OSHA Mandate Headed for Supreme Court

[Ray From Cleveland]

When you speak of person's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, you seem to not include the employer in that.

The employers are included in that, but their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include forcing other citizens to their will or demands.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This is very much the libertarian view, that a private company should be allowed to make their own rules. We think that anti-discrimination laws apply to the Govt, not to private entities.

The Govt should not make business decisions for private companies.

Then you think that companies should be allowed to not hire minorities, disabled people or women if they don't want them?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Let's not forget, that when those tornadoes hit the midwest last week, we are getting horror stories about how Amazon and that Candle Factory told people anyone who left would be fired.

And supposedly (if true) they are going to sue over it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, the fact that you could come in and spread the disease to your coworkers would be kind of their business.

Which you can do whether you are vaxed or not.

 

[eagle1462010]

And I think a private company should be allowed to have that power.



This is correct, you can tell your employer no and they can stop giving you a pay check. You both have a choice.

Same choice for being sued and later owning that company if they force you to take the jab. They SAID OR ELSE..............take the jab and sue the fuck out of them.

Catch 22. Hope some start doing that and end this.

How about we repeal the 1985 get out of jail card for vaccine makers while we are at it. And see how quick they go bankrupt on this.

 

[task0778]

I understand why it was done, but I still do not think the Constitution actually allows it.

I assume you mean the anti-discrimination laws (civil rights)? I get the idea of a limited gov't in terms of it's power over the governed, but a central gov't has to have enough authority to enforce the principles we live by. Namely equality before the law and in the marketplace. It is obviously insufficient to leave that to the 'invisible hand' of the free market and it didn't work before. Things are bad enough as they are now, without reverting back to allowing discrimination to flourish more than it does now.

Why do you believe the Constitution doesn't or shouldn't allow such laws?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you were to start charging abortion as "murder", then you would have to open 600,000 homicide investigations per year. By way of comparison, the number of homicides in the US (not counting 2020, which had a spike) is about 19,000 a year. Only 54% of those are cleared.

It's still killing the child. In my state if a lowlife shoots a pregnant woman, she dies and the baby dies, you will be charged with 2 counts of murder: One count for the mother and the other count for her fetus.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A fetus the size of a Kidney Bean is not a person. As a practical matter, a ban on abortion is going to do more harm than good. Unless you are going to put a woman under house arrest from the time she gets knocked up until she drops the kid, if she doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way to not be pregnant.

On the other hand, enforcing a vaccine mandate is pretty easy. You can't go to your job or a public venue without a vax card. We've been enforcing vaccine mandates in schools for years. And while you might get the occassional idiot who lets her kid die of measles because she listened to Jenny McCarthy, most people go along with it.

The difference is those vaccines have been thoroughly tested and we had all the research to assure their safety. These vaccines were created and passed out in less than a year. Now, I understand the urgency, but I also understand why some people would not want to take them at the same time. That's why it should be an individual choice.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm sure you believe that. So how is it that NOT ONE Faux News employee has refused to get the shot and has proudly said so?

I don't understand the question. They believe in the vaccine but don't believe in government mandates. What's wrong with that? I got the vaccine and I don't believe in forcing others to do the same. Most of us on the right feel this way. We are small government people.

Not at all. Trump killed 450,000 people in nine months... 350,000 people have died since he left because he and his followers refuse to get their shots. When the other side is ACTIVELY FRUSTRATING Biden's efforts to get it under control, you really can't blame him. I mean, if you are intellectually honest.

So how about this. Mandate EVERYONE gets their shots. Anyone who still dies after that is Biden's fault.

So in other words, as usual, it's never the Democrat's fault.

"Folks, Democrats have two sets of rules: One set for them, and another set for the rest of us."
Rush Limbaugh

It's a shame he passed away being so accurate all the time.

Employers force you do to things all the time under threat of firing you. They can drug test you, make you adhere to a dress code, etc, etc.

And usually, the government backs them up. They should here, too.

The difference is that companies tell you they require random drug screening before you take the job so you have a choice. I had to wear a uniform at work before when I was delivering and repairing medical equipment. It didn't effect me personally because I took the uniform off when I got home from work.

However a vaccine is with you 24/7. If you are concerned about long term health effects, you have to also be concerned 24/7--not just while you are at work. You can't remove the vaccine once you get home.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Constitution is supposed to be about what the Govt can and cannot do. They cannot restrict (for the most part) your freedom of religion. The Constitution is not supposed to apply to private companies.

It is my view that even Anti-discrimination laws should only apply to the government, I think it is actually against the Constitution to enforce them on private entities. I also think that "protected classes" violate the equal protection clause.

But I guess all of that is for a different thread

I agree with you but the Constitution does not prohibit government from making anti-discrimination laws. If as an employer I don't hire a black guy because he's black, it has nothing to do with the Constitution, it has to do with me violating federal and state laws.

 

[JoeB131]

The employers are included in that, but their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include forcing other citizens to their will or demands.

They always have the option of quitting... the problem is, anyone else would still insist on the same vaccination status

Then you think that companies should be allowed to not hire minorities, disabled people or women if they don't want them?

If they could come up with a valid safety rationale, sure.
For instance, women/disabled are excluded from a lot of heavy lifting jobs by physical requirements.

And supposedly (if true) they are going to sue over it.

Sue? Fuck that, these fuckers belong in jail with a large cellmate and a jar of vasoline.

Which you can do whether you are vaxed or not.

True but if EVERYONE is vaxed, it doesn't make a difference. Herd immunity.

It's still killing the child. In my state if a lowlife shoots a pregnant woman, she dies and the baby dies, you will be charged with 2 counts of murder: One count for the mother and the other count for her fetus.

And we've ALREADY seen these stupid laws abused to go after women who have had miscarriages.

The difference is those vaccines have been thoroughly tested and we had all the research to assure their safety. These vaccines were created and passed out in less than a year. Now, I understand the urgency, but I also understand why some people would not want to take them at the same time. That's why it should be an individual choice.

Or not. Come on, guy, if Trump were still president, you'd be questioning the loyalty of anyone who didnt' take 'his' vaccine.

Now you just want to drag this out so he doesn't look so bad.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Only if you are practicing your religion on their time

No, they really can't. Companies have been sued for not adhering to Muslim traditions and laws. One story I remember is a cashier who refused to scan pork products. She was fired and successfully sued the company. In other instance a pair of Muslim truck drivers refused to take a trailer of alcohol to a warehouse and were fired. They too won their lawsuit. In NYC, if you have a pet with you, a Muslim cab driver does not have to pick you up because their religion teaches that dogs are filthy animals and they should stay away from them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I figure this: we will see if the Supreme Court is owned or not. I think Roberts has been owned for years.

Benedict Roberts has always been a toss up. I guess it depends if he's in a liberal mood or conservative.

 

[JoeB131]

No, they really can't. Companies have been sued for not adhering to Muslim traditions and laws. One story I remember is a cashier who refused to scan pork products. She was fired and successfully sued the company. In other instance a pair of Muslim truck drivers refused to take a trailer of alcohol to a warehouse and were fired. They too won their lawsuit. In NYC, if you have a pet with you, a Muslim cab driver does not have to pick you up because their religion teaches that dogs are filthy animals and they should stay away from them.

That's the point. All of these situations had reasonable accommodations.

Actually, do you have link for this story you "remember"? (I usually ignore your links) The only case I can find is of a MALE Costco employee who was assigned to cart collection for refusing to ring up pork, and was later fired for insubordination.

Don't put the girl on cashier duty, or let someone else ring up that order. That's a reasonable accommedation. You could also make it clear up front when hiring them that the job requires handling pork and alcohol.

Get a different truck driver to make those deliveries.

And, yes, anyone can refuse to have an animal in their car, not just Muslims. The only exception is the often abused "Service Animal".

 

[struth]

We are losing 400,000 people a year to Covid.
We lose 10,511 people a year to drunk driving incidents (and this includes the drunks themselves.)

Yet look at all the resources we pour into interdiction of drunk driving. Now, frankly, we could solve the problem a lot better if we simply installed a breath lock on every car, but then we'd get some right winger screaming about "Freedom" or something.

yeah...freaking stupid freedom....geez....it always seem to get in the way.

Here's my advice, if you can't control yourself enough, not to have drink and drive...then put the device on your car yourself....if you are so worried about life in general that you need others to take care of you, because you can't control your free will and be responsible...why don't you go live in a prison?

As for me, I can control myself, and enjoy my freedom of choice...so...take care.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They always have the option of quitting... the problem is, anyone else would still insist on the same vaccination status

Very few places do require it. If quitting is an option, you sure bitch about your job and past jobs without including that is always an option.

If they could come up with a valid safety rationale, sure.
For instance, women/disabled are excluded from a lot of heavy lifting jobs by physical requirements.

That's not what we're talking about here.

True but if EVERYONE is vaxed, it doesn't make a difference. Herd immunity.

If everybody was vaxed we would still have the covid problem because you can get covid and pass covid vaxed or not. That's the point. This vaccine doesn't even work on the new Omicron variant, so what good was getting vaxed?

Or not. Come on, guy, if Trump were still president, you'd be questioning the loyalty of anyone who didnt' take 'his' vaccine.

Now you just want to drag this out so he doesn't look so bad.

Drag what out? It's you commies that started this bullshit that covid deaths was Trump's fault, but now you want to make a bunch of childish excuses when even more people are dying under your dementia patient. Instead of just being honest and saying "We lied, but we are Democrats so it's our nature. Covid deaths were not Trump's responsibility and we were just playing politics with it as usual" you double down on stupid.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's the point. All of these situations had reasonable accommodations.

Actually, do you have link for this story you "remember"? (I usually ignore your links) The only case I can find is of a MALE Costco employee who was assigned to cart collection for refusing to ring up pork, and was later fired for insubordination.

Don't put the girl on cashier duty, or let someone else ring up that order. That's a reasonable accommedation. You could also make it clear up front when hiring them that the job requires handling pork and alcohol.

Get a different truck driver to make those deliveries.

And, yes, anyone can refuse to have an animal in their car, not just Muslims. The only exception is the often abused "Service Animal".

How do they know if it's a service animal or not unless they stop and pick them up first? They just refuse to stop is all.

My only point was to Gator's comment that people can't bring their religion to work with them. Yes they can as long as they are not Christian.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Except they have for years, guy. Which is why little Timmy can't go to a public or even a private school unless he's had all his vaccinations.

Oh, really? Which federal edict was that, Walter?

 

[JoeB131]

yeah...freaking stupid freedom....geez....it always seem to get in the way.

Here's my advice, if you can't control yourself enough, not to have drink and drive...then put the device on your car yourself....if you are so worried about life in general that you need others to take care of you, because you can't control your free will and be responsible...why don't you go live in a prison?

As for me, I can control myself, and enjoy my freedom of choice...so...take care.

I'm happy for you... some nitwit who caused a fatal car crash probably thought the same thing, and he was totally okay to drive after drinking 80 Proof skullcracker.

Oh, really? Which federal edict was that, Walter?

U.S. vaccine mandates in schools, state by state

Every U.S. state requires vaccines for public school students. See which vaccines are mandated and which exemptions are allowed by your state.

graphics.reuters.com

 

[JoeB131]

How do they know if it's a service animal or not unless they stop and pick them up first? They just refuse to stop is all.

My only point was to Gator's comment that people can't bring their religion to work with them. Yes they can as long as they are not Christian.

Yes, how dare Muslims expect to have equal rights.... don't you know rights are only for white, straight, Christian Males.

And if you don't have a real story, just make one up.

Did you find the cashier who was fired for not ringing up pork yet?

Christians sue their employers all the time... Here's some more articles for you to take one line out of context on.

Christian Fired for Refusing to Work Sundays Awarded $21M in Lawsuit

Marie Jean Pierre received a sizable settlement after suing for religious discrimination.

www.ebony.com

Firm sued for religious discrimination in firing man over fingerprinting - UPI.com

The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is suing a Minnesota company, alleging discrimination by firing an employee who refused to be fingerprinted on the basis of his Christian faith.

www.upi.com