Palestine Today

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The conquest of territory by force is illegal.

You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.:290968001256257790-final:

Answer my question old man
There is no legal requirement for two states.

Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.

I can. He wants an eventual Palestinian majority in Israel annexation to “ Palestine” Did you read his prior post? There is no LEGAL reason why there should even be two Ststes
 
For all your anti Israel bitching. What is your solution?
Enforce international law.

Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
The conquest of territory by force is illegal.

You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.:290968001256257790-final:
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

There is no legal requirement for two states.

Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?
 
Enforce international law.

Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
The conquest of territory by force is illegal.

You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.:290968001256257790-final:
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

Do you want one state or two. Simple question. Answer it.
The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
That's right, the UN cannot make law.
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is an interesting quest...

The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?
(COMMENT)

It seems that on agreement of the UN General Assembly, under Chapter XII, UN Charter.

The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down (all rights and title whatsoever) from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.

UN Charter - Chapter XII said:
Article 77
1 The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:

a. territories now held under mandate;

b. territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and

c. territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.

2 It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.

Article 78
The trusteeship system shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.

Jordan is an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, independent Kingdom 1946, and UN Member.
Israel became an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, 1948, independent state and UN Member.

I do not believe that the US foresaw the fiasco that the territories that were non-self-governing territories.
The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are Article 77a, former Mandate Territories, 1948. However, these entities are not members of the UN. As of 2005, the Gaza Strip became self-governing (such as that mess of criminals are) when the Israelis unilaterially withdrew.

Most Respectfully,
R​
The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down (all rights and title whatsoever) from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.
 
I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.

Turkey held the territory. Turkey unconditionally ceded the territory. That would make the territory terra nullius (territory under no sovereignty).
 
Be more specific. Do you want a one state solution? Yes or no. International law is what the US says it is.
The conquest of territory by force is illegal.

You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.:290968001256257790-final:
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
That's right, the UN cannot make law.

Good! Then we can stop reading your posts about “ International Law” and Israel’s abiding by them.
Wait.... If there is no such thing as “ International Law” then you should be condemning the PLO’s position that the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall ! Just proves what a Hypocrite you are
 
The conquest of territory by force is illegal.

You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.:290968001256257790-final:
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
That's right, the UN cannot make law.

Good! Then we can stop reading your posts about “ International Law” and Israel’s abiding by them.
Wait.... If there is no such thing as “ International Law” then you should be condemning the PLO’s position that the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall ! Just proves what a Hypocrite you are
If there is no such thing as “ International Law”
I didn't say that.
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is an interesting quest...

The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?
(COMMENT)

It seems that on agreement of the UN General Assembly, under Chapter XII, UN Charter.

The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down (all rights and title whatsoever) from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.

UN Charter - Chapter XII said:
Article 77
1 The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:

a. territories now held under mandate;

b. territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and

c. territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.

2 It will be a matter for subsequent agreement as to which territories in the foregoing categories will be brought under the trusteeship system and upon what terms.

Article 78
The trusteeship system shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality.

Jordan is an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, independent Kingdom 1946, and UN Member.
Israel became an Article 78 former Mandate Territory, 1948, independent state and UN Member.

I do not believe that the US foresaw the fiasco that the territories that were non-self-governing territories.
The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are Article 77a, former Mandate Territories, 1948. However, these entities are not members of the UN. As of 2005, the Gaza Strip became self-governing (such as that mess of criminals are) when the Israelis unilaterially withdrew.

Most Respectfully,
R​
The Answer is YES to the question of authority, having been handed down (all rights and title whatsoever) from Artilce16 of the Treaty of Lausanne.
I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.

The UN never gave away any land.
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

The two state "solution" has been on the table since 1937. Eighty years later we still don't have it. It must not be a good idea.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
 
You bumped your head too hard on the prayer mat, right?

There’s an inherent right to resist Islamic terrorism. Resistance will continue.
Has nothing to do with the conquest of territory.:290968001256257790-final:
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

The U. N, did not have the authority? Then they have no right to make Laws ( International Law) or try to enforce them. Keep posting
That's right, the UN cannot make law.

Good! Then we can stop reading your posts about “ International Law” and Israel’s abiding by them.
Wait.... If there is no such thing as “ International Law” then you should be condemning the PLO’s position that the Israelis have no rights to the Western Wall ! Just proves what a Hypocrite you are
If there is no such thing as “ International Law”
I didn't say that.

UN is antisemriic and useless. Watch Hotel Rwanda. Don’t care what they say or think.
 
I believe you are incorrect. The League of Nations had no territory. The Mandate had no territory. The UN had no territory. You cannot give away all or part of a territory that is not yours.

Turkey held the territory. Turkey unconditionally ceded the territory. That would make the territory terra nullius (territory under no sovereignty).
The territories went directly to the successor states. There was no middle man.
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.

So I answered you now Answer me. Man up.
 
The territories went directly to the successor states. There was no middle man.

Um. Sure. You got a link to that? The only way to pretend that is true is to try to pretend that the whole, you know, MANDATE thing never happened. And that the Treaty of Lausanne doesn't actually say what the Treaty actually says.

Turkey ceded the land unconditionally. It did not cede it to other sovereign entities. Why? Because at the time (1924) there WERE NONE. That makes the land terra nullius. By definition. You can't cede territory to entities which do not exist. There is no way around that. The status of the territory changed from terra nullius to sovereign as each territory gained sovereignty through achieving a set of standards, declaration and recognition. (Which Arab Palestine has yet to achieve.)
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.

No reason to believe that.
 
Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.

Please clarify what you mean here. You mean that most Palestinians think they have a State? That the reason the two state solution is dead is because its been achieved?
 
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.
Very few Palestinians are saying that anymore.

So I answered you now Answer me. Man up.

He won’t. He wants Israel to be annexed to “ Palestine “
 
RE: Palestine Today
※→ AzogtheDefiler, P F Tinmore, et al,

By the admission of may Arab Palestinians like our friend "P F Tinmore," the two-state recommendation is either unreliable as a viable solution that will stand on its merits --- or --- unacceptable because the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."

This leads us only to the conclusion that the Arab Palestinians would rather NOT have an economically sound and progressive nation in a peaceful environment if they have to live in peace with Jewish neighbors.

Are you going to answer me or not?

A) One State

B) Two State

What do you want?!?!?!?!?!?
(COMMENT)

The idea of an Arab Palestinian Acceptable → "One State Solution" is based on the premise that the merger would ultimately result in an Arab Palestinian majority having control of the IDF and → that could then legally dismantle the Jewish National Home in favor of an Arab State. This would first start with the Arab Palestinian Refugees placing such a financial and social welfare burden on the Israeli economy as to collapse the most successful state in the entire region; leaving an empty husk in place of was once the 18th most human developed nation in the world. (Death by a thousand cuts.)

Most Respectfully,
R
the "Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them."
The UN had the authority to divide a country?

Link?

You still have not answered the question. WOW!!!

Victors tell history. I have told you this 1000x. You obviously cannot read. You're also a coward.
You have not answered mine.

BTW, what problem is the two state solution trying to resolve?

The problem of Palestinians whining about not having a country of their own.

They could have had won before 1967
 
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