Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Paragraph 26 The UN Committee urges Israel to put an end to all killings and injuring of children and comply with her obligations under intl law in targeting lawfully in military operations complying with rules of Proportionality and Distinction, to investigate crimes and punish those responsible, and to compensate victims. The Committee urges Israel to : prevent further incidences of the use of excessive force in the use of live ammunition (there is a reference to another UN Report here, A/HRC/19/20 para 52, 2011); condemn violence of settlers and clearly impart it will not be tolerated and take steps to ensure public order and prevent further violence and hold those responsible for violence accountable; cease construction of the Wall and fully lift the Gaza Blockade and allow all necessary construction material into Gaza so the families can rebuild destroyed homes and the civilian infrastructure Israel destroyed can be rebuilt. The UN Committee states this is necessary to insure respect for childrens right to housing and education and health and water and sanitation as recommended in another report, CERD/C/ISR/Co 14-16 para. 26, 2012. The UN Committee further states these steps would place Israel in compliance with her very own Israels Manual on the Laws of War (1998) that prohibits the conduct of a scorched earth policy "with a view to inflicting starvation or suffering on the civilian population. ". Rights of Child Convention/Second to fourth periodic reports of Israel - Cttee on Rights of Child - Concluding observations (advance unedited version) (14 June 2013)

 

[Kondor3]

Israeli children throw rocks also. When they're arrested, they are treated very differently from Palestinian children.

Israeli (Jewish) children throw rocks at the IDF and their police? Maybe. Once in a blue-moon, on alternating Tuesdays, when our mothers are wearing green dresses or something. Rare, at best. And you are neglecting the 'wraparound' effect (their environment, their motivation, their brainwashing-indoctrination, the scale of the rock-throwing, and their potential for knowledge of terrorist activities). All of that spells 'different treatment' within the domain of common sense.

 

[Coyote]

Settler children throw rocks at Palestinians and it's not a rare phenomenum.

I suppose your "domain of common sense" is little more than a double judicial standard designed to support abusing Palestinian children

 

[Kondor3]

Settler children throw rocks at Palestinians and it's not a rare phenomenum.

I suppose your "domain of common sense" is little more than a double judicial standard designed to support abusing Palestinian children

Oh, puh-leeze, Coyote...

On the one hand, we have youths taken into custody for throwing rocks at the Army and the Police...

On the other hand, you're talking about the kids of one faction throwing rocks at the other faction?

I know you can see the difference between attacking Authority and kids' gang-fights (or even throwing rocks at adults)...

It is only a question of whether or not you will acknowledge the difference and what that difference means in the treatment of youths taken into custody...

And, to further complicate matters, should we ask whether the Palestinians who are the targets of Israeli youth rock-throwing are innocent themselves?

Is it always Israeli youths who throw rocks at Palestinians first?

Or do Palestinians sometimes start the rock-throwing themselves?

I mean, after all, Palestinians - especially their youths - have ALREADY been brainwashed and trained to throw rocks at Israeli ADULTS, right?

Right down to their Television and Radio shows which, disgustingly, extol the virtues of Martyrdom and the Killing of Jews - brainwashing directed at their young, malleable minds and spirits - yes?

Somehow, I seriously doubt that the Palestinians are always in-the-right, and the wronged or injured party, when it comes to rock-throwing episodes between Palestinians and Israeli youth.

Somehow, I seriously doubt that you believe that, either.

If an Israeli youth (or gang of youths) are caught throwing rocks at Palestinians without good cause, they should be taken into custody, and charged.

But, given that they are not attacking Authority (the Army or Police) and given that they are not brainwashed by their government to attack the Palestinians without provocation and given that they do not have active knowledge of anti-government terrorist activity, their treatment is going to be quite different than the treated meted-out to someone who IS attacking Authority and who IS brainwashed to attack the government and who MAY have knowledge of anti-government terrorism activity.

There is not double-standard at work here... merely a sensible acknowledgment of the differences in environment and motivation and anti-government hostility and potential Intelligence value.

 

[Coyote]

Settler children throw rocks at Palestinians and it's not a rare phenomenum.

I suppose your "domain of common sense" is little more than a double judicial standard designed to support abusing Palestinian children

Oh, puh-leeze, Coyote...

On the one hand, we have youths taken into custody for throwing rocks at the Army and the Police...

On the other hand, you're talking about the kids of one faction throwing rocks at the other faction?

I know you can see the difference between attacking Authority and kids' gang-fights (or even throwing rocks at adults)...

It is only a question of whether or not you will acknowledge the difference and what that difference means in the treatment of youths taken into custody...

And, to further complicate matters, should we ask whether the Palestinians who are the targets of Israeli youth rock-throwing are innocent themselves?

Is it always Israeli youths who throw rocks at Palestinians first?

Or do Palestinians sometimes start the rock-throwing themselves?

I mean, after all, Palestinians - especially their youths - have ALREADY been brainwashed and trained to throw rocks at Israeli ADULTS, right?

Right down to their Television and Radio shows which, disgustingly, extol the virtues of Martyrdom and the Killing of Jews - brainwashing directed at their young, malleable minds and spirits - yes?

Somehow, I seriously doubt that the Palestinians are always in-the-right, and the wronged or injured party, when it comes to rock-throwing episodes between Palestinians and Israeli youth.

Somehow, I seriously doubt that you believe that, either.

If an Israeli youth (or gang of youths) are caught throwing rocks at Palestinians without good cause, they should be taken into custody, and charged.

But, given that they are not attacking Authority (the Army or Police) and given that they are not brainwashed by their government to attack the Palestinians without provocation and given that they do not have active knowledge of anti-government terrorist activity, their treatment is going to be quite different than the treated meted-out to someone who IS attacking Authority and who IS brainwashed to attack the government and who MAY have knowledge of anti-government terrorism activity.

There is not double-standard at work here... merely a sensible acknowledgment of the differences in environment and motivation and anti-government hostility and potential Intelligence value.

The same standard of justice should apply to all ESPECIALLY children

As far as being brainwashed....don't you think those settler children hate the Palestinians? Why else would the adults amongst them be throwing stones at school children?

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Okay, Coyote....

In the last 10 years, how many incidents have there been involving stone-throwing by "Palestinian" children, and how many by Jewish children?

Of those incidents, what statistical data can you provide showing a disparity of treatment?

Are factors such as size of the rocks, who or what (i.e. moving cars) were thrown at, and age of the perpetrators relevant to the manner in which Israel has responded?

Please cite your sources.

Thank you.

 

[Kondor3]

"...The same standard of justice should apply to all ESPECIALLY children"

If you do not see the difference between frequent crowd attacks upon Authority and settler or street-gang attacks upon individuals, and if you cannot see the difference between a youth who has no knowledge of anti-government terrorism activity and a youth who MAY have knowledge of anti-government terrorism activity, then I cannot be of further help to you, in making such distinctions, or in explaining why different standards of treatment are applied, attributable to differences in Motivation-of and Targeting-by the rock-throwers.

"...As far as being brainwashed....don't you think those settler children hate the Palestinians? Why else would the adults amongst them be throwing stones at school children?"

Oh, I have no illusions that Israeli settlers oftentimes come to hate their Palestinian neighbors nor that nor do I harbor illusions that such hate does not sometimes manifest itself as rock-throwing and other hateful and unneighborly actions, nor do I attempt to peddle such illusions, here or elsewhere. Heck, there are usually at least a couple of hundred incidents per year involving settlers, some their fault, some the fault of the Palestinians.

But that is a 'natural' outcome of stress on the Settlement Frontier - rightly or wrongly - and is NOT an intentional, organized, coordinated, scripted government-sponsored hate campaign directed against the Palestinians, translated into television and radio shows designed to brainwash the children as to the evils of their opposites and the righteousness and Godliness and merits of harming them and dying for The Cause.

Don't make me drag-out the obvious (video-clips of Palestinian children's TV programming) because we both know that will prove the point and highlight the differences far better than any bantering between you and I on that sidebar subject.

 

[Coyote]

Okay, Coyote....

In the last 10 years, how many incidents have there been involving stone-throwing by "Palestinian" children, and how many by Jewish children?

What difference does that make in regards to standards of justice?

Of those incidents, what statistical data can you provide showing a disparity of treatment?

Are factors such as size of the rocks, who or what (i.e. moving cars) were thrown at, and age of the perpetrators relevant to the manner in which Israel has responded?

Please cite your sources.

Thank you.

I'm not going to waste my time playing this game HB67. When I provide data and sourcese, you condemn them and claim "we have nothing to discuss". It's a waste of time for me.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You are under no obligation to respond, Coyote. Of course, absent a response, I'm sure you'll understand that I won't put much stock in your "Israeli children throw rocks too" argument.

 

[Coyote]

"...The same standard of justice should apply to all ESPECIALLY children"

If you do not see the difference between crowd attacks upon Authority and settler or street-gang attacks upon individuals, and if you cannot see the difference between a youth who has no knowledge of anti-government terrorism activity and a youth who MAY have knowledge of anti-government terrorism activity, then I cannot be of further help to you, in making such distinctions.

When it comes to CHILDREN - they should not be treated as adults. They should not be forceably taken, denied access to their parents or legal help, forced to sign confessions in a language that isn't their own. At the very least they should have access to the same legal protections as Jewish children.

"...As far as being brainwashed....don't you think those settler children hate the Palestinians? Why else would the adults amongst them be throwing stones at school children?"

Oh, I have no illusions that Israeli settlers oftentimes come to hate their Palestinian neighbors nor that nor do I harbor illusions that such hate does not sometimes manifest itself as rock-throwing and other hateful and unneighborly actions, nor do I attempt to peddle such illusions, here or elsewhere.

But that is a 'natural' outcome of stress on the Settlement Frontier - rightly or wrongly - and is NOT an intentional, organized, coordinated, scripted government-sponsored hate campaign directed against the Palestinians, translated into television and radio shows designed to brainwash the children as to the evils of their opposites.

You don't think a good bit of the Palestinian children throwing stones is a "'natural' outcome of stress on the Settlement Frontier"? You categorize it all as a brainwashed behavior? When you broadbrush it like that - what is there to discuss?

Don't make me drag-out the obvious (video-clips of Palestinian children's TV programming) because we both know that will prove the point and highlight the differences far better than any bantering between you and I on that sidebar subject.

They prove no point - they don't excuse the differing standards of justice for children.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You have not proven that a "differing standard of justice" exists. All you've given us is the unfounded accusations that have been made against Israel, devoid of any context or any comparator.

 

[Coyote]

You are under no obligation to respond, Coyote. Of course, absent a response, I'm sure you'll understand that I won't put much stock in your "Israeli children throw rocks too" argument.

That is fine with me HB67, you have a habit of demanding sources and then ignoring them whilst providing little in return. I seriously doubt you would put much stock in any of my arguments so nothing wasted for either of us

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You are under no obligation to respond, Coyote. Of course, absent a response, I'm sure you'll understand that I won't put much stock in your "Israeli children throw rocks too" argument.

That is fine with me HB67, you have a habit of demanding sources and then ignoring them whilst providing little in return. I seriously doubt you would put much stock in any of my arguments so nothing wasted for either of us

I'm glad you find the defamation of an entire nation to be something to smile about.

 

[Coyote]

You have not proven that a "differing standard of justice" exists. All you've given us is the unfounded accusations that have been made against Israel, devoid of any context or any comparator.

Those accusations have been made and backed up in UN, UNICEF and human rights reports. Why should I repeat what has already been said and categorically denounced as "unfounded" hate mongering? You will not accept any of the sources nor address any of the points made in them.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Okay, Coyote....

In the last 10 years, how many incidents have there been involving stone-throwing by "Palestinian" children, and how many by Jewish children?

What difference does that make in regards to standards of justice?

Of those incidents, what statistical data can you provide showing a disparity of treatment?

Are factors such as size of the rocks, who or what (i.e. moving cars) were thrown at, and age of the perpetrators relevant to the manner in which Israel has responded?

Please cite your sources.

Thank you.

I'm not going to waste my time playing this game HB67. When I provide data and sourcese, you condemn them and claim "we have nothing to discuss". It's a waste of time for me.

I won't ignore your sources. Can you show any?

 

[Coyote]

You are under no obligation to respond, Coyote. Of course, absent a response, I'm sure you'll understand that I won't put much stock in your "Israeli children throw rocks too" argument.

That is fine with me HB67, you have a habit of demanding sources and then ignoring them whilst providing little in return. I seriously doubt you would put much stock in any of my arguments so nothing wasted for either of us

I'm glad you find the defamation of an entire nation to be something to smile about.

What hyperbole.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You have not proven that a "differing standard of justice" exists. All you've given us is the unfounded accusations that have been made against Israel, devoid of any context or any comparator.

Those accusations have been made and backed up in UN, UNICEF and human rights reports. Why should I repeat what has already been said and categorically denounced as "unfounded" hate mongering? You will not accept any of the sources nor address any of the points made in them.

No, the accusations are not "backed up" in any report. Rather, those reports merely repeat the unfounded accusations made by "Palestinians."

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the "Palestinians" routinely lie and exaggerate in an effort to make Israel look like a bully and to make themselves look like an innocent victim. There are countless examples of this, including doctored and staged photographs.

So, no... you have not provided a credible "source" of anything. And, to make matters worse, you make categorical assertions (i.e. "Israeli children throw rocks too") and then provide NOTHING to back up your statements.

 

[jodylee]

I believe whoever this has to do with should check it up and bring out their results

you mean, you wont comment until the Israeli truth machine has found a way round it with semantics and lies. Israeli's are WORSE than Nazi's

 

[Coyote]

Okay, Coyote....

In the last 10 years, how many incidents have there been involving stone-throwing by "Palestinian" children, and how many by Jewish children?

What difference does that make in regards to standards of justice?

Of those incidents, what statistical data can you provide showing a disparity of treatment?

Are factors such as size of the rocks, who or what (i.e. moving cars) were thrown at, and age of the perpetrators relevant to the manner in which Israel has responded?

Please cite your sources.

Thank you.

I'm not going to waste my time playing this game HB67. When I provide data and sourcese, you condemn them and claim "we have nothing to discuss". It's a waste of time for me.

I won't ignore your sources. Can you show any?

In response to your specific questions:

Of those incidents, what statistical data can you provide showing a disparity of treatment?

I don't have specific statistical data - but general accounts such as news articles etc. I'm not even sure such data is openly available.

What I have for example, is this Mass arrest of Palestinian children on their way to school in Hebron ? at least 5 under the age of criminal responsibility | B'Tselem which specifically notes that there are different standards at play:

The Israeli Youth Law requires that a parent or adult be present during the interrogation of child suspects. The law does not formally apply to Palestinians in the occupied territories, who are subject to Israeli military law, but the military court has recommended that the relevant provisions be taken into account in all dealings with Palestinian children.

Are factors such as size of the rocks, who or what (i.e. moving cars) were thrown at, and age of the perpetrators relevant to the manner in which Israel has responded?

There is no specific information I can find that answers that.

 

[Coyote]

I believe whoever this has to do with should check it up and bring out their results

you mean, you wont comment until the Israeli truth machine has found a way round it with semantics and lies. Israeli's are WORSE than Nazi's

No, I think she is saying it needs to be investigated.