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You would at least think that we could react and be smarter about a pandemic than people were in 1918. But your ideas, attitude and philosophy mirrors that of the people in 1918 who made choices that got 675,000 Americans killed from that pandemic. They did not care about SCIENCE, like you, and did not listen or heed the warnings of doctors and scientist back then, and the result was 675,000 American deaths.
No you stupid dumbshit.
I am reporting what others are doing. It has nothing to do with me.
While I practice precautions, I see and hear about huge numbers of people who don't.
I put up a link about an entire county where nail salons were declared essential businesses.
That isn't locking down.
The only fools out there are those advocating for HERD immunity and presenting SWEDEN as a model to follow. SWEDEN has the 9th highest number of deaths per capita in the world from coronavirus.
The vast majority of experts in infectious diseases advocate lockdown when there is community spread. They only advocate re-opening once the number of new cases is dramatically low, and testing and contact tracing capabilities are sufficient to track and isolate any new flare ups.
They use the Scientific process to arrive at those conclusions, instead of looking at their car window, their house window, or some odd article on the internet.
There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
1. 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home.
2. Jobs considered essential have never stopped and include Healthcare, non-restaurant food services, shipping by both truck, rail and air, the entire U.S. military and U.S. police force.
3. The two above combine for over 60% of the labor force.
4. The United States is still producing far more food than it eats and there is no one in the food production and distribution services that have stopped working except restaurants. So there are no real food shortages, only setbacks in distribution.
5. For the 40% of the economy that is shut down or close to it, there is no reason to restart it when there will be no customers for those business's anyways. Your not going to really do business until people feel safe again.
6. 70% to 80% of the country supports the lockdowns. Those lockdowns may continue for the next two to three years until a vaccine is found.
7. Germany and Japan survived World War II after being destroyed. Japan was NUKED. Both countries and economies came back though. This is a walk in the park compared to what Germany and Japan experienced during World War II. The economy will eventually come back as it did for Germany and Japan after World War II.
8. While the economy and business will return once the crises is over, you can't bring someone back who is physically dead from covid-19.
9. Trillions of dollars of economic aid is heading towards those who have lost jobs. If you can take 1/3 of the workforce out of their jobs in World War II and pay them to go overseas and shoot people, you can pay 1/3 of the workforce to SIT AT HOME!
But they ain't stayin.
More and more we are finding out that people are sneaking out and having fun and working and not getting sick.
Why don't you go fix New York and New Jersey and leave South Dakota alone ?
70 to 80% is bullshit. They ain't doing it.
So you say? Evidence, proof? Nothing. Scientific polling shows most people support the lockdown and follow it. You can see it in reduced pollution rates all over the country.
Follow the data and the SCIENCE, that tells you what is really going on. What you see on a car ride locally or from a window in your home, is proof of nothing.
The Pathogen likes hosts and it gets more hosts when people don't isolate.
The United States has the 11th highest infection rate per capita in the world and the 12th highest death rate per capita in the world.
Until new cases are brought down to a level that can be tested, tracked, contact traced and all potentially infected people located and isolated, people violating lockdowns are simply aiding the pathogen and killing more Americans. They may not get sick or show any symptoms, but they allow the pathogen to ride in them and spread to someone the pathogen can harm and even kill.
Yep, I've lived it. ABC is reporting on it. I don't give a fuck what people say....polls said Clinton would win too. I am not saying things have not slowed down. But shelter in place is NOT being strictly observed. I can attest to that watching a city of 500,000 people being fairly active on golf courses, filling up stores and filling up parks.
There is no data and there is no science that tells us anything. You are lapping up a fairy tale. Any pathogen likes to spread. It's what they do. But they ain't spreading like you said they would and the people who know they are dying can't seem to figure out why. What the hell is wrong with New York ? Your faith in overwhelmed hospitals has not materialized. And you yourself report statistics that are bullshit. The world is showing us something different too. Some places are not locking down and are not having issues beyond what others are having. Sweden is just such a case. They have more deaths than Norway or Finland, but they have fewer cases than Norway on an age adjusted basis. If testing is an issue, they YOU REALLY HAVE NO FUCKING SCIENCE AT ALL.
If New York, New Jersey, Penn, Conn, and a couple of others are pulled out...the numbers look a whole lot different. You have 18 states that have less than 100 deaths total since the start. So the infection rate is bullshit. It may be that way in New York...but not in AZ.
Until Until Until Until.....America is heading out. Get used to it. Hide in your mothers basement until you are sure you won't ever get sick...and you'll be there forever.
This thing will reach everybody eventually.
Deal with it.
A very ignorant post. The infectious disease experts, especially those that work in TAIWAN and South Korea, have been right every step of the way on how this pathogen is spread and what are the best ways to stop it.
You have no way of scientifically calculating how much stay at home or social distancing is being observed in a state the size of Arizona. Even if your job was that of a contact tracer, and you were working 16 hours a day, one person would never be able to cover enough territory to accurately estimate such data for an entire state.
I only reported that 2.4 million people would die by August if NOTHING was done. But stay at home orders were put in place in 41 of 50 states and that has made a big difference. In early April, Dr. Fauci said that deaths may be as little as 60,000 by August if we kept up the isolation efforts. Unfortunately, the death toll is already at 47,681 and still rising with a full week left in April. So things are actually worse than the best predictions from two weeks ago, far worse in fact. Combine that with states deciding to open up in early to Mid-May and you have a potential disaster about to happen.
This pandemic is far from being over. As one infectious disease expert has said, most people think this is a SPRINT, but its not. Its a Marathon. The more you isolate now, the less you will have to isolate I the future. The VIRUS is like a fire. The oxygen for this fire is un-isolated people. There is no WATER to put the fire out yet, that requires a vaccine. So without water to put the fire out, your only option is to deprive the Fire of oxygen, and that means keeping people Isolated.
You can only responsibly open up when new cases have dramatically slowed and you have testing, contact tracing, and Isolation capabilities to put out any new fires before they spread. That's what they have succeeded in doing TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA. SOUTH KOREA is a country of 50 million people. They rapidly jumped to 10,000 cases in late March, but have since then held their number of cases below 11,000. There are now only 2,000 active cases in SOUTH KOREA. These people are isolated. 80% of the people who had the virus have recovered. Only 240 people have died. WHEN YOU CLAIM THAT SUCH MEASURES DON'T WORK, LOOK AT SOUTH KOREA, LOOK AT TAIWAN and THEN LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES! The evidence shows that proper lockdowns and containment strategies SUCCESSFULLY protect a country's population from large death numbers. Look at the numbers:
UNITED STATES: 47,681 deaths
SOUTH KOREA: 240 deaths
TAIWAN: 6 deaths
THATS NOT A FAIRY TALE! THOSE ARE COLD HARD INDISPUTABLE FACTS!
Oh and please stop siting Sweden as an example of anything. Sweden has the 9th highest death rate in the world from Coronavirus. What Sweden has done is precisely what you do NOT want to do.
The statistics I report are NOT bullshit and its a hell of a lot more reliable than you looking at the window of your car or home to report on whether are not stay home or social distancing measures are being followed in the entire state of Arizona.
The 18 states that have less than 100 deaths AT THIS TIME are that way for a number of reasons:
1. smaller population
2. less population density
3. less contact and exposure to the outside world as oppose to a travel hub like New York City
4. The states that have put in strong stay at home measures are protecting these smaller states from higher infection and death rates.
But as states begin to foolishly open up, deaths in those smaller states risks going much higher. Again, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Until a vaccine becomes available, the only reliable protection is ISOLATION. The Virus is a fire, the oxygen for this fire is UN-ISOLATED PEOPLE!
If the virus were to reach everyone eventually, it will kill over 5 million Americans. WHAT IDIOT WOULD EVER ADVOCATE SUCH POLICIES THAT WOULD ENSURE THAT WOULD HAPPEN?
Reality is that there are no concerts are large events happening anywhere in the United States this summer. Most schools are shut down until at least the start of the Fall. Disney World and Disney Land won't be opening up until 2021. How about those baseball stadiums and basketball arenas? See any of them filling up with people this spring and summer?
You would at least think that we could react and be smarter about a pandemic than people were in 1918. But your ideas, attitude and philosophy mirrors that of the people in 1918 who made choices that got 675,000 Americans killed from that pandemic. They did not care about SCIENCE, like you, and did not listen or heed the warnings of doctors and scientist back then, and the result was 675,000 American deaths.
If infections rates and death rates increase as states open up or later in the fall, you'll see quick reversals in most states and you'll see lock downs start over again. We could avoid that situation though if we simply followed the SCIENCE NOW, which states to remain locked down until new cases per day are very low, and TESTING CAPACITY, CONTACT TRACING capacity has increased sufficiently to locate and isolate any new cases. Before those conditions are met, it is foolish to be opening up and risking the lives of millions of people from illness and potentially death.
TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people. They have only 427 infected people. But according to you, everyone in Taiwan is going to get infected. When do you predict all of the other 23,999,583 TAIWANESE people will become infected with coronavirus through community spread? Please tell us.
Oh, its only about 6 months until Joe Biden is elected President, and the Democrats take back the Senate, and keep the House Of Representatives. Then finally the country won't be led by idiots that sellout the country and are allies to the Russians, and do nothing when a deadly pathogen starts to hit the country.
DEAL WITH IT!
In the future, ou
The virus is like a fire
You have to isolate.
Taiwan is doing it right.
Taiwan never shut down their grade schools.
O.K. ?
They didn't because they did not have to. IF you prevent the virus from penetrating the country and have testing and contact tracing capabilities to put out in flare ups, then you can afford to have certain things remain open.
BUT
1. TRUMP never shut down travel like TAIWAN did back in January. He waited months to do what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020.
2. The United States still does not have the testing and contact tracing capacity that TAIWAN has. Only a fool would open up under such circumstances.
3. TAIWAN is not following your strategy. TAIWAN is not going for HERD immunity. There are only 429 confirmed cases. TAIWAN is doing everything it can to restrict the spread of the virus. TAIWAN's defense minister even offered to resign when it was discovered that the virus had spread to 27 people on a Navy ship. TAIWAN is doing the opposite of HERD immunity. TAIWAN isolates people when there is the potential for community spread and they would close down schools if any flare up got out of control.
Arm chair quarterbacking seems to be your gig.
And it wasn't just Trump. New York really fucked themselves over.
I would love to follow your strategy. Nobody from New York can leave New York. In fact all of New England should be isolation.
So should New Orleans and Michigan.
There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
1. 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home.
2. Jobs considered essential have never stopped and include Healthcare, non-restaurant food services, shipping by both truck, rail and air, the entire U.S. military and U.S. police force.
3. The two above combine for over 60% of the labor force.
4. The United States is still producing far more food than it eats and there is no one in the food production and distribution services that have stopped working except restaurants. So there are no real food shortages, only setbacks in distribution.
5. For the 40% of the economy that is shut down or close to it, there is no reason to restart it when there will be no customers for those business's anyways. Your not going to really do business until people feel safe again.
6. 70% to 80% of the country supports the lockdowns. Those lockdowns may continue for the next two to three years until a vaccine is found.
7. Germany and Japan survived World War II after being destroyed. Japan was NUKED. Both countries and economies came back though. This is a walk in the park compared to what Germany and Japan experienced during World War II. The economy will eventually come back as it did for Germany and Japan after World War II.
8. While the economy and business will return once the crises is over, you can't bring someone back who is physically dead from covid-19.
9. Trillions of dollars of economic aid is heading towards those who have lost jobs. If you can take 1/3 of the workforce out of their jobs in World War II and pay them to go overseas and shoot people, you can pay 1/3 of the workforce to SIT AT HOME!
But they ain't stayin.
More and more we are finding out that people are sneaking out and having fun and working and not getting sick.
Why don't you go fix New York and New Jersey and leave South Dakota alone ?
70 to 80% is bullshit. They ain't doing it.
So you say? Evidence, proof? Nothing. Scientific polling shows most people support the lockdown and follow it. You can see it in reduced pollution rates all over the country.
Follow the data and the SCIENCE, that tells you what is really going on. What you see on a car ride locally or from a window in your home, is proof of nothing.
The Pathogen likes hosts and it gets more hosts when people don't isolate.
The United States has the 11th highest infection rate per capita in the world and the 12th highest death rate per capita in the world.
Until new cases are brought down to a level that can be tested, tracked, contact traced and all potentially infected people located and isolated, people violating lockdowns are simply aiding the pathogen and killing more Americans. They may not get sick or show any symptoms, but they allow the pathogen to ride in them and spread to someone the pathogen can harm and even kill.
Yep, I've lived it. ABC is reporting on it. I don't give a fuck what people say....polls said Clinton would win too. I am not saying things have not slowed down. But shelter in place is NOT being strictly observed. I can attest to that watching a city of 500,000 people being fairly active on golf courses, filling up stores and filling up parks.
There is no data and there is no science that tells us anything. You are lapping up a fairy tale. Any pathogen likes to spread. It's what they do. But they ain't spreading like you said they would and the people who know they are dying can't seem to figure out why. What the hell is wrong with New York ? Your faith in overwhelmed hospitals has not materialized. And you yourself report statistics that are bullshit. The world is showing us something different too. Some places are not locking down and are not having issues beyond what others are having. Sweden is just such a case. They have more deaths than Norway or Finland, but they have fewer cases than Norway on an age adjusted basis. If testing is an issue, they YOU REALLY HAVE NO FUCKING SCIENCE AT ALL.
If New York, New Jersey, Penn, Conn, and a couple of others are pulled out...the numbers look a whole lot different. You have 18 states that have less than 100 deaths total since the start. So the infection rate is bullshit. It may be that way in New York...but not in AZ.
Until Until Until Until.....America is heading out. Get used to it. Hide in your mothers basement until you are sure you won't ever get sick...and you'll be there forever.
This thing will reach everybody eventually.
Deal with it.
You have no way of scientifically calculating how much stay at home or social distancing is being observed in a state the size of Arizona. Even if your job was that of a contact tracer, and you were working 16 hours a day, one person would never be able to cover enough territory to accurately estimate such data for an entire state.
And neither do you.
Your poll is bullshit.
The data I present at least has some scientific basis for it. You personal experience is anecdotal and unscientific.
All the scientific data associated with this virus has been worthless.
Tell that to TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA. TAIWAN only has 6 deaths and South Korea 230. Meanwhile the United States is approaching 50,000 dead and your suggesting SWEDEN is the model to follow. SWEDEN? The country with the 9th highest per capita deaths in the world.
SCIENCE works! To bad we did not have a President that followed the Science on protecting your population from a pandemic like TAIWAN did.
I only reported that 2.4 million people would die by August if NOTHING was done. But stay at home orders were put in place in 41 of 50 states and that has made a big difference. In early April, Dr. Fauci said that deaths may be as little as 60,000 by August if we kept up the isolation efforts. Unfortunately, the death toll is already at 47,681 and still rising with a full week left in April. So things are actually worse than the best predictions from two weeks ago, far worse in fact. Combine that with states deciding to open up in early to Mid-May and you have a potential disaster about to happen.
Yes you did.
Lost a lot of credibility right there.
And the 47,681 deaths do not tell the story.
New York and New Jersey have over 1/2 of those deaths.
New England has 31,000.
A couple of other states and pretty much it isn't so high for what's left.
The strange thing is that for all the talk of how it got started.....Italy and Spain have turned the corner...while New York keeps dying.
I keep asking why and nobody seems to want to answer the question.
There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
1. 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home.
2. Jobs considered essential have never stopped and include Healthcare, non-restaurant food services, shipping by both truck, rail and air, the entire U.S. military and U.S. police force.
3. The two above combine for over 60% of the labor force.
4. The United States is still producing far more food than it eats and there is no one in the food production and distribution services that have stopped working except restaurants. So there are no real food shortages, only setbacks in distribution.
5. For the 40% of the economy that is shut down or close to it, there is no reason to restart it when there will be no customers for those business's anyways. Your not going to really do business until people feel safe again.
6. 70% to 80% of the country supports the lockdowns. Those lockdowns may continue for the next two to three years until a vaccine is found.
7. Germany and Japan survived World War II after being destroyed. Japan was NUKED. Both countries and economies came back though. This is a walk in the park compared to what Germany and Japan experienced during World War II. The economy will eventually come back as it did for Germany and Japan after World War II.
8. While the economy and business will return once the crises is over, you can't bring someone back who is physically dead from covid-19.
9. Trillions of dollars of economic aid is heading towards those who have lost jobs. If you can take 1/3 of the workforce out of their jobs in World War II and pay them to go overseas and shoot people, you can pay 1/3 of the workforce to SIT AT HOME!
But they ain't stayin.
More and more we are finding out that people are sneaking out and having fun and working and not getting sick.
Why don't you go fix New York and New Jersey and leave South Dakota alone ?
70 to 80% is bullshit. They ain't doing it.
So you say? Evidence, proof? Nothing. Scientific polling shows most people support the lockdown and follow it. You can see it in reduced pollution rates all over the country.
Follow the data and the SCIENCE, that tells you what is really going on. What you see on a car ride locally or from a window in your home, is proof of nothing.
The Pathogen likes hosts and it gets more hosts when people don't isolate.
The United States has the 11th highest infection rate per capita in the world and the 12th highest death rate per capita in the world.
Until new cases are brought down to a level that can be tested, tracked, contact traced and all potentially infected people located and isolated, people violating lockdowns are simply aiding the pathogen and killing more Americans. They may not get sick or show any symptoms, but they allow the pathogen to ride in them and spread to someone the pathogen can harm and even kill.
Yep, I've lived it. ABC is reporting on it. I don't give a fuck what people say....polls said Clinton would win too. I am not saying things have not slowed down. But shelter in place is NOT being strictly observed. I can attest to that watching a city of 500,000 people being fairly active on golf courses, filling up stores and filling up parks.
There is no data and there is no science that tells us anything. You are lapping up a fairy tale. Any pathogen likes to spread. It's what they do. But they ain't spreading like you said they would and the people who know they are dying can't seem to figure out why. What the hell is wrong with New York ? Your faith in overwhelmed hospitals has not materialized. And you yourself report statistics that are bullshit. The world is showing us something different too. Some places are not locking down and are not having issues beyond what others are having. Sweden is just such a case. They have more deaths than Norway or Finland, but they have fewer cases than Norway on an age adjusted basis. If testing is an issue, they YOU REALLY HAVE NO FUCKING SCIENCE AT ALL.
If New York, New Jersey, Penn, Conn, and a couple of others are pulled out...the numbers look a whole lot different. You have 18 states that have less than 100 deaths total since the start. So the infection rate is bullshit. It may be that way in New York...but not in AZ.
Until Until Until Until.....America is heading out. Get used to it. Hide in your mothers basement until you are sure you won't ever get sick...and you'll be there forever.
This thing will reach everybody eventually.
Deal with it.
You have no way of scientifically calculating how much stay at home or social distancing is being observed in a state the size of Arizona. Even if your job was that of a contact tracer, and you were working 16 hours a day, one person would never be able to cover enough territory to accurately estimate such data for an entire state.
And neither do you.
Your poll is bullshit.
The data I present at least has some scientific basis for it. You personal experience is anecdotal and unscientific.
All the scientific data associated with this virus has been worthless.
Tell that to TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA. TAIWAN only has 6 deaths and South Korea 230. Meanwhile the United States is approaching 50,000 dead and your suggesting SWEDEN is the model to follow. SWEDEN? The country with the 9th highest per capita deaths in the world.
SCIENCE works! To bad we did not have a President that followed the Science on protecting your population from a pandemic like TAIWAN did.
Taiwan can stay isolated forever.
We should be doing the same thing with New England.
You would at least think that we could react and be smarter about a pandemic than people were in 1918. But your ideas, attitude and philosophy mirrors that of the people in 1918 who made choices that got 675,000 Americans killed from that pandemic. They did not care about SCIENCE, like you, and did not listen or heed the warnings of doctors and scientist back then, and the result was 675,000 American deaths.
No you stupid dumbshit.
I am reporting what others are doing. It has nothing to do with me.
While I practice precautions, I see and hear about huge numbers of people who don't.
I put up a link about an entire county where nail salons were declared essential businesses.
That isn't locking down.
The only fools out there are those advocating for HERD immunity and presenting SWEDEN as a model to follow. SWEDEN has the 9th highest number of deaths per capita in the world from coronavirus.
The vast majority of experts in infectious diseases advocate lockdown when there is community spread. They only advocate re-opening once the number of new cases is dramatically low, and testing and contact tracing capabilities are sufficient to track and isolate any new flare ups.
They use the Scientific process to arrive at those conclusions, instead of looking at their car window, their house window, or some odd article on the internet.
You are not addressing the counters to your constant bleating.
Norway has just as many cases on population adjusted basis.
They locked down and it hasn't made a difference.
I don't give a fuck about what they say we should do....you can't explain why it isn't working.
Sweden has explained the high death rate.
But you don't die without getting sick and Sweden is not getting sick any faster than Norway.
There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
1. 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home.
2. Jobs considered essential have never stopped and include Healthcare, non-restaurant food services, shipping by both truck, rail and air, the entire U.S. military and U.S. police force.
3. The two above combine for over 60% of the labor force.
4. The United States is still producing far more food than it eats and there is no one in the food production and distribution services that have stopped working except restaurants. So there are no real food shortages, only setbacks in distribution.
5. For the 40% of the economy that is shut down or close to it, there is no reason to restart it when there will be no customers for those business's anyways. Your not going to really do business until people feel safe again.
6. 70% to 80% of the country supports the lockdowns. Those lockdowns may continue for the next two to three years until a vaccine is found.
7. Germany and Japan survived World War II after being destroyed. Japan was NUKED. Both countries and economies came back though. This is a walk in the park compared to what Germany and Japan experienced during World War II. The economy will eventually come back as it did for Germany and Japan after World War II.
8. While the economy and business will return once the crises is over, you can't bring someone back who is physically dead from covid-19.
9. Trillions of dollars of economic aid is heading towards those who have lost jobs. If you can take 1/3 of the workforce out of their jobs in World War II and pay them to go overseas and shoot people, you can pay 1/3 of the workforce to SIT AT HOME!
But they ain't stayin.
More and more we are finding out that people are sneaking out and having fun and working and not getting sick.
Why don't you go fix New York and New Jersey and leave South Dakota alone ?
70 to 80% is bullshit. They ain't doing it.
So you say? Evidence, proof? Nothing. Scientific polling shows most people support the lockdown and follow it. You can see it in reduced pollution rates all over the country.
Follow the data and the SCIENCE, that tells you what is really going on. What you see on a car ride locally or from a window in your home, is proof of nothing.
The Pathogen likes hosts and it gets more hosts when people don't isolate.
The United States has the 11th highest infection rate per capita in the world and the 12th highest death rate per capita in the world.
Until new cases are brought down to a level that can be tested, tracked, contact traced and all potentially infected people located and isolated, people violating lockdowns are simply aiding the pathogen and killing more Americans. They may not get sick or show any symptoms, but they allow the pathogen to ride in them and spread to someone the pathogen can harm and even kill.
Yep, I've lived it. ABC is reporting on it. I don't give a fuck what people say....polls said Clinton would win too. I am not saying things have not slowed down. But shelter in place is NOT being strictly observed. I can attest to that watching a city of 500,000 people being fairly active on golf courses, filling up stores and filling up parks.
There is no data and there is no science that tells us anything. You are lapping up a fairy tale. Any pathogen likes to spread. It's what they do. But they ain't spreading like you said they would and the people who know they are dying can't seem to figure out why. What the hell is wrong with New York ? Your faith in overwhelmed hospitals has not materialized. And you yourself report statistics that are bullshit. The world is showing us something different too. Some places are not locking down and are not having issues beyond what others are having. Sweden is just such a case. They have more deaths than Norway or Finland, but they have fewer cases than Norway on an age adjusted basis. If testing is an issue, they YOU REALLY HAVE NO FUCKING SCIENCE AT ALL.
If New York, New Jersey, Penn, Conn, and a couple of others are pulled out...the numbers look a whole lot different. You have 18 states that have less than 100 deaths total since the start. So the infection rate is bullshit. It may be that way in New York...but not in AZ.
Until Until Until Until.....America is heading out. Get used to it. Hide in your mothers basement until you are sure you won't ever get sick...and you'll be there forever.
This thing will reach everybody eventually.
Deal with it.
A very ignorant post. The infectious disease experts, especially those that work in TAIWAN and South Korea, have been right every step of the way on how this pathogen is spread and what are the best ways to stop it.
You have no way of scientifically calculating how much stay at home or social distancing is being observed in a state the size of Arizona. Even if your job was that of a contact tracer, and you were working 16 hours a day, one person would never be able to cover enough territory to accurately estimate such data for an entire state.
I only reported that 2.4 million people would die by August if NOTHING was done. But stay at home orders were put in place in 41 of 50 states and that has made a big difference. In early April, Dr. Fauci said that deaths may be as little as 60,000 by August if we kept up the isolation efforts. Unfortunately, the death toll is already at 47,681 and still rising with a full week left in April. So things are actually worse than the best predictions from two weeks ago, far worse in fact. Combine that with states deciding to open up in early to Mid-May and you have a potential disaster about to happen.
This pandemic is far from being over. As one infectious disease expert has said, most people think this is a SPRINT, but its not. Its a Marathon. The more you isolate now, the less you will have to isolate I the future. The VIRUS is like a fire. The oxygen for this fire is un-isolated people. There is no WATER to put the fire out yet, that requires a vaccine. So without water to put the fire out, your only option is to deprive the Fire of oxygen, and that means keeping people Isolated.
You can only responsibly open up when new cases have dramatically slowed and you have testing, contact tracing, and Isolation capabilities to put out any new fires before they spread. That's what they have succeeded in doing TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA. SOUTH KOREA is a country of 50 million people. They rapidly jumped to 10,000 cases in late March, but have since then held their number of cases below 11,000. There are now only 2,000 active cases in SOUTH KOREA. These people are isolated. 80% of the people who had the virus have recovered. Only 240 people have died. WHEN YOU CLAIM THAT SUCH MEASURES DON'T WORK, LOOK AT SOUTH KOREA, LOOK AT TAIWAN and THEN LOOK AT THE UNITED STATES! The evidence shows that proper lockdowns and containment strategies SUCCESSFULLY protect a country's population from large death numbers. Look at the numbers:
UNITED STATES: 47,681 deaths
SOUTH KOREA: 240 deaths
TAIWAN: 6 deaths
THATS NOT A FAIRY TALE! THOSE ARE COLD HARD INDISPUTABLE FACTS!
Oh and please stop siting Sweden as an example of anything. Sweden has the 9th highest death rate in the world from Coronavirus. What Sweden has done is precisely what you do NOT want to do.
The statistics I report are NOT bullshit and its a hell of a lot more reliable than you looking at the window of your car or home to report on whether are not stay home or social distancing measures are being followed in the entire state of Arizona.
The 18 states that have less than 100 deaths AT THIS TIME are that way for a number of reasons:
1. smaller population
2. less population density
3. less contact and exposure to the outside world as oppose to a travel hub like New York City
4. The states that have put in strong stay at home measures are protecting these smaller states from higher infection and death rates.
But as states begin to foolishly open up, deaths in those smaller states risks going much higher. Again, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Until a vaccine becomes available, the only reliable protection is ISOLATION. The Virus is a fire, the oxygen for this fire is UN-ISOLATED PEOPLE!
If the virus were to reach everyone eventually, it will kill over 5 million Americans. WHAT IDIOT WOULD EVER ADVOCATE SUCH POLICIES THAT WOULD ENSURE THAT WOULD HAPPEN?
Reality is that there are no concerts are large events happening anywhere in the United States this summer. Most schools are shut down until at least the start of the Fall. Disney World and Disney Land won't be opening up until 2021. How about those baseball stadiums and basketball arenas? See any of them filling up with people this spring and summer?
You would at least think that we could react and be smarter about a pandemic than people were in 1918. But your ideas, attitude and philosophy mirrors that of the people in 1918 who made choices that got 675,000 Americans killed from that pandemic. They did not care about SCIENCE, like you, and did not listen or heed the warnings of doctors and scientist back then, and the result was 675,000 American deaths.
If infections rates and death rates increase as states open up or later in the fall, you'll see quick reversals in most states and you'll see lock downs start over again. We could avoid that situation though if we simply followed the SCIENCE NOW, which states to remain locked down until new cases per day are very low, and TESTING CAPACITY, CONTACT TRACING capacity has increased sufficiently to locate and isolate any new cases. Before those conditions are met, it is foolish to be opening up and risking the lives of millions of people from illness and potentially death.
TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people. They have only 427 infected people. But according to you, everyone in Taiwan is going to get infected. When do you predict all of the other 23,999,583 TAIWANESE people will become infected with coronavirus through community spread? Please tell us.
Oh, its only about 6 months until Joe Biden is elected President, and the Democrats take back the Senate, and keep the House Of Representatives. Then finally the country won't be led by idiots that sellout the country and are allies to the Russians, and do nothing when a deadly pathogen starts to hit the country.
DEAL WITH IT!
In the future, ou
The virus is like a fire
You have to isolate.
Taiwan is doing it right.
Taiwan never shut down their grade schools.
O.K. ?
They didn't because they did not have to. IF you prevent the virus from penetrating the country and have testing and contact tracing capabilities to put out in flare ups, then you can afford to have certain things remain open.
BUT
1. TRUMP never shut down travel like TAIWAN did back in January. He waited months to do what TAIWAN did on January 20, 2020.
2. The United States still does not have the testing and contact tracing capacity that TAIWAN has. Only a fool would open up under such circumstances.
3. TAIWAN is not following your strategy. TAIWAN is not going for HERD immunity. There are only 429 confirmed cases. TAIWAN is doing everything it can to restrict the spread of the virus. TAIWAN's defense minister even offered to resign when it was discovered that the virus had spread to 27 people on a Navy ship. TAIWAN is doing the opposite of HERD immunity. TAIWAN isolates people when there is the potential for community spread and they would close down schools if any flare up got out of control.
Arm chair quarterbacking seems to be your gig.
And it wasn't just Trump. New York really fucked themselves over.
I would love to follow your strategy. Nobody from New York can leave New York. In fact all of New England should be isolation.
So should New Orleans and Michigan.
Trump is responsible for protecting the nations borders. If a deadly pathogen, terrorist entity or foreign military penetrates the borders of the United States, its Trumps failure and his alone.
TAIWAN protected its borders from the start. That's why they only have 6 deaths. The United States did not protect its borders and we have nearly 50,000 deaths now.
New York City's higher deaths is because of its exposure to the outside world through travel and population density.
There are 41 states on a stay at home order. That includes New York, New England, Louisiana and Michigan.
Yet, according to you, that should just get out there and go for HERD immunity.
There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
1. 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home.
2. Jobs considered essential have never stopped and include Healthcare, non-restaurant food services, shipping by both truck, rail and air, the entire U.S. military and U.S. police force.
3. The two above combine for over 60% of the labor force.
4. The United States is still producing far more food than it eats and there is no one in the food production and distribution services that have stopped working except restaurants. So there are no real food shortages, only setbacks in distribution.
5. For the 40% of the economy that is shut down or close to it, there is no reason to restart it when there will be no customers for those business's anyways. Your not going to really do business until people feel safe again.
6. 70% to 80% of the country supports the lockdowns. Those lockdowns may continue for the next two to three years until a vaccine is found.
7. Germany and Japan survived World War II after being destroyed. Japan was NUKED. Both countries and economies came back though. This is a walk in the park compared to what Germany and Japan experienced during World War II. The economy will eventually come back as it did for Germany and Japan after World War II.
8. While the economy and business will return once the crises is over, you can't bring someone back who is physically dead from covid-19.
9. Trillions of dollars of economic aid is heading towards those who have lost jobs. If you can take 1/3 of the workforce out of their jobs in World War II and pay them to go overseas and shoot people, you can pay 1/3 of the workforce to SIT AT HOME!
But they ain't stayin.
More and more we are finding out that people are sneaking out and having fun and working and not getting sick.
Why don't you go fix New York and New Jersey and leave South Dakota alone ?
70 to 80% is bullshit. They ain't doing it.
So you say? Evidence, proof? Nothing. Scientific polling shows most people support the lockdown and follow it. You can see it in reduced pollution rates all over the country.
Follow the data and the SCIENCE, that tells you what is really going on. What you see on a car ride locally or from a window in your home, is proof of nothing.
The Pathogen likes hosts and it gets more hosts when people don't isolate.
The United States has the 11th highest infection rate per capita in the world and the 12th highest death rate per capita in the world.
Until new cases are brought down to a level that can be tested, tracked, contact traced and all potentially infected people located and isolated, people violating lockdowns are simply aiding the pathogen and killing more Americans. They may not get sick or show any symptoms, but they allow the pathogen to ride in them and spread to someone the pathogen can harm and even kill.
Yep, I've lived it. ABC is reporting on it. I don't give a fuck what people say....polls said Clinton would win too. I am not saying things have not slowed down. But shelter in place is NOT being strictly observed. I can attest to that watching a city of 500,000 people being fairly active on golf courses, filling up stores and filling up parks.
There is no data and there is no science that tells us anything. You are lapping up a fairy tale. Any pathogen likes to spread. It's what they do. But they ain't spreading like you said they would and the people who know they are dying can't seem to figure out why. What the hell is wrong with New York ? Your faith in overwhelmed hospitals has not materialized. And you yourself report statistics that are bullshit. The world is showing us something different too. Some places are not locking down and are not having issues beyond what others are having. Sweden is just such a case. They have more deaths than Norway or Finland, but they have fewer cases than Norway on an age adjusted basis. If testing is an issue, they YOU REALLY HAVE NO FUCKING SCIENCE AT ALL.
If New York, New Jersey, Penn, Conn, and a couple of others are pulled out...the numbers look a whole lot different. You have 18 states that have less than 100 deaths total since the start. So the infection rate is bullshit. It may be that way in New York...but not in AZ.
Until Until Until Until.....America is heading out. Get used to it. Hide in your mothers basement until you are sure you won't ever get sick...and you'll be there forever.
This thing will reach everybody eventually.
Deal with it.
You have no way of scientifically calculating how much stay at home or social distancing is being observed in a state the size of Arizona. Even if your job was that of a contact tracer, and you were working 16 hours a day, one person would never be able to cover enough territory to accurately estimate such data for an entire state.
And neither do you.
Your poll is bullshit.
The data I present at least has some scientific basis for it. You personal experience is anecdotal and unscientific.
All the scientific data associated with this virus has been worthless.
Tell that to TAIWAN and SOUTH KOREA. TAIWAN only has 6 deaths and South Korea 230. Meanwhile the United States is approaching 50,000 dead and your suggesting SWEDEN is the model to follow. SWEDEN? The country with the 9th highest per capita deaths in the world.
SCIENCE works! To bad we did not have a President that followed the Science on protecting your population from a pandemic like TAIWAN did.
Taiwan can stay isolated forever.
We should be doing the same thing with New England.
They won't have to be isolated forever if every country simply adopted their approach to fighting this pandemic. Unfortunately, we have many people like you who advocate for something that will spread the virus and get more people killed. That means it will take longer to defeat the virus, involve more shut downs and more economic hardship.
You would at least think that we could react and be smarter about a pandemic than people were in 1918. But your ideas, attitude and philosophy mirrors that of the people in 1918 who made choices that got 675,000 Americans killed from that pandemic. They did not care about SCIENCE, like you, and did not listen or heed the warnings of doctors and scientist back then, and the result was 675,000 American deaths.
No you stupid dumbshit.
I am reporting what others are doing. It has nothing to do with me.
While I practice precautions, I see and hear about huge numbers of people who don't.
I put up a link about an entire county where nail salons were declared essential businesses.
That isn't locking down.
The only fools out there are those advocating for HERD immunity and presenting SWEDEN as a model to follow. SWEDEN has the 9th highest number of deaths per capita in the world from coronavirus.
The vast majority of experts in infectious diseases advocate lockdown when there is community spread. They only advocate re-opening once the number of new cases is dramatically low, and testing and contact tracing capabilities are sufficient to track and isolate any new flare ups.
They use the Scientific process to arrive at those conclusions, instead of looking at their car window, their house window, or some odd article on the internet.
You are not addressing the counters to your constant bleating.
Norway has just as many cases on population adjusted basis.
They locked down and it hasn't made a difference.
I don't give a fuck about what they say we should do....you can't explain why it isn't working.
Sweden has explained the high death rate.
But you don't die without getting sick and Sweden is not getting sick any faster than Norway.
The simple reason that Sweden has a higher per capita number of deaths over Norway is because they have far more cases of infection. Again, Sweden has the 9th highest rate of per capita death in the world from coronavirus. Its irrelevant what some comparison to their Nordic neighbors might suggest. They have the 9th highest rate of per capita death in the world.
EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, except for 8 of them, is doing better than Sweden. The ultimate objective is to save lives PREVENT DEATH. SWEDEN is failing at that, terribly.
You would at least think that we could react and be smarter about a pandemic than people were in 1918. But your ideas, attitude and philosophy mirrors that of the people in 1918 who made choices that got 675,000 Americans killed from that pandemic. They did not care about SCIENCE, like you, and did not listen or heed the warnings of doctors and scientist back then, and the result was 675,000 American deaths.
No you stupid dumbshit.
I am reporting what others are doing. It has nothing to do with me.
While I practice precautions, I see and hear about huge numbers of people who don't.
I put up a link about an entire county where nail salons were declared essential businesses.
That isn't locking down.
The only fools out there are those advocating for HERD immunity and presenting SWEDEN as a model to follow. SWEDEN has the 9th highest number of deaths per capita in the world from coronavirus.
The vast majority of experts in infectious diseases advocate lockdown when there is community spread. They only advocate re-opening once the number of new cases is dramatically low, and testing and contact tracing capabilities are sufficient to track and isolate any new flare ups.
They use the Scientific process to arrive at those conclusions, instead of looking at their car window, their house window, or some odd article on the internet.
You are not addressing the counters to your constant bleating.
Norway has just as many cases on population adjusted basis.
They locked down and it hasn't made a difference.
I don't give a fuck about what they say we should do....you can't explain why it isn't working.
Sweden has explained the high death rate.
But you don't die without getting sick and Sweden is not getting sick any faster than Norway.
The simple reason that Sweden has a higher per capita number of deaths over Norway is because they have far more cases of infection. Again, Sweden has the 9th highest rate of per capita death in the world from coronavirus. Its irrelevant what some comparison to their Nordic neighbors might suggest. They have the 9th highest rate of per capita death in the world.
EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, except for 8 of them, is doing better than Sweden. The ultimate objective is to save lives PREVENT DEATH. SWEDEN is failing at that, terribly.
I only reported that 2.4 million people would die by August if NOTHING was done. But stay at home orders were put in place in 41 of 50 states and that has made a big difference. In early April, Dr. Fauci said that deaths may be as little as 60,000 by August if we kept up the isolation efforts. Unfortunately, the death toll is already at 47,681 and still rising with a full week left in April. So things are actually worse than the best predictions from two weeks ago, far worse in fact. Combine that with states deciding to open up in early to Mid-May and you have a potential disaster about to happen.
Yes you did.
Lost a lot of credibility right there.
And the 47,681 deaths do not tell the story.
New York and New Jersey have over 1/2 of those deaths.
New England has 31,000.
A couple of other states and pretty much it isn't so high for what's left.
The strange thing is that for all the talk of how it got started.....Italy and Spain have turned the corner...while New York keeps dying.
I keep asking why and nobody seems to want to answer the question.
Oh, I did? Show me instead of claiming that I did. You have a problem with facts and science. I'm not the one with the credibility issue. That belongs to anyone that does not understand SCIENCE and makes unsubstantiated claims about others.
New York City is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Far more densely populated than anywhere in Spain or Italy. Spain and Italy experienced their infections and peaks though earlier than the United States and New York City. They are further along in the process. That explains the difference.
www.france24.com
Just one problem with the idea so far... A lot of people with mild or no symptoms didnt get tested. Thus the need for controlled trials.If only we had kept smoking this pandemic could have been softened.....
France testing whether nicotine could prevent coronavirus
Nicotine could protect people from contracting the coronavirus, according to new research in France, where further trials are planned to test whether the substance could be used to prevent or treat the…
I believe we are really missing something very important. It is not the federal government, nor the state government, nor even the businesses that will make the restrictions work or will make the economy come back when they are lifted. It's the people. Several polls in different parts of the country, Florida, Nevada, Washington State, and New York, ect show that people believe the shutdown is necessary. Also ,if restaurants and bars open now, 73% would not go to them and 85% would not fly on an airliner. When restrictions are lifted, people are not going to rush out to their favorite restaurants, bar, movie or make plans for their dream vacation. They are going to take a wait and and see attitude. If restrictions are lifted and the number of cases don't rise, people will gradually resume where they left off before the shutdown. However, if the cases show significant increases, then we are going to be in deep shit. Business will again close, many permanently, and heads will roll in Washington and state houses around the country.Well, it may be hard for a governor to tell his state or a community that has not been hit by the virus why they need to stay put, but it will be a lot harder to explain removing restrictions that ushered in an epidemic. If Florida opens their beeches and resorts, New Yorkers are going flood the state bringing the virus with them. In fact, that's likely to happen in many states. I can hardly wait for Wyoming and Montana to open up.There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
I'll go with most of what you've said.
Today's death total of 2,800
1,600 came from NY+NJ+NE
Michigan added another 350 between them.
Cali seems to be regressing. (75)
There are still 18 states with less than 100 deaths total (several below 50).
So, it's hard to tell those states to stay put when they are not like New York.
People will say "We don't want you to become like New York" and they are saying fuck off. We'll take our chances (and they already have as has been documented on this board).
We are all going to see it eventually. The goal was to flatten out the curve.
What the fuck is wrong with the North East. They've been dying long enough. What have they not figured out yet.
Or are they not really helping either.
Opening up does not mean allowing the idiots in New York to go ANYWHERE.
It's reached the point where anyone from New England should be treated like a leper.
If restrictions are lifted too early, there will be hell to pay. If the number of new case and deaths shoot up, businesses will start closing, many of them permanently. Most people are not going to risk their lives and that of their family to go a ball game, restaurants, movie or bar.There is certainly room for reasonable conversation. However, what is reasonable is certainly debatable. If we don't start opening up the country soon, the economy is going to collapse and usher in food shortages, riots, and all kinds of bad stuff. On the other hand, we have to keep in mind that we are a long way from bringing the virus under control. Just 8 weeks ago, there were 35 known case and no deaths in the country. Today those cases have grown 800,000 and 42,000 deaths. That is pretty fucking amazing! If you had come on this board 8 weeks ago and said we'll have 42,000 deaths due to the virus in 2 months, people would think you're nuts.Well, that must mean it's time to remove all restrictions, send everybody back to work, return to life as normal, and see just how high we can drive new cases and deaths.Statistics through April 20. Still going up especially in the US. Our infection rate passes France.
Spain has eclipsed the 200,000 mark, which we passed on April 1st.
World 2,480,503 +73,928 170,397 +5,366 646,328 1,663,778 56,763 318 21.9 USA 792,759 +28,123 42,514 +1,939 72,389 677,856 13,951 2,395 128 4,026,360 12,164 Italy 181,228 +2,256 24,114 +454 48,877 108,237 2,573 2,997 399 1,398,024 23,122 Spain 200,210 +1,536 20,852 +399 80,587 98,771 7,371 4,282 446 930,230 19,896 France 155,383 +2,489 20,265 +547 37,409 97,709 5,683 2,380 310 463,662 7,103 UK 124,743 +4,676 16,509 +449 N/A 107,890 1,559 1,838 243 501,379 7,386 Belgium 39,983 +1,487 5,828 +145 8,895 25,260 1,071 3,450 503 161,896 13,969 Iran 83,505 +1,294 5,209 +91 59,273 19,023 3,389 994 62 353,012 4,203 Germany 147,065 +1,323 4,862 +220 91,500 50,703 2,889 1,755 58 1,728,357 20,629 China 82,747 +12 4,632 77,084 1,031 81 57 3 Netherlands 33,405 +750 3,751 +67 N/A 29,404 1,158 1,950 219 171,415 10,004 Brazil 40,743 +2,089 2,587 +125 22,130 16,026 7,919 192 12 291,922 1,373 Turkey 90,980 +4,674 2,140 +123 13,430 75,410 1,909 1,079 25 673,980 7,991 Canada 36,829 +1,773 1,690 +103 12,586 22,553 557 976 45 559,578 14,826
Why is it that you dicks go right to that line.
There is no room for a reasonable conversation with you.
If someone doesn't like your way or agree with it, you get the hyperbole virus.
Fuck off.
Without social distancing and shutting down businesses, those numbers would have been much higher, so how do we open up the country without driving those numbers into millions of cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths? There is going to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on the governors to return society to normal which is going to be impossible.
What is going to be very hard is determining what parts of the economy can be brought back without big increase in the number of cases and deaths. Also, allowing selected businesses sectors to reopen while others remain closed is going create a lot of problems and a lot of pissed off people.
1. 37% of the labor force is able to do their jobs from home.
2. Jobs considered essential have never stopped and include Healthcare, non-restaurant food services, shipping by both truck, rail and air, the entire U.S. military and U.S. police force.
3. The two above combine for over 60% of the labor force.
4. The United States is still producing far more food than it eats and there is no one in the food production and distribution services that have stopped working except restaurants. So there are no real food shortages, only setbacks in distribution.
5. For the 40% of the economy that is shut down or close to it, there is no reason to restart it when there will be no customers for those business's anyways. Your not going to really do business until people feel safe again.
6. 70% to 80% of the country supports the lockdowns. Those lockdowns may continue for the next two to three years until a vaccine is found.
7. Germany and Japan survived World War II after being destroyed. Japan was NUKED. Both countries and economies came back though. This is a walk in the park compared to what Germany and Japan experienced during World War II. The economy will eventually come back as it did for Germany and Japan after World War II.
8. While the economy and business will return once the crises is over, you can't bring someone back who is physically dead from covid-19.
9. Trillions of dollars of economic aid is heading towards those who have lost jobs. If you can take 1/3 of the workforce out of their jobs in World War II and pay them to go overseas and shoot people, you can pay 1/3 of the workforce to SIT AT HOME!
But they ain't stayin.
More and more we are finding out that people are sneaking out and having fun and working and not getting sick.
Why don't you go fix New York and New Jersey and leave South Dakota alone ?
70 to 80% is bullshit. They ain't doing it.
So you say? Evidence, proof? Nothing. Scientific polling shows most people support the lockdown and follow it. You can see it in reduced pollution rates all over the country.
Follow the data and the SCIENCE, that tells you what is really going on. What you see on a car ride locally or from a window in your home, is proof of nothing.
The Pathogen likes hosts and it gets more hosts when people don't isolate.
The United States has the 11th highest infection rate per capita in the world and the 12th highest death rate per capita in the world.
Until new cases are brought down to a level that can be tested, tracked, contact traced and all potentially infected people located and isolated, people violating lockdowns are simply aiding the pathogen and killing more Americans. They may not get sick or show any symptoms, but they allow the pathogen to ride in them and spread to someone the pathogen can harm and even kill.
Yep, I've lived it. ABC is reporting on it. I don't give a fuck what people say....polls said Clinton would win too. I am not saying things have not slowed down. But shelter in place is NOT being strictly observed. I can attest to that watching a city of 500,000 people being fairly active on golf courses, filling up stores and filling up parks.
There is no data and there is no science that tells us anything. You are lapping up a fairy tale. Any pathogen likes to spread. It's what they do. But they ain't spreading like you said they would and the people who know they are dying can't seem to figure out why. What the hell is wrong with New York ? Your faith in overwhelmed hospitals has not materialized. And you yourself report statistics that are bullshit. The world is showing us something different too. Some places are not locking down and are not having issues beyond what others are having. Sweden is just such a case. They have more deaths than Norway or Finland, but they have fewer cases than Norway on an age adjusted basis. If testing is an issue, they YOU REALLY HAVE NO FUCKING SCIENCE AT ALL.
If New York, New Jersey, Penn, Conn, and a couple of others are pulled out...the numbers look a whole lot different. You have 18 states that have less than 100 deaths total since the start. So the infection rate is bullshit. It may be that way in New York...but not in AZ.
Until Until Until Until.....America is heading out. Get used to it. Hide in your mothers basement until you are sure you won't ever get sick...and you'll be there forever.
This thing will reach everybody eventually.
Deal with it.
