Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Grumblenuts]

By the way, if you really believe "that ideas, teachings, and philosophies are all outside the physical realm, so by definition cannot be used as proof" it follows that you wouldn't describe probability as "real." And you be far, far from alone. But go ahead and just think about it.. What is real? See if you can convincingly avoid using probability to discern that which is from what is clearly not.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I'll cut to the chase. Probability is not simply a tool used in statistical math. It's a natural force. You don't believe it, I know. But just let that notion stew in the back of your mind for the next few years..

 

[BreezeWood]

until an atheist provides the origin of their existence they are no different than the madeup desert religions - not the same as the religion of antiquity that does give meaning to the origin of life and the avenue possible for spiritual existence beyond physiology for life in the Everlasting. the triumph of good vs evil.

Well, this atheist has certainly provided his thoughts upon "origins of existence" - "Everlasting" to boot - which possess profound meaning for him. Apparently you outright dismiss them so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this stuff. Again, I really love the picture, however it reveals nothing metaphysical to me. Really just an insect shedding its skin. But the imagination is engaged.

Again, I really love the picture, however it reveals nothing metaphysical to me. Really just an insect shedding its skin.

.
denial is nothing new but neither inherent to atheism or science - are you related to the dark ages, mentality.

no, that is a being that transforms their physiology from a land creature to an avian of unassociated physiological characteristics. and verifies during the process a spiritual state exists transcending from one to the other.

what origins of existence for the physiological substance and corresponding spiritual content was that - non that I noticed.

 

[Meriweather]

You don't believe it, I know.

You know no such thing. If you want to discuss probability, go ahead and discuss it. However, I am not interested in discussing me.

 

[sealybobo]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

 

[sealybobo]

Funny you can't get over the fact Joseph was only 14 when god spoke to him but you can accept the Jesus story. As if it's any less silly.

I am continually astonished at how you change what I put down in writing. Both times I said the pages I scanned in The Book of Mormon struct me as something written by a fourteen year old boy.
I have no reason to disbelieve God spoke to Joseph Smith when he was fourteen. Of course, when I first paged through parts of the Book of Mormon, I knew nothing of this anyway. Speaking to God at 14, and my opinion of a book written at age 14, are two very different things. As far teenage writers go, I was more impressed by SE Hinton who wrote The Outsiders when she was in high school.

Well if it makes you feel better I read the New Testament Bible and found it to be boring ramblings.

I even read the red letter bible where it highlights the things jesus said. Not impressed

 

[sealybobo]

But I also know that Catholics believe one day every other denomination will eventually join the catholic church because you guys believe you are the one true religion. The original.

First I have heard of this. Perhaps you can point me to the page in the Catechism that says this? Meanwhile, I can point you to the page where the Catholic Catechism makes the point that Jews, for one, have their own eternal Covenant with God. To me, it doesn't sound like we are expecting a faith unification anytime in the near future. It is true, we do extend ecumenical outreach to other Christian denominations. One such example is Pastors giving the homily at a neighboring church, or Christian churches joining together for vacation Bible school.

What does catholic mean? A catholic, very devout, told me it means the one true original church and he said you guys believe eventually all churches will come back.

He never showed me where it says that in the Bible I think his priest told him this.

You know why I’d be afraid to be a catholic? Demonic possessions. Seems like the only people Satan Ever possesses are Catholics.

 

[sealybobo]

But I also know that Catholics believe one day every other denomination will eventually join the catholic church because you guys believe you are the one true religion. The original.

First I have heard of this. Perhaps you can point me to the page in the Catechism that says this? Meanwhile, I can point you to the page where the Catholic Catechism makes the point that Jews, for one, have their own eternal Covenant with God. To me, it doesn't sound like we are expecting a faith unification anytime in the near future. It is true, we do extend ecumenical outreach to other Christian denominations. One such example is Pastors giving the homily at a neighboring church, or Christian churches joining together for vacation Bible school.

White American churches need to reach out to black churches and have half the congregation go to the other church so you white and black christians can start getting along better.

 

[Blues Man]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

Where did I ever use the word "illusion"?

And all that man does, feels, thinks or believes in the cosmic scope is meaningless.

 

[Meriweather]

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

What I like about the Catholic Church is that we do not teach about any other church. I find it amazing that first other churches even want to talk about us, and second how they seldom get it right. For Catholics, talking about other denominations during Mass would be an extremely odd thing to do. There isn't time (or opportunity) within the framework of the Mass.

 

[sealybobo]

You know us Greek Orthodox used to be Catholics but then we branched off? Why do you think we left the Catholic Church?

Wording in the Creed, particularly the line of "Proceeds from the Father and the Son". There were other issues as well.

Kind of weird all those Greeks would leave the one and only real religion don’t you think?

Did the Vatican approve? I bet not. What did they say would happen to us if we left Catholicism? So you’re saying it’s ok to make up a new religion just because you don’t like the wording in the creed? And what were those other things? I know one was how you guys worship your popes too much.

Anyways, Im sure you disagree with the Catholic Church back then when they objected to the greeks leaving because you claim god accepts Greek Orthodox into heaven too so clearly it’s ok to leave the Catholic Church and join any of the other denominations. Any one will do. You Catholics have no advantage do you?

 

[sealybobo]

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

What I like about the Catholic Church is that we do not teach about any other church. I find it amazing that first other churches even want to talk about us, and second how they seldom get it right. For Catholics, talking about other denominations during Mass would be an extremely odd thing to do. There isn't time (or opportunity) within the framework of the Mass.

They don’t do it during mass. How long is mass 3 hours? It’s the other 21 hours they talk about other stuff.

oh, I used to be like you. I’d say about the Greek orthodox Church that our church doesn’t do this and doesn’t say that and about 5 years ago we got a conservative priest and he does say and do that stuff now.

So you can only tell me about the one or two Catholic Churches you are familiar with and the however many priests you’ve worshipped under. Not all catholic priests get up every sunday and say the exact same thing do they?

 

[buttercup]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

 

[sealybobo]

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

What I like about the Catholic Church is that we do not teach about any other church. I find it amazing that first other churches even want to talk about us, and second how they seldom get it right. For Catholics, talking about other denominations during Mass would be an extremely odd thing to do. There isn't time (or opportunity) within the framework of the Mass.

You know what I like about the Jewish faith? Tell a Jew you want to become a Jew and see what he or she tells you. They’re supposed to try to talk you out of it. They don’t want new members.

 

[sealybobo]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

 

[sealybobo]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

 

[buttercup]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

 

[Meriweather]

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

As you note, other denominations hold being "saved" in great esteem. The word is seldom used in Catholicism; in some ways the focus is more on redemption. In the Catholic faith, Baptism is a sacrament of initiation where the newborn is welcomed into the Catholic family or community. From a very young age we learn about the forgiveness of sins; how Christ died for us, but more vitally still, he rose from death, ascended to heaven, and sent forth the Holy Spirit. From the beginning we know that sins are forgiven--indeed we can never forget--the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession) and all. We receive and accept Jesus in the Eucharist each time we attend Mass. This ever, continual acceptance of Jesus becomes a part of who we are. Why would anyone want to wait?

Other denominations see it differently. They see accepting Jesus and his covenant of forgiveness of sins as a vital, one time event--done once, done forever. Certainly that would be one of the most memorable, important day of one's life. That approach should never be taken from those who want this.

 

[sealybobo]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

 

[Meriweather]

Well if it makes you feel better I read the New Testament Bible and found it to be boring ramblings.

Especially the genealogies, right?!! I always sigh (maybe even cringe) when the Christmas day reading for that particular year is a genealogy.