maternity, pediatric dental and vision! Thanks a lot."
"Ipso Phakto: Obama said "if you like your plan, you can keep it, no matter what. period.". I got a letter from my insurer saying that due to the ACA my plan will discontinue! Obama lied. I now pay $525 per month. The ACA estimate is $1078 per month! How the heck am I supposed to afford that? This is insanity. Obamacare is a lifetime of ransom payments I can't make. How is this "affordable"? Why did Obama lie to the whole country, repeatedly?"
"Jean Rudolph Mark Karen: Our family has ALWAYS had individual (self employed) insurance. We've kept our premiums down by opening HSA accounts to pay off high deductibles if we have large medical expense. Now, everyone keeps saying "if you have insurance, just keep it" well for our family, Blue Shield just sent our "welcome to Obamacare" Jan 1 new premium explaining that our current policy will no longer be available BUT we can choose to stay with Blue Shield and incur an 81%!! per MONTH increase (yup, $610.00 more a month on top of what we currently pay.) of course we ran to the new exchange and guess what? we don't qualify for any any tax credits. shocking. So $16,500 (plus whatever new taxes are added) for a catastrophic HSA. Oh and out of pocket went up to to 12,500 family so we pay for most visits on top of that. Good thing only 2 of our kids are in college. THIS is why people are upset. Good plan for some with pre-existing, not for those who were happy with their ins."
"Melissa Acree Solomon: I am soon to be 62 and have for the last several years been my Mothers caregiver. I have been for the most part unemployed for the last 3+ years. I have only a very small income from a pension that started when I turned 60. I have very few bills, but the small pension covers it with only a very small (under $50) left over. To get this I was forced to cancel my cell phone. How am I suppose to pay for health insurance on such a small monthly amount? Please do not tell me to go get Medicad as after checking online it says I can only get food stamps or long-term care if I'm 65 or over which I'm not or I am disabled which I am not. My Mother has short term memory loss and does not do well with unfamilier people or surroundings."
Chad Henderson, huh? I suggest you google that fucker. Idiot.
So it cost way more than he said. It was actually a 511% rate increase & he was even going to go onto his fathers policy. Because of the sticker shock he has not actually committed to buy it yet. Blue Cross Blue Shield of Georgia, the company Chad told some reporters he chose, charges a 21-year-old non-smoker in his zip code $225 for the plan.
Well, anecdotal evidence is better than no evidence.
Really, you should ask your boss. I think you'll be surprised by the answer.
I know the costs as I was the boss in a previous group. we all were.
that is why I KNOW.
From what I've been able to find, less than 10% of employer-provided insurance plans in this country would be considered "Cadillac" plans. You've shown be no reason to doubt that, yet you keep repeating it as fact.
Since you've shown a lack of grasp on how insurance works at all, I have no choice but to doubt your claims.
I know the costs as I was the boss in a previous group. we all were.
that is why I KNOW.
From what I've been able to find, less than 10% of employer-provided insurance plans in this country would be considered "Cadillac" plans. You've shown be no reason to doubt that, yet you keep repeating it as fact.
Since you've shown a lack of grasp on how insurance works at all, I have no choice but to doubt your claims.
From what I have found about 90% of the employer-based insurance plans in this country would be considered "Cadillac" plans. You have shown me absolutely no reason to doubt that, yet you keeping repeating it as a fact.
Since you've shown a lack of grasp on how insurance works at all, I have no choice but to doubt your claims.
From what I've been able to find, less than 10% of employer-provided insurance plans in this country would be considered "Cadillac" plans. You've shown be no reason to doubt that, yet you keep repeating it as fact.
Since you've shown a lack of grasp on how insurance works at all, I have no choice but to doubt your claims.
From what I have found about 90% of the employer-based insurance plans in this country would be considered "Cadillac" plans. You have shown me absolutely no reason to doubt that, yet you keeping repeating it as a fact.
Since you've shown a lack of grasp on how insurance works at all, I have no choice but to doubt your claims.
Ah. An oldie but goodie: the I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I defense.
Jus for shits and giggles, I asked my old boss how much he paid for my insurance (a decent PPO in NY). Less than 50 employees.
Less than $200 bucks a month.
From what I have found about 90% of the employer-based insurance plans in this country would be considered "Cadillac" plans. You have shown me absolutely no reason to doubt that, yet you keeping repeating it as a fact.
Since you've shown a lack of grasp on how insurance works at all, I have no choice but to doubt your claims.
Ah. An oldie but goodie: the I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I defense.
Jus for shits and giggles, I asked my old boss how much he paid for my insurance (a decent PPO in NY). Less than 50 employees.
Less than $200 bucks a month.
keep lying
I have to add, an acquaintance of mine, said he went on the the cali state exchange. he wanted coverage as close to what he has now, his wife works at a broker and hes a buyer for trader Joe. She has full Kaiser, right now he has,( soon to be gone) , anthem blue cross plus(?)..... (its gone becasue they are cutting his hours but thats not the point for now).
he says, now this is him talking, ok(?), he swore to me he went on the state exchange, and for the platinum plan, which is very close to what they have now, to cover them both would be....$1800.00.....I asked him 3 times, he said yes thats what it said, $1800.00. He says out of pocket now collectively they pay $425.00......
Edit- he did say trader joe was giving him a 1 time payment of 500 bucks......
In all seriousness, I just don't beleive it. I kept asking him if he was sure, he said yes....all 3 times, I have to say, I simply cannot beleive that...he has to be wrong. Thats not even remotely sane.
Dies anyone have a comment or can shed light on this? I tried to get in, got booted twice....I'm on my shitty iPad so......
I just cannot believe his premium if true .....
The conceit of the thread is that the cheapest bronze plan would cost a family of 5 $20,000/year in premiums. That was a lie, told by idiots to idiots. The point of looking up actual numbers is to expose the absurdity of that claim. The actual cheapest bronze plan for a family that large is actually less than $5,000, with families potentially being asked to pay substantially less than that.
That's not a recommendation that this family actually choose to buy catastrophic coverage, the point is that catastrophic coverage doesn't cost $20,000, as the more impressionable minds in the rightwing herd were led to believe.
Derp.
Bronze is not a catastrophic plan.
I checked some numbers real quick.
For a real family of five that I know, the cheapest bronze plan would cost $26,980 before any benefits are paid out.
I then went to the cheapest platinum plan. Cost: $25,240.
Neither of those numbers come even close to what that family currently pays.
Dental not included.
Eye care not included.
Formularies not included.
The families 'health insurance' just doubled!
Let's not even talk about the number of Docs dropping MediCal patients.
Ah. An oldie but goodie: the I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I defense.
Jus for shits and giggles, I asked my old boss how much he paid for my insurance (a decent PPO in NY). Less than 50 employees.
Less than $200 bucks a month.
keep lying
It's amusing to me that you expect me to accept your unsourced anecdotal claims, yet you don't seem to be willing to offer me that same concession...
I have to add, an acquaintance of mine, said he went on the the cali state exchange. he wanted coverage as close to what he has now, his wife works at a broker and hes a buyer for trader Joe. She has full Kaiser, right now he has,( soon to be gone) , anthem blue cross plus(?)..... (its gone becasue they are cutting his hours but thats not the point for now).
he says, now this is him talking, ok(?), he swore to me he went on the state exchange, and for the platinum plan, which is very close to what they have now, to cover them both would be....$1800.00.....I asked him 3 times, he said yes thats what it said, $1800.00. He says out of pocket now collectively they pay $425.00......
Edit- he did say trader joe was giving him a 1 time payment of 500 bucks......
In all seriousness, I just don't beleive it. I kept asking him if he was sure, he said yes....all 3 times, I have to say, I simply cannot beleive that...he has to be wrong. Thats not even remotely sane.
Dies anyone have a comment or can shed light on this? I tried to get in, got booted twice....I'm on my shitty iPad so......
I just cannot believe his premium if true .....
The conceit of the thread is that the cheapest bronze plan would cost a family of 5 $20,000/year in premiums. That was a lie, told by idiots to idiots. The point of looking up actual numbers is to expose the absurdity of that claim. The actual cheapest bronze plan for a family that large is actually less than $5,000, with families potentially being asked to pay substantially less than that.
That's not a recommendation that this family actually choose to buy catastrophic coverage, the point is that catastrophic coverage doesn't cost $20,000, as the more impressionable minds in the rightwing herd were led to believe.
Derp.
Bronze is not a catastrophic plan.
I checked some numbers real quick.
For a real family of five that I know, the cheapest bronze plan would cost $26,980 before any benefits are paid out.
I then went to the cheapest platinum plan. Cost: $25,240.
Neither of those numbers come even close to what that family currently pays.
Dental not included.
Eye care not included.
Formularies not included.
The families 'health insurance' just doubled!
Let's not even talk about the number of Docs dropping MediCal patients.
Using this tool provided be Greenbeard:
Get Covered | Covered California?
In my above post the family currently pays approx $12K per year with pretax dollars. She's an RN, he works for AT&T.
This family will be having an economic meltdown after barely seeing topside of the last economic meltdown.
There is nothing to cut out of their budget.
They will go into debt buying health insurance.
.
keep lying
It's amusing to me that you expect me to accept your unsourced anecdotal claims, yet you don't seem to be willing to offer me that same concession...
it is even more amusing that you expect me to accept YOUR unsourced anecdotal claims, and with a straight face deny whatever I propose you.
Plus I have substantiated my claims by direct quotes and links.
so far you were only talking without any links
It's amusing to me that you expect me to accept your unsourced anecdotal claims, yet you don't seem to be willing to offer me that same concession...
it is even more amusing that you expect me to accept YOUR unsourced anecdotal claims, and with a straight face deny whatever I propose you.
Plus I have substantiated my claims by direct quotes and links.
so far you were only talking without any links
Point out that "link" you supplied to back up the claim that a "normal PPO" costs more than $10,200 for single-person coverage.
You started in this thread making other bullshit claims about $15,000 deductibles that you seemed to have walked back already. You're not exactly showing a good track record here.
it is even more amusing that you expect me to accept YOUR unsourced anecdotal claims, and with a straight face deny whatever I propose you.
Plus I have substantiated my claims by direct quotes and links.
so far you were only talking without any links
Point out that "link" you supplied to back up the claim that a "normal PPO" costs more than $10,200 for single-person coverage.
You started in this thread making other bullshit claims about $15,000 deductibles that you seemed to have walked back already. You're not exactly showing a good track record here.
point at least one link at all in whatever YOU are claiming the whole thread 0- and then demand more links from me.
you have not provided ANY. zero, zilch, nada.
substantiate your claim it is not 10,200K - for once.
Point out that "link" you supplied to back up the claim that a "normal PPO" costs more than $10,200 for single-person coverage.
You started in this thread making other bullshit claims about $15,000 deductibles that you seemed to have walked back already. You're not exactly showing a good track record here.
point at least one link at all in whatever YOU are claiming the whole thread 0- and then demand more links from me.
you have not provided ANY. zero, zilch, nada.
substantiate your claim it is not 10,200K - for once.
YOU made the claim.
The burden of proof is on you.
