Our Government Has Forgotten Its Place

[norwegen]

It’s not that this ‘isn’t new,’ it’s that this is a non-issue.

The OP, and those who agree with him, makes the mistake of perceiving 'the government' and 'the people' as two separate and distinct entities.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

The people and the government are one in the same; the government acts at the behest of the people, where the people are solely responsible for the good - or bad - government they get.

So, should the American Colonists have followed this reasoning when they settled here in America? You buffoon.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


-Declaration of Independence

Are you an idiot? The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away. There is no comparison between that and our current govenment being of and for the people. Instead of bitching, do something. Crawl out of your internet cave and be active in the community and fight for the rights you think you should have. Being a blowhard is doing nothing. Nada. No one is impressed.

To be sure, George III was not all powerful. The Americans began seating their own legislatures and governing themselves before the Revolutionary War even started. The impetus for their doing so was not so much because they were oppressed, but more because they were Whigs who were excited about erecting their own republican governments in their egalitarian societies (that is, societies devoid of inherited aristocracies (please don't cry about the slaves)). And, more than actually being oppressed, they were anticipating oppression, as they were witnessing the erosion of liberties in England and some of her other commonwealths. Oppression that directly correlated with the growth of the monarchy.

You're right: there is no comparison between that and our current government. The Americans of the 1760s and '70s were not nearly as oppressed as the Americans of today are.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It has become clearly evident that our government has forgotten its place in America. For reasons beyond my comprehension, our government now sees itself as the final authority on just about everything. If you want to get married, you have to ask the government first. You want a gun? You have to ask the government first. If you want to protest peacefully, you have to ask the government for a permit. If you are an 8 year old so much as wanting to sell lemonade on the street corner, you need to ask the government for permission.

Not only that, it wants to take over your personal choices as well. Why? Because it believes that it can do a better job than you at making your own choices in life. Even the very freedom to make a choice has been commandeered by our government. Look no further for an example this than the implementation of Obamacare. Government has become too large, too all encompassing for its own good. It has attempted to regulate the auto industry, and failed. It is trying to regulate our healthcare system, and once again failing. In fact, it is trying to regulate religion via the abortion mandate.

Nobody can be secure in their own privacy, no thanks to government. As evidenced by the NSA not even the contents of our phone conversations are secure. It has become more invasive, more imposing than ever before. Our politicians are unable and unwilling to cull its growth. Democrats will say "Oh, we need government, without government there is anarchy!" I would agree, if not only for the fact that we already have too much of it. Yes, we need government, but to what extent? With too much government there can only be tyranny, oppression, and undue advancement on our freedom.

Our rights as citizens are slowly diminishing in America, and Government is to blame. It has gone beyond its constitutional bounds. It doesn't matter who is president or what party is in power. The government has too much power. For those of you who believe our government cares about the people, nothing could be further from the truth. If they actually did, they would strive to protect the rights of its citizens, not usurp them on a constant basis. Government seeks to control you, from cradle to grave. Like a Leviathan in the waters, it lies in wait to consume the unsuspecting, and exact terrible vengeance on those who dare to stand against it. This, my friends, is how our government has forgotten it's place.

We The People built this government, and it's high time government understood its place once again.

Ignorant, partisan nonsense.

More Americans enjoy greater freedom and liberty today than at any other time in our Nation's history.

Gay Americans, for example, are at the threshold of finally realizing their comprehensive civil rights.

You say that without a shred of evidence. Here are three examples of how you're dead wrong.

1. What this government does is hand out rights at the expense of others. Gay rights? At the expense of the religious beliefs of proprietors in business? If you don't serve a homosexual for want of holding to your faith, you're vilified. You're destroyed. Somehow, gay rights trump religious rights. Somehow, your First Amendment rights disappear if you wish to enter into entrepreneurship.

2. The abortion mandate takes away the freedom to adhere to your faith. It says that a group of nuns must provide in their insurance policy for abortifacients and abortive care. By doing such you are saying a woman's reproductive rights trump religious rights.

3. For gun control, you think the only way to preserve your right to self preservation is to deprive others of their means to that right. You believe your right to be safe though gun control trumps the rights of others to be safe by the use of a firearm.

Funny, you think government is the only thing that can grant you your freedom. How naive, how short sighted. You think rights are granted without consequences or strings attached. How narrow minded.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Governments job is to maintain our society. I vote for the government and expect it to do a good job.

I expect it to regulate the private sector....

 

[TemplarKormac]

Governments job is to maintain our society. I vote for the government and expect it to do a good job.

I expect it to regulate the private sector....

 

[Esmeralda]

So, should the American Colonists have followed this reasoning when they settled here in America? You buffoon.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


-Declaration of Independence

Are you an idiot? The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away. There is no comparison between that and our current govenment being of and for the people. Instead of bitching, do something. Crawl out of your internet cave and be active in the community and fight for the rights you think you should have. Being a blowhard is doing nothing. Nada. No one is impressed.

To be sure, George III was not all powerful. The Americans began seating their own legislatures and governing themselves before the Revolutionary War even started. The impetus for their doing so was not so much because they were oppressed, but more because they were Whigs who were excited about erecting their own republican governments in their egalitarian societies (that is, societies devoid of inherited aristocracies (please don't cry about the slaves)). And, more than actually being oppressed, they were anticipating oppression, as they were witnessing the erosion of liberties in England and some of her other commonwealths. Oppression that directly correlated with the growth of the monarchy.

You're right: there is no comparison between that and our current government. The Americans of the 1760s and '70s were not nearly as oppressed as the Americans of today are.

Way to rewrite history! Wow, impressive. They were paying a substantial amount of taxes to a government that gave them nothing in return. That's what the Boston Tea Party was all about. If you think that they Colonists were better off being ruled by the monarchy in London than we are under our current government, you are ignorant beyond belief. My God! You people will say any treasonous, anti-patriotic hooey in order to make a point. Could see if push came to shove how you would all stand up proudly as traitors to your county to defend your unfathomable, out of control, illogical beliefs. Sad, really sad.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It may not be new, but that doesn't stop us from resisting it. There is no reason a person should allow a group of bureaucrats and politicians to have free reign over the people they are supposed to be subservient to.

It isn’t new, in fact it’s a trite, tedious, inane, and tired cliché.

If you believe your civil liberties are being violated then file suit in Federal court to seek relief, or get involved at the local level in politics.

But whining about ‘the big, bad government not knowing “its place”’ is naive, childish schoolboy politics.

I completely agree. The govenment needs to regulate certain things. I swear, these people who constantly complain about the government overstepping its bounds need to move to a third world country where people don't have decent protection from the government on almost any level. AND live there like a citizen of that country lives, not as ex-pats live. I've read over and over again how someone has lived in certain countries and knows what it is like. Hogwash. You don't know what it is like for a normal citizen to live there when you are an ex-pat living like a citizen from the West. Most govenment regulations are there to protect us from people who take advantage, from dangerous situations, from big business and small business who take advantage, from dangerous people, etc. Without those government regulations, the average working class citizen has little chance of being more than a doormat for those with wealth and power. Which makes it completely mystifying why any working class people would support the Republican party.

Correct.

We live in the greatest Nation in the world, Americans enjoy greater freedom and liberty than anywhere else in the world, and we owe that to a government created in the context of a Constitutional Republic, where the people are subject to the rule of law, not men – as men are incapable of ruling justly. Our system of checks and balances, the right of the people to a republican form of government, and the right of the people to petition government for a redress of grievances in the Federal courts represents the genius of the Framers and their understanding as to what kind of government would foster freedom and individual liberty – and that is the government we currently have and enjoy.

But many, such as the OP, are blind to these facts; they see only the contrived and false talking points of the infantile right and libertarians who fail to understand that we the people are the government, we determine the nature of our government, and the people are responsible for the actions of their government.

 

[jon_berzerk]

It’s not that this ‘isn’t new,’ it’s that this is a non-issue.

The OP, and those who agree with him, makes the mistake of perceiving 'the government' and 'the people' as two separate and distinct entities.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

The people and the government are one in the same; the government acts at the behest of the people, where the people are solely responsible for the good - or bad - government they get.

So, should the American Colonists have followed this reasoning when they settled here in America? You buffoon.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


-Declaration of Independence

Are you an idiot? The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away. There is no comparison between that and our current govenment being of and for the people. Instead of bitching, do something. Crawl out of your internet cave and be active in the community and fight for the rights you think you should have. Being a blowhard is doing nothing. Nada. No one is impressed.

The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away.

we fought against a tyranny

during the revolution

3% of the colonists actively fought

actively support 10%

another 20% favored but did nothing

33% sided with the king

by wars end more colonists fought for the king then against him

 

[norwegen]

Are you an idiot? The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away. There is no comparison between that and our current govenment being of and for the people. Instead of bitching, do something. Crawl out of your internet cave and be active in the community and fight for the rights you think you should have. Being a blowhard is doing nothing. Nada. No one is impressed.

To be sure, George III was not all powerful. The Americans began seating their own legislatures and governing themselves before the Revolutionary War even started. The impetus for their doing so was not so much because they were oppressed, but more because they were Whigs who were excited about erecting their own republican governments in their egalitarian societies (that is, societies devoid of inherited aristocracies (please don't cry about the slaves)). And, more than actually being oppressed, they were anticipating oppression, as they were witnessing the erosion of liberties in England and some of her other commonwealths. Oppression that directly correlated with the growth of the monarchy.

You're right: there is no comparison between that and our current government. The Americans of the 1760s and '70s were not nearly as oppressed as the Americans of today are.

Way to rewrite history! Wow, impressive. They were paying a substantial amount of taxes to a government that gave them nothing in return. That's what the Boston Tea Party was all about. If you think that they Colonists were better off being ruled by the monarchy in London than we are under our current government, you are ignorant beyond belief. My God! You people will say any treasonous, anti-patriotic hooey in order to make a point. Could see if push came to shove how you would all stand up proudly as traitors to your county to defend your unfathomable, out of control, illogical beliefs. Sad, really sad.

The Boston Tea Party was not about high taxes. Per the Tea Act of 1773, the price of tea was actually reduced.

The several tea parties of the 1770s, Shays' Rebellion, the Whiskey Rebellion, and a few other protests here and there were against an impending tyranny, and prompted such acts as the Coercive Acts, but the actual, present tyranny was not one that taxed labor and restricted such mundane things as what we eat and drink.

 

[norwegen]

So, should the American Colonists have followed this reasoning when they settled here in America? You buffoon.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."


-Declaration of Independence

Are you an idiot? The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away. There is no comparison between that and our current govenment being of and for the people. Instead of bitching, do something. Crawl out of your internet cave and be active in the community and fight for the rights you think you should have. Being a blowhard is doing nothing. Nada. No one is impressed.

The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away.

we fought against a tyranny

during the revolution

3% of the colonists actively fought

actively support 10%

another 20% favored but did nothing

33% sided with the king

by wars end more colonists fought for the king then against him

Stupid Americans, siding with their oppressor.

 

[ScienceRocks]

So you don't like your roads, first rate science and civilization.

I don't understand a people that can root for hunter gathering.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are you an idiot? The colonists were rebelling against an all powerful monarch in a country thousands of miles away. There is no comparison between that and our current govenment being of and for the people. Instead of bitching, do something. Crawl out of your internet cave and be active in the community and fight for the rights you think you should have. Being a blowhard is doing nothing. Nada. No one is impressed.

To be sure, George III was not all powerful. The Americans began seating their own legislatures and governing themselves before the Revolutionary War even started. The impetus for their doing so was not so much because they were oppressed, but more because they were Whigs who were excited about erecting their own republican governments in their egalitarian societies (that is, societies devoid of inherited aristocracies (please don't cry about the slaves)). And, more than actually being oppressed, they were anticipating oppression, as they were witnessing the erosion of liberties in England and some of her other commonwealths. Oppression that directly correlated with the growth of the monarchy.

You're right: there is no comparison between that and our current government. The Americans of the 1760s and '70s were not nearly as oppressed as the Americans of today are.

Way to rewrite history! Wow, impressive. They were paying a substantial amount of taxes to a government that gave them nothing in return. That's what the Boston Tea Party was all about. If you think that they Colonists were better off being ruled by the monarchy in London than we are under our current government, you are ignorant beyond belief. My God! You people will say any treasonous, anti-patriotic hooey in order to make a point. Could see if push came to shove how you would all stand up proudly as traitors to your county to defend your unfathomable, out of control, illogical beliefs. Sad, really sad.

They were called British colonies first for a reason, Esmeralda. Wonder why? Because from 1607 to 1733, they WERE UNDER BRITISH RULE. I find it very telling that you would refer to us as "treasonous" and "anti-patriotic." If you actually knew any modicum of historical fact, you would know that the Boston Tea Party was a result of a government that had forgotten it's place with the people. The British monarchy though it could simply push the envelope as far as they wished, but lo and behold, that triggered an insurrection.

And just as an aside:

Sir William Blackstone's commentaries on the English Law were used as a template for the laws and regulations in the fledgling American government as well. Much of American law has a basis from those antiquated beginnings.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And norwegen has a point. Back in the 1760's and 1770's, one thing the monarchy couldn't do was constantly surveil others in their homes. They resorted to taxation and kingly decrees to exact their form of oppression.

So in that respect, norwegen is correct, they were a bit better off than we are today. They had their privacy, we don't.

 

[JoeB131]

[
This post makes my mouth water.

Really? We all thought you were just foaming at the mouth.

[

I have to ask Tampon, just how much interaction is he having with government on a daily basis, because the way he is carrying on, you'd think there's a guy in a trenchcoat outside his house monitoring him.

"Tampon." How cute.

First, your penchant for hyperbole is almost legendary here. There doesn't need to be some guy in a trench coat monitoring me. When the government taxes me, I'm interacting with it. When I file for income tax, I'm interacting with it. When my government passes a law, it affects me. On a daily basis I live under the rule of law, which has been enacted by previous versions of the same government. Moving on.


Likewise, your penchant for understatement is also legendary. Frankly, your idea of government is fairly naive. You're intentionally downplaying the role the government is playing in your life. Let me repeat myself: When you're taxed, you're interacting with your government. When you live under the rule of law, that's interaction and subservience to government. Given that you've had a long career, you've paid taxes more than once a year. Your wages are taxed, meaning each paycheck you got was taxed, whether you liked it or not. That's government. Like a program running in the background on my computer, the government runs in the background in your life. There also comes a time when it takes more active roles, namely dictating marriage, commerce, free speech, self defense and the like. Government does not "provide services quietly." Read what Marcus Tullius Cicero had to say about government.

Yeah, and it was really funny when Mark Anthony cut off his head, too. Dipshit. Seriously, fuck Cicero. The guy dropped to his knees for every dictator and despot that came along in Rome.

Guy, you have no job, you are living off of others, and you are whining about taxes.

Really, guy. Really?

No one likes paying taxes, but frankly, I like drinking clean water, I like the fact the bad guys are locked up, I like the fact that the streets I drive on are paved. I even like that old people get their medical expenses paid. This is the cost of living in a civilized society.

And you had no problem with the government dictating marriage until they said the queers could do it.

 

[JoeB131]

And norwegen has a point. Back in the 1760's and 1770's, one thing the monarchy couldn't do was constantly surveil others in their homes. They resorted to taxation and kingly decrees to exact their form of oppression.

So in that respect, norwegen is correct, they were a bit better off than we are today. They had their privacy, we don't.

Guy, what is the government going to find out about you by "surveilling" you that you don't already broadcast loudly on the internet?

 

[Politico]

No it hasn't. The voters have forgotten theirs.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Outside of illegal spying, Our government is considered quite small capably to the rest of the first world.

We need more funding for science, education and infrastructure. This is what sane people would demand!

 

[ScienceRocks]

Ignorant, partisan nonsense.

More Americans enjoy greater freedom and liberty today than at any other time in our Nation's history.

Gay Americans, for example, are at the threshold of finally realizing their comprehensive civil rights.

You say that without a shred of evidence. Here are three examples of how you're dead wrong.

1. What this government does is hand out rights at the expense of others. Gay rights? At the expense of the religious beliefs of proprietors in business? If you don't serve a homosexual for want of holding to your faith, you're vilified. You're destroyed. Somehow, gay rights trump religious rights. Somehow, your First Amendment rights disappear if you wish to enter into entrepreneurship.

2. The abortion mandate takes away the freedom to adhere to your faith. It says that a group of nuns must provide in their insurance policy for abortifacients and abortive care. By doing such you are saying a woman's reproductive rights trump religious rights.

3. For gun control, you think the only way to preserve your right to self preservation is to deprive others of their means to that right. You believe your right to be safe though gun control trumps the rights of others to be safe by the use of a firearm.

Funny, you think government is the only thing that can grant you your freedom. How naive, how short sighted. You think rights are granted without consequences or strings attached. How narrow minded.

A kid arguing with his teachers.

Those are some piss poor examples. Really....shitty.

His examples could of been stated 70 years ago with blacks. From the right to serve to the government forcing blacks to interrogate into society,

 

[TemplarKormac]

[
This post makes my mouth water.

Really? We all thought you were just foaming at the mouth.

[

I have to ask Tampon, just how much interaction is he having with government on a daily basis, because the way he is carrying on, you'd think there's a guy in a trenchcoat outside his house monitoring him.

"Tampon." How cute.

First, your penchant for hyperbole is almost legendary here. There doesn't need to be some guy in a trench coat monitoring me. When the government taxes me, I'm interacting with it. When I file for income tax, I'm interacting with it. When my government passes a law, it affects me. On a daily basis I live under the rule of law, which has been enacted by previous versions of the same government. Moving on.


Likewise, your penchant for understatement is also legendary. Frankly, your idea of government is fairly naive. You're intentionally downplaying the role the government is playing in your life. Let me repeat myself: When you're taxed, you're interacting with your government. When you live under the rule of law, that's interaction and subservience to government. Given that you've had a long career, you've paid taxes more than once a year. Your wages are taxed, meaning each paycheck you got was taxed, whether you liked it or not. That's government. Like a program running in the background on my computer, the government runs in the background in your life. There also comes a time when it takes more active roles, namely dictating marriage, commerce, free speech, self defense and the like. Government does not "provide services quietly." Read what Marcus Tullius Cicero had to say about government.

Yeah, and it was really funny when Mark Anthony cut off his head, too. Dipshit. Seriously, fuck Cicero. The guy dropped to his knees for every dictator and despot that came along in Rome.

Guy, you have no job, you are living off of others, and you are whining about taxes.

Really, guy. Really?

No one likes paying taxes, but frankly, I like drinking clean water, I like the fact the bad guys are locked up, I like the fact that the streets I drive on are paved. I even like that old people get their medical expenses paid. This is the cost of living in a civilized society.

And you had no problem with the government dictating marriage until they said the queers could do it.

Uhhh, so, going into a blind rage and insulting my job situation will make you more correct? My grandmother supports me, I support her in return. It's mooching if I'm not returning the favor.

As to the rest of post:

Ha. You have nothing else to say about Cicero other than "fuck him." Really, Joe? Really?

You are a Communist Progressive. If you got your way, you would play a twisted version of Robbing er Robin Hood. You have no problem with religious freedom only if it gets suppressed for your idea of the "greater good."

 

[TemplarKormac]

No it hasn't. The voters have forgotten theirs.

Really now? Blaming the victim for the disease?

 

[LoneLaugher]

You say that without a shred of evidence. Here are three examples of how you're dead wrong.

1. What this government does is hand out rights at the expense of others. Gay rights? At the expense of the religious beliefs of proprietors in business? If you don't serve a homosexual for want of holding to your faith, you're vilified. You're destroyed. Somehow, gay rights trump religious rights. Somehow, your First Amendment rights disappear if you wish to enter into entrepreneurship.

2. The abortion mandate takes away the freedom to adhere to your faith. It says that a group of nuns must provide in their insurance policy for abortifacients and abortive care. By doing such you are saying a woman's reproductive rights trump religious rights.

3. For gun control, you think the only way to preserve your right to self preservation is to deprive others of their means to that right. You believe your right to be safe though gun control trumps the rights of others to be safe by the use of a firearm.

Funny, you think government is the only thing that can grant you your freedom. How naive, how short sighted. You think rights are granted without consequences or strings attached. How narrow minded.

A kid arguing with his teachers.

Those are some piss poor examples. Really....shitty.

And what are you teaching me exactly? How do be a jackass? Quiet you.

Well, I wasn't referring to me in this case. You were not arguing with me. Now you are though.

Pick one of your 3 examples and I will teach you why it is piss poor. Choose the one that you think best exemplifies how our government has taken away our rights.