Oregon Gov Commutes Sentences of Death Row Inmates

[BluesLegend]

Meanwhile MURDERS in Portland, OR are way up. Nice job Dems you blithering idiots.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

No, I just find it amusing that the same wingnuts who don't trust the government to teach kids about sex or think that a mask mandate is tyranny, thinks that the government is the fair arbiter of who gets to live or die.

Given the outrageous abuses of government on both of those first points, you almost have a point about trusting government to administer justice and punishment.

But the alternative to government-administered justice is vigilantism; everyone who thinks he's been wronged going out to take revenge on the supposed wrongdoer. In fact, that was the essential and original point for which governments were first established, to create a consistent set of laws, and a consistent manner of enforcing them and applying punishments, up to, and including death; and as imperfect as it may be, no one has come up with a better way.

 

[JoeB131]

Given the outrageous abuses of government on both of those first points, you almost have a point about trusting government to administer justice and punishment.

But the alternative to government-administered justice is vigilantism; everyone who thinks he's been wronged going out to take revenge on the supposed wrongdoer. In fact, that was the essential and original point for which governments were first established, to create a consistent set of laws, and a consistent manner of enforcing them and applying punishments, up to, and including death; and as imperfect as it may be, no one has come up with a better way.

I agree. When do we get to that "consistent set of laws". You know, the one where a black kid from the hood is treated the same way as a white kid from the suburbs?

But even putting that to the side, even the best system makes mistakes. You can correct a wrongful conviction, you can't correct a wrongful execution.

190 people have been exonerated from death row.
20 people who might have been innocent were executed anyway.

 

[martybegan]

It's also is prohibited by the Cruel and Unusual clause, as was found in Furman v. Georgia




Except that if you find out in five years you got the wrong guy, you can let him out. You can't unexecute a person.

And that crap SC diktat was fixed by modifying the laws.

It takes 10 years minimum to execute someone, plenty of time.

And no one cares about the guy who dies after 50 years in prison, guilty or not evidently.

 

[JoeB131]

And that crap SC diktat was fixed by modifying the laws.

It takes 10 years minimum to execute someone, plenty of time.

Actually, the problem still exists... everything SCOTUS said about inequities in the system, including the racism, are still an issue.

And no one cares about the guy who dies after 50 years in prison, guilty or not evidently.

Oh, no, it's an indication of a flawed system.
Flawed systems shouldn't have ultimate, irreversible penalties.

 

[martybegan]

Actually, the problem still exists... everything SCOTUS said about inequities in the system, including the racism, are still an issue.


Oh, no, it's an indication of a flawed system.
Flawed systems shouldn't have ultimate, irreversible penalties.

The only issue is bleeding heart progs like you preferring the criminal over the victim.

'Someone rotting for 50 years in a prison and dying is pretty irreversible.

 

[JoeB131]

The only issue is bleeding heart progs like you preferring the criminal over the victim.

'Someone rotting for 50 years in a prison and dying is pretty irreversible.

If you think that's so bad, why are you bitching about it?

No, guy, killing someone doesn't help the victim. Their loved one is still dead.

And of course, if you execute the wrong guy, they will definitely feel worse.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Yes.. too bad those aren't the crimes most people are being executed for. Often the heinous murderers get good lawyers and get off, while the poor schlub who drove his buddy to the stickup gets the death penalty.

The point is, we are only executing 20 people a year. The number of people being sent to Death Row is also declining, because people are just realizing the folly of it all.



Yeah, Europe is whiter than we are. France is 84% white. The UK is 86% white. Germany is 87% white.
The US is 69% white and dropping.

The rest of the world is ending capital punishment, we are in very bad company by retaining it.

No, I just find it amusing that the same wingnuts who don't trust the government to teach kids about sex or think that a mask mandate is tyranny, thinks that the government is the fair arbiter of who gets to live or die.

If you could somehow guarantee that a murderer, would remain in prison until they die, then you would see a lot of pro-death penalty people, change their minds.

 

[JoeB131]

If you could somehow guarantee that a murderer, would remain in prison until they die, then you would see a lot of pro-death penalty people, change their minds.

I honestly don't think you would. Reading the posts of Mormon Bob and Farty Began, these people have a major murder boner, they want to murder someone.

 

[martybegan]

If you think that's so bad, why are you bitching about it?

No, guy, killing someone doesn't help the victim. Their loved one is still dead.

And of course, if you execute the wrong guy, they will definitely feel worse.

Again, is imprisoning the wrong guy for 50 years inherently better?

It's about the victims families, and society saying some crimes deserve you losing your life.

 

[pknopp]

Again, is imprisoning the wrong guy for 50 years inherently better?

At least the state wouldn't be guilty of the same crime they locked someone away for.

 

[martybegan]

At least the state wouldn't be guilty of the same crime they locked someone away for.

The State can't be guilty of murder because the execution is a legal homicide.

Stop trying to redefine words.

 

[pknopp]

The State can't be guilty of murder because the execution is a legal homicide.

Stop trying to redefine words.

One would have been wrong accused of killing an innocent man and the other would have actually done it.

If you don't want your question answered, don't ask it.

 

[martybegan]

One would have been wrong accused of killing an innocent man and the other would have actually done it.

If you don't want your question answered, don't ask it.

It's not murder, no matter how many times you claim it is.

 

[pknopp]

It's not murder, no matter how many times you claim it is.

And yet I never mentioned that did I? I said one would have killed an innocent man when the other was only wrongly accused of it.

You can try and deflect from that if you wish.

If one can be put to death for killing an innocent man, why shouldn't it apply to all?

 

[martybegan]

And yet I never mentioned that did I? I said one would have killed an innocent man when the other was only wrongly accused of it.

You can try and deflect from that if you wish.

If one can be put to death for killing an innocent man, why shouldn't it apply to all?

And again, imprisoning an innocent person for 50 years and letting them die in jail is better how?

If you go all absolutist, then we have to scrap the entire justice system.

 

[pknopp]

And again, imprisoning an innocent person for 50 years and letting them die in jail is better how?

I answered.

 

[martybegan]

I answered.

No, you didn't.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, is imprisoning the wrong guy for 50 years inherently better?

That's 50 years they can use clearing their name.

It's about the victims families, and society saying some crimes deserve you losing your life.

Executing people never makes anyone feel better.
Society doesn't say this on a consistent basis.

 

[martybegan]

That's 50 years they can use clearing their name.


Executing people never makes anyone feel better.
Society doesn't say this on a consistent basis.

The only reason people these days fight so hard for some convicted people is because of the death penalty, and most of these fights are over the mental state of the person, or some other technicality, not the actual guilt of the person.

It makes some of the victims families and friends feel better. you can't dispute that with just a blanket statement about it never doing that.

Why does consistency have to do with it? All Capital crimes are unique, and some require the ultimate punishment.

Did you think the Nuremberg executions were unjust?