ok is trying to alienate teachers?

[Harpy Eagle]

You keep going back to this because it sounds good. It SEEMS right.

But in real life, as it would play out, it's a violation of other students' right to privacy. Because it's not just YOUR child IN the class. Again after all this. You might have a right to know what goes on with YOUR child, but you don't have a right to know what goes on with ALL THE OTHER children.

There's really no way to square that. That's why the majority of parents in my community forum yesterday came down a hard "NO" on this.

I am trying to figure out the cost of this endeavor of his.

Thinking about the High School my son graduated from a couple years ago. I would say it has 200 individual classrooms to be conservative. Might be more than that. So, lets say they go cheap and buy low end cameras at 50 bucks each. That is $10,000 for the cameras themselves. Another $5,000 to have them installed and wired.

Assuming the cameras only recorded when class was in session and not in-between classes we are talking about 75,000 hours of video created each day. Now they would need a video staff large enough to go through 75,000 hours of video created each day to ensure the privacy of the students. How many people would it take to do that?

Then they also have to catalogue each video by date and time and classroom.

And then you would need secure server space large enough to hold 75,000 hours of video daily and keep it for a minimum of the school year. Not including summer school we are talking about 13,500,000 hours of video storage. An hour of video takes up about 12gb. So we are talking about 162,000 tb of storage each year for just this one school. Google tells me it cost about 200 bucks a year per TB to store data in a secure cloud. What is 200 x 162,000?

 

[Blues Man]

Yes they do, and we have already told you how they can know those things.



And where again is all this funding coming from? I must have missed that part.

Nothing is better than seeing exactly what goes on in the class.

When enough parents demand it there will be funding it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

And I hate to tell you this but cameras are freaking cheap. So cheap in fact that people have multiple cameras, web cams and security cams all over their homes so price is a nonissue

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Nothing is better than seeing exactly what goes on in the class.

When enough parents demand it there will be funding it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

There are pretty much no parents demanding it, only folks like you with no kids.

And I hate to tell you this but cameras are freaking cheap. So cheap in fact that people have multiple cameras, web cams and security cams all over their homes so price is a nonissue

See post #542

 

[Blues Man]

You keep going back to this because it sounds good. It SEEMS right.

But in real life, as it would play out, it's a violation of other students' right to privacy. Because it's not just YOUR child IN the class. Again after all this. You might have a right to know what goes on with YOUR child, but you don't have a right to know what goes on with ALL THE OTHER children.

There's really no way to square that. That's why the majority of parents in my community forum yesterday came down a hard "NO" on this.

Students have no right to privacy in schools.

This is well established law. Lockers and coats can be searched at any time for one example.

And you still can;t tell me the difference between a parent sitting in your class observing and a parent watching that same class on a video because there is no difference.

 

[Blues Man]

There are pretty much no parents demanding it, only folks like you with no kids.



See post #542

really?

https://www.newsmax.com/us/school-cameras-classrooms/2021/08/23/id/1033395/

An increasing number of worried parents nationwide have begun to advocate for cameras in the classroom in order for them to monitor what children are learning, as well as a way to improve safety, reinforce accountability, and cut down on cheating and other bad behavior, the Washington Examiner reported on Monday.

Cameras in the Classroom a Crusade for Parents of Special-Needs Kids

A grassroots movement to put cameras in classrooms, driven by the parents of special-needs students, is simmering across the country. It's a personal crusade for many of the parents who say their children have suffered abuse at the hands of teachers and classroom aides with unsatisfying...

abcnews.go.com

Sept. 5, 2012 — -- A grassroots movement to put cameras in classrooms, driven by the parents of special-needs students, is simmering across the country. It's a personal crusade for many of the parents who say their children have suffered abuse at the hands of teachers and classroom aides with unsatisfying consequences.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I specifically said it doesn;t have to be a live stream.

It doesn’t make any difference whether unwarranted surveillance of teachers is live or recorded – it’s yet another Orwellian example of the authoritarian right’s desire to compel conformity and use public education as a political weapon by conservatives.

 

[initforme]

This would be an example of authoritarianism.

 

[Blues Man]

I am trying to figure out the cost of this endeavor of his.

Thinking about the High School my son graduated from a couple years ago. I would say it has 200 individual classrooms to be conservative. Might be more than that. So, lets say they go cheap and buy low end cameras at 50 bucks each. That is $10,000 for the cameras themselves. Another $5,000 to have them installed and wired.

Assuming the cameras only recorded when class was in session and not in-between classes we are talking about 75,000 hours of video created each day. Now they would need a video staff large enough to go through 75,000 hours of video created each day to ensure the privacy of the students. How many people would it take to do that?

Then they also have to catalogue each video by date and time and classroom.

And then you would need secure server space large enough to hold 75,000 hours of video daily and keep it for a minimum of the school year. Not including summer school we are talking about 13,500,000 hours of video storage. An hour of video takes up about 12gb. So we are talking about 162,000 tb of storage each year for just this one school. Google tells me it cost about 200 bucks a year per TB to store data in a secure cloud. What is 200 x 162,000?

15 grand out of a budget of millions plus federal funding really?

Storage isn;t an issue either as the videos can be deleted after 72 hours or so

It would be better to store the videos on the school server for security and it's easy to add storage to servers

Once again we see all your reasons for less transparency fall like dominoes

 

[Blues Man]

It doesn’t make any difference whether unwarranted surveillance of teachers is live or recorded – it’s yet another Orwellian example of the authoritarian right’s desire to compel conformity and use public education as a political weapon by conservatives.

Yeah parents wanting to know what their kids are doing in class is the same as Orwellian right wing authority.

 

[Blues Man]

This would be an example of authoritarianism.

no it would be direct parental oversight of the people responsible for the teaching and safety of their kids and it would hold the government agency MORE accountable.

It is power to the people and power taken from government

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Storage isn;t an issue either as the videos can be deleted after 72 hours or so

No, that is not possible. Your plan calls for parents to be able to make an appointment and come watch the videos. What good is a video that is gone in 72 hours? What if the parent is working and does not have time to watch the videos in that 72 hour window?

It would be better to store the videos on the school server for security and it's easy to add storage to servers

Well then that triples the cost of storage, maybe even more.

Once again we see all your reasons for less transparency fall like dominoes

What about the cost of paying enough people to go through 75,000 hours (for one school) of video to ensure there are no privacy issues for the students? How much will that cost?

 

[SweetSue92]

Nothing is better than seeing exactly what goes on in the class.

When enough parents demand it there will be funding it's going to happen whether you like it or not.

And I hate to tell you this but cameras are freaking cheap. So cheap in fact that people have multiple cameras, web cams and security cams all over their homes so price is a nonissue

"Price is a non-issue"....in PUBLIC SCHOOLS

 

[SweetSue92]

Students have no right to privacy in schools.

This is well established law. Lockers and coats can be searched at any time for one example.

And you still can;t tell me the difference between a parent sitting in your class observing and a parent watching that same class on a video because there is no difference.

Dude FERPA. It's a whole law. About privacy

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And you still can;t tell me the difference between a parent sitting in your class observing and a parent watching that same class on a video because there is no difference.

It is the difference between looking at someone as you walk down the street or recording them without their permission.

 

[SweetSue92]

It doesn’t make any difference whether unwarranted surveillance of teachers is live or recorded – it’s yet another Orwellian example of the authoritarian right’s desire to compel conformity and use public education as a political weapon by conservatives.

Uh I'm a conservative and I think this is a horrible idea. Not because I am afraid of being accountable. I have already told this guy that anyone can see my past evaluations, personnel file and salary.

For the students. He does not have the right to spy in on other kids.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Students have no right to privacy in schools.

Then why did we have to sign a release for 12 years for both our children to have their image used in any way by the school?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It doesn't have to be in a special secured room during school hours.

It could easily be done over the web via a secure connection.

You really have no problem solving skills at all.

I have given you multip[le ways to address all your concerns and it all boils down to the fact that YOU don't want to be recorded while you teach

I now work for the military, and we have to have a secure connection for some of our work with PII and PHI. In the last two weeks, we have secured getting one person's computer up and running properly. He's an IT specialist in his other job.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

I am trying to figure out the cost of this endeavor of his.

Thinking about the High School my son graduated from a couple years ago. I would say it has 200 individual classrooms to be conservative. Might be more than that. So, lets say they go cheap and buy low end cameras at 50 bucks each. That is $10,000 for the cameras themselves. Another $5,000 to have them installed and wired.

Assuming the cameras only recorded when class was in session and not in-between classes we are talking about 75,000 hours of video created each day. Now they would need a video staff large enough to go through 75,000 hours of video created each day to ensure the privacy of the students. How many people would it take to do that?

Then they also have to catalogue each video by date and time and classroom.

And then you would need secure server space large enough to hold 75,000 hours of video daily and keep it for a minimum of the school year. Not including summer school we are talking about 13,500,000 hours of video storage. An hour of video takes up about 12gb. So we are talking about 162,000 tb of storage each year for just this one school. Google tells me it cost about 200 bucks a year per TB to store data in a secure cloud. What is 200 x 162,000?

That's a big school.

They only need to review the video if there's an incident. So, there's no personnel who watches it real time.

Disk space is cheap these days. They probably keep a weeks' worth of video at a time. Maybe even as short as a days' worth.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

That's a big school.

It is a good size, but no where near the largest around here.

They only need to review the video if there's an incident. So, there's no personnel who watches it real time.

It is being put forth that the parents should be allowed to view it any time they like for any reason they like. Thus the video would have to be scrubbed of privacy concerns for students prior to that happening.

Disk space is cheap these days. They probably keep a weeks' worth of video at a time. Maybe even as short as a days' worth.

Not that cheap, and 75,000 hours of video per day takes up a lot of space. And it is being put forth the parent should be allowed to view it any time, so it seems that it would need to be kept for at least the school year

 

[Grumblenuts]

For those arguing from an individualist perspective, that actually works both ways:

WHAT IS THE RIGHT TO PRIVACY?​

The right to privacy is not mentioned in the Constitution, but the Supreme Court has said that several of the amendments create this right. One of the amendments is the Fourth Amendment, which stops the police and other government agents from searching us or our property without "probable cause" to believe that we have committed a crime. Other amendments protect our freedom to make certain decisions about our bodies and our private lives without interference from the government - which includes the public schools.

This applies for teachers and students, to students from teachers, and to teachers from parents and other school personnel, police, private security, even from school board members who are often considered the owners or managers of school property, whether officially designated "public" or "private."

Your arguments exude extreme -individual and/or -minority selfishness, -thoughtlessness, -lack of empathy, and -childishness. No respect for your fellow man, workers, neighbors, etc. Everything's about you. Living in constant fear of others rather than having to trust any. This is, ironically enough, what most invites fascism. Privacy is Liberty.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."