Palestinians and Jews are genetically the same people

[irosie91]

Everyone realizes that there is violence in every group under the sun, but the big question here is why people try to deny that the biggest threat in the world today is violence committed by Muslims.

In other words, the big question is why people do not blank out the stories that fill our newspapers, and rely on knee-jerk preconceptions about the world.

Put it this way - which conflict has cost the most human lives in the past 50 years?

How many times have you posted about it?

the conflict between the HUMAN WHITE BLOOD CELL-----
and the HIV virus.

In the course of history----the most deadly programs have come out
a single specific kind of ideology------the TOTALITARIAN UTOPIAN
IDEOLOGY nazism is a good well known example of
TOTALITARIAN UTOPIANISM Christianity was at one time bent
on TOTALITARIAN ENFORCEMENT OF "SALVATION" an IDEA
that grew out of PAX ROMANA In fact PAX ROMANA ->>
HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE>> NAZISM is actually something
like a 2500 year continuim that came to a banging end
when ROMEs POPE JOHN XXXIII decided to repudiate it.
COMMUNISM is another--it faded out------and for the past 1400
years we have had ------DAR AL ISLAM -------
1400 years and COUNTING

 

[Saigon]

Rosie -

The most expensive conflict since WWII (in terms of human life) is the Congolese Civil Wars, which cost 3.85 million lives.

The conflict involved nine countries directly, and was typified by the use of child soldiers.

Virtually all of the armies involved were nominally Christian.

Hence I do not entirely agree with this statement from Hoss:

the biggest threat in the world today is violence committed by Muslims.

not because I wish to downplay the violence in places like Darfur or Somalia, but because I do not think Hoss is sufficiently aware of other conflicts to be sure what the "biggest" threats are.

 

[Saigon]

There are many many people who INSIST that lots of people claim
"ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD" or "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS"
even some people who are so desperate that they insist
that even if people do not express this idea the ''BELIEVIE'''''' it

I agree with your basic point, but several posters here routinely post "Muslims are terrorists" etc without the use of an article or adjective that would indicate whether they mean 'all' Muslims, or 'some' Muslims.

 

[irosie91]

There are many many people who INSIST that lots of people claim
"ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD" or "ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS"
even some people who are so desperate that they insist
that even if people do not express this idea the ''BELIEVIE'''''' it

I agree with your basic point, but several posters here routinely post "Muslims are terrorists" etc without the use of an article or adjective that would indicate whether they mean 'all' Muslims, or 'some' Muslims.

so a bit of imprecision in writing leads you to MASSIVE SWEEPING ---
AND UTTERLY IDIOTIC ASSERTIONS. ------fascinating-----as fascinating
as your vulgar and shallow minded response to my informing you that
people who spent a large part of their lives attending to victims of crime
in inner city hosptals -----tend to know the INTIMATE details
of crimes that take place in those cities

 

[Indofred]

So sit with your mates, Fred, while we read the Internet.

Seventy-Two Percent of Indonesian Muslims Favor Shariah Law: Pew Forum - The Jakarta Globe

Despite being touted as the Muslim world’s largest democracy, a new survey released by the Pew Research Center on Tuesday revealed that 72 percent of Indonesia’s Muslim population would favor an Islamic legal code as the “official law of the land” if given the option.

Wow, Indonesia is far more radical than I thought.....or maybe not.

Seven Out of Every Ten Muslims in Indonesia Want Shariah ? Really? - The Jakarta Globe

Our first concern regarding the Pew survey has to do with the framing of the question in section Q79a: “Do you favor or oppose making Shariah law, or Islamic law, the official law of the land in our country?” Presenting only two options, “favor” or “oppose,” to the respondents (who are relatively strong believers in Islam) clearly tends to lead the respondents to choose a particular answer.

Moreover, this is unusual since the common practice is to offer a range of choices, e.g. from very supportive to neutral to very opposed

Yes, the story went out in many of the right wing, I hate mussie, sites but no one bothered to look at the truth behind it.

One question, deliberately phrased to get the answer they wanted, and Indonesian Muslims are suddenly radical nut jobs, intent on stoning gays.

Yes, you can look at the internet all you like but, unless you use your brain instead of finding the things you want to find, you may as well look in an unflushed toilet as you find exactly the same thing in both.

 

[Hossfly]

So sit with your mates, Fred, while we read the Internet.

Seventy-Two Percent of Indonesian Muslims Favor Shariah Law: Pew Forum - The Jakarta Globe

Despite being touted as the Muslim world’s largest democracy, a new survey released by the Pew Research Center on Tuesday revealed that 72 percent of Indonesia’s Muslim population would favor an Islamic legal code as the “official law of the land” if given the option.

Wow, Indonesia is far more radical than I thought.....or maybe not.

Seven Out of Every Ten Muslims in Indonesia Want Shariah ? Really? - The Jakarta Globe

Our first concern regarding the Pew survey has to do with the framing of the question in section Q79a: “Do you favor or oppose making Shariah law, or Islamic law, the official law of the land in our country?” Presenting only two options, “favor” or “oppose,” to the respondents (who are relatively strong believers in Islam) clearly tends to lead the respondents to choose a particular answer.

Moreover, this is unusual since the common practice is to offer a range of choices, e.g. from very supportive to neutral to very opposed

Yes, the story went out in many of the right wing, I hate mussie, sites but no one bothered to look at the truth behind it.

One question, deliberately phrased to get the answer they wanted, and Indonesian Muslims are suddenly radical nut jobs, intent on stoning gays.

Yes, you can look at the internet all you like but, unless you use your brain instead of finding the things you want to find, you may as well look in an unflushed toilet as you find exactly the same thing in both.

Why don't you tell us, Fred, how wonderful the Ahmadis are treated in Indonesia? Surely you can find some article in your local newspaper that you can pull up for us written by an Ahmadi saying how great they are treated by the Sunnis. If you can't find one, perhaps there is one written by a Christian saying how tolerant the Sunnis are to them that their churches are never attacked and at times destroyed. And for Frau Sherri's benefit, you can tell her how great the Shiites are treated that they feel that they are living in the best area in the world.

 

[Hossfly]

Everyone realizes that there is violence in every group under the sun, but the big question here is why people try to deny that the biggest threat in the world today is violence committed by Muslims.

In other words, the big question is why people do not blank out the stories that fill our newspapers, and rely on knee-jerk preconceptions about the world.

Put it this way - which conflict has cost the most human lives in the past 50 years?

How many times have you posted about it?

Actually, the big question here, Saigon, since you seem to be having a problem with articles brought up about what is happening in Indonesia, is why you have been so silent and have no criticism about the humongous amount of posts which had claimed the IDF or Zionists are baby killers or that Israel really doesn't exist. Maybe you like to see posts like that so you keep your mouth shut. Anyhow, if the people in England see an article like the following in their newspaper, are they having knee-jerk preconceptions of those their country has allowed in and who can't seem to leave their animosities that they have for each other back in their old home country?

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3497/muslims_clash_on_london_streets_

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

Why do you demand standards of Indonesia you would never demand of the US?

You do realise that a country of 283 milliion people and a thousand islands is likely to have a little dirty laundry, right?

Would you like to tell us how well Native American Indians are treated in the US?

Do they have National Language status? Is their religion respected at the level of courts & parliaments?

 

[Saigon]

Hoss -

I don't see anyone denying that there is violence and prejudice in Indonesia, and I have mentioned a couple of examples myself, such as Ambon.

Fred has been very open the issues within Indonesia.

I have no idea what you are looking for here - prostations of shame?

For all its many faults, I think Indonesia is one of the greatest societies on earth, and I'd be proud to call it home. I'd say the same about Israel, actually.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Hossfly -

Why do you demand standards of Indonesia you would never demand of the US?

You do realise that a country of 283 milliion people and a thousand islands is likely to have a little dirty laundry, right?

Would you like to tell us how well Native American Indians are treated in the US?

Do they have National Language status? Is their religion respected at the level of courts & parliaments?

Native Americans have been reduced from 500 tribes living across America, to only about two million individuals at the most, made to live in reservations. (Admittedly, they have the right to move out.) Alcoholism is a big problem for them. In recent times, casinos have been established at some of these reservations, as well as settlement payments from the government, to assuage American guilt. I would suggest that Mr. Tinmore in particular, because of his hypocricy, move back to Europe to where his ancestors came from. Only then will he have the right to criticize Israel.

 

[irosie91]

QUOTE OF THE DAY---saigon (who claims he is a jounalist)

"I have no idea what you are looking for here -
PROSTATIONS of shame"?

the last time I heard the word "prostation"-----
it was a dramatized play----the clown figure
which existed for comic relief announced
regarding the woman who had murdered
her husband


"SHE IS PROSTATE WITH GRIEF"

 

[irosie91]

Hoss -

I don't see anyone denying that there is violence and prejudice in Indonesia, and I have mentioned a couple of examples myself, such as Ambon.

Fred has been very open the issues within Indonesia.

I have no idea what you are looking for here - prostations of shame?

For all its many faults, I think Indonesia is one of the greatest societies on earth, and I'd be proud to call it home. I'd say the same about Israel, actually.

The violence in Indonesia against christians and hindus
is intitutional ---and countenanced as an aspect of ANY
shariah influenced society Violence against non-muslims--
legal oppression of non muslims----is always simply a more
or less---over time and place ---feature of muslim societies
Islam is the DECLARED **SUPERIOR** creed in Indonesia
just as it is the declared superior creed in saudi arabia and
iran------and even in egypt -----and will be in lebanon and
gaza the other "legal religions" being declared
inferior are always, at the very least----in danger----
no war is necessary to bring violence down on the inferiors
who end up depending on the need for the services and
the now and then goodwill of the superiors----face facts
saigon. I am sure it is obvious to you that there was
no oppression of blacks in the south USA----during the
PLANTATION ERA----as proven by the fact that scarlett
loved mammy

 

[Hossfly]

Why the girls defend Indofred.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1cjaheraq8]Seven Little Girls (Sitting in the Back Seat) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Hossfly]

Hoss -

I don't see anyone denying that there is violence and prejudice in Indonesia, and I have mentioned a couple of examples myself, such as Ambon.

Fred has been very open the issues within Indonesia.

I have no idea what you are looking for here - prostations of shame?

For all its many faults, I think Indonesia is one of the greatest societies on earth, and I'd be proud to call it home. I'd say the same about Israel, actually.

Really, many of the posters have been so open about what is happening in the Muslim world including Indonesia instead of constantly bashing the Jews and Israel??? Funny, but a lot of the readers don't seem to feel that way. As for Fred, he gives his own views and versions about what is happening, but those of other religions living there have their own views and versions also about what is happening to members of their particular religion. So, Saigon, let's see you start criticizing the posts about the IDF and Zionists being baby killers ad nauseam and that Israel has no right to exist or doesn't even exist.

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

Why do you demand standards of Indonesia you would never demand of the US?

You do realise that a country of 283 milliion people and a thousand islands is likely to have a little dirty laundry, right?

Would you like to tell us how well Native American Indians are treated in the US?

Do they have National Language status? Is their religion respected at the level of courts & parliaments?

At this point in the U.S. in the 21st century with so many different ethnicities and religions living here, I don't see people being killed because of their differences. Can you tell us of any instances, for example, of Episcopalians murdering Lutherans, or members of the Russian Orthodox Church murdering Romam Catholics because of differences in their beliefs? Do you see Americans marching on mosques, Hindu or Buddhist temples, etc. and burning them down? Why not research an article about the Ahmadi Muslims only feeling safe in America. Wouldn't it be nice if they felt just as safe in Indonesia? No one is saying that all Americans are perfect when they have to deal with people who are different from them, but given what happens in Muslim countries, I wouldn't even worry about my fellow Americans.

 

[Indofred]

So sit with your mates, Fred, while we read the Internet.

Seventy-Two Percent of Indonesian Muslims Favor Shariah Law: Pew Forum - The Jakarta Globe



Wow, Indonesia is far more radical than I thought.....or maybe not.

Seven Out of Every Ten Muslims in Indonesia Want Shariah ? Really? - The Jakarta Globe

Our first concern regarding the Pew survey has to do with the framing of the question in section Q79a: “Do you favor or oppose making Shariah law, or Islamic law, the official law of the land in our country?” Presenting only two options, “favor” or “oppose,” to the respondents (who are relatively strong believers in Islam) clearly tends to lead the respondents to choose a particular answer.

Moreover, this is unusual since the common practice is to offer a range of choices, e.g. from very supportive to neutral to very opposed

Yes, the story went out in many of the right wing, I hate mussie, sites but no one bothered to look at the truth behind it.

One question, deliberately phrased to get the answer they wanted, and Indonesian Muslims are suddenly radical nut jobs, intent on stoning gays.

Yes, you can look at the internet all you like but, unless you use your brain instead of finding the things you want to find, you may as well look in an unflushed toilet as you find exactly the same thing in both.

Why don't you tell us, Fred, how wonderful the Ahmadis are treated in Indonesia? Surely you can find some article in your local newspaper that you can pull up for us written by an Ahmadi saying how great they are treated by the Sunnis. If you can't find one, perhaps there is one written by a Christian saying how tolerant the Sunnis are to them that their churches are never attacked and at times destroyed. And for Frau Sherri's benefit, you can tell her how great the Shiites are treated that they feel that they are living in the best area in the world.

I do not say otherwise.
The extremists treat them like crap, even to the point of murdering some of them.
There is a serious problem with extremists here but the vast majority want nothing to do with them.

 

[Saigon]

QUOTE OF THE DAY---saigon (who claims he is a jounalist)

"I have no idea what you are looking for here -
PROSTATIONS of shame"?

the last time I heard the word "prostation"-----
it was a dramatized play----the clown figure
which existed for comic relief announced
regarding the woman who had murdered
her husband


"SHE IS PROSTATE WITH GRIEF"

It's always a bit weird for me when English native speakers don't know words like "prostration". Is it not a fairly common word?

Prostrations mean to lay on the ground, generally in grief, exhaustion or shame.

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

Why do you demand standards of Indonesia you would never demand of the US?

You do realise that a country of 283 milliion people and a thousand islands is likely to have a little dirty laundry, right?

Would you like to tell us how well Native American Indians are treated in the US?

Do they have National Language status? Is their religion respected at the level of courts & parliaments?

At this point in the U.S. in the 21st century with so many different ethnicities and religions living here, I don't see people being killed because of their differences. Can you tell us of any instances, for example, of Episcopalians murdering Lutherans, or members of the Russian Orthodox Church murdering Romam Catholics because of differences in their beliefs? Do you see Americans marching on mosques, Hindu or Buddhist temples, etc. and burning them down? Why not research an article about the Ahmadi Muslims only feeling safe in America. Wouldn't it be nice if they felt just as safe in Indonesia? No one is saying that all Americans are perfect when they have to deal with people who are different from them, but given what happens in Muslim countries, I wouldn't even worry about my fellow Americans.

Why would you expect Indonesia to be at the same point in its history that the US in its?

 

[Saigon]

Hoss -

I don't see anyone denying that there is violence and prejudice in Indonesia, and I have mentioned a couple of examples myself, such as Ambon.

Fred has been very open the issues within Indonesia.

I have no idea what you are looking for here - prostations of shame?

For all its many faults, I think Indonesia is one of the greatest societies on earth, and I'd be proud to call it home. I'd say the same about Israel, actually.

Really, many of the posters have been so open about what is happening in the Muslim world including Indonesia instead of constantly bashing the Jews and Israel??? Funny, but a lot of the readers don't seem to feel that way. As for Fred, he gives his own views and versions about what is happening, but those of other religions living there have their own views and versions also about what is happening to members of their particular religion. So, Saigon, let's see you start criticizing the posts about the IDF and Zionists being baby killers ad nauseam and that Israel has no right to exist or doesn't even exist.

Because oppression in one part of the world does not excuse oppression in another part of the world.

I think we need to be open and honest about what is happening in every country - rather than having double standards whereby what happens in India is fine, but what happens in Pakistan is not.

I do agree that some pro-Palestinians hold countries like Lebanon to a lesser standard of civil rights - just as you hold countries like India, Burma, Sri Lanka and the Philippines to a lesser standard because they are not Muslim.

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

Why do you demand standards of Indonesia you would never demand of the US?

You do realise that a country of 283 milliion people and a thousand islands is likely to have a little dirty laundry, right?

Would you like to tell us how well Native American Indians are treated in the US?

Do they have National Language status? Is their religion respected at the level of courts & parliaments?

At this point in the U.S. in the 21st century with so many different ethnicities and religions living here, I don't see people being killed because of their differences. Can you tell us of any instances, for example, of Episcopalians murdering Lutherans, or members of the Russian Orthodox Church murdering Romam Catholics because of differences in their beliefs? Do you see Americans marching on mosques, Hindu or Buddhist temples, etc. and burning them down? Why not research an article about the Ahmadi Muslims only feeling safe in America. Wouldn't it be nice if they felt just as safe in Indonesia? No one is saying that all Americans are perfect when they have to deal with people who are different from them, but given what happens in Muslim countries, I wouldn't even worry about my fellow Americans.

Why would you expect Indonesia to be at the same point in its history that the US in its?

Is the U.S. really that old a nation? I really don't know about immigration to Indonesia, but since you seem so "knowledgeable" about different places, have people from all over the world immigrated and are still immigrating to Indonesia the way people have been immigrating to the U.S. since America was founded. And, is it really that difficult for the people in Indonesia who are majority Sunnis to be more tolerant toward those who don't have the same beliefs as they do? By the way, Saigon, wouldn't you say that most of the Muslim countries are older than America, and yet many Muslims are not tolerant toward those of other religions? Given what is going on in places in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Africa, it is kind of amusing for Saigon to be spending so much time on trying to prove that Indonesian Sunni Muslims as a whole are so tolerant toward others. It almost sounds that instead of being a journalist he actually owns a travel agency in Indonesia and is looking for business.