Pence Believes Jesus 'Speaks' to Him, How About You?

[TNHarley]

I do not believe that God, Jesus or any God talks to people, its them talking to themselves

He doesn't talk to those who don't want to listen to him.

I know many of people that tried to listen but only heard crickets.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Of course Jesus speaks to Christians, if we only listen. What Pence claimed was not unusual among Christians and I have 'heard' Jesus' voice myself at times.

It is not a physical sound, but sort of a memory of something said that you know is not a memory, i.e. it is all in your mind but 'feels' like someone is talking to you in your mind.

I also know it is 90% of the time exactly right and I have learned to trust it to adegree of certainty like that of the advice of a wise old experienced friend. Not absolutely always right, but pretty damned close.

A friend of mine once told me I had learned to trust my gut and I identify my gut with Jesus. Maybe.

How seriously does one take such 'imagination'?

I take it as a source of ideas on what to plan on in the future, for contingencies and things I might enjoy. Sometimes I get insights to problems with social relationships which I really suck at and with complexities I am not sure I understand.

Some famous people had visions and heard voices that they took seriously and followed them to great accomplishment. Joan of Arc, Christopher Columbus, DesCartes, Leibnits and more claim that Jesus or His mother Mary inspired them to embark on their course that led to their accomplishments.

So I feel like I am in good company.

How about you?

Why isn't one of the poll options "yes, I'm a loon like Pence and Jesus just talked to me last Tuesday"

 

[Toro]

You know how they say that Jesus is always in you? Well I hope that He likes burritos for dinner, because that’s what He’s getting!

 

[TNHarley]

You know how they say that Jesus is always in you? Well I hope that He likes burritos for dinner, because that’s what He’s getting!

They say we are all in the father. I wonder if our poop gives him gas?

 

[AZGAL]

What a surprise or should I say revelation that a self proclaimed Christian as Pence is claims to "talk" to Jesus. In Christianity that is called PRAYER. Prayer is found in most religions and expressions of spirituality worldwide. It might seem different from anything an agnostic or atheist experiences that's true. It is belief in things unseen.

 

[OldLady]

I'm sure he was speaking metaphorically. I hope.

 

[EverCurious]

Interesting topic. Too bad one cannot have a serious conversation on this site without all the vitriol.

That said, I've obliquely had this conversation many times in my life as I have a lot of religious friends and family. I do not see the argument I was most commonly given in this thread, which is: God speaks to everyone through introspection.

I think the easiest explanation of the general premise is that there is a genetic blueprint of "morals" that God gave every human, most call it their subconscious. The "choice" people have to make [being religious or not, believing or not] is to accept that this "moral blueprint" as "the right way." So, as the OP expressed, it is not that God speaks "directly" to humans, but rather that He left His words imprinted upon every human - and humans need merely to listen and heed His advice.


I'm an agnostic personally, but I do find the argument quite "reasonable" in the grander scheme of "how things work." As a scientifically minded person I am innately curious about the quasi-psychology of "instincts" and why there is a bit of a different "moral impression" of certain concepts/ideas that spans both millennia and cultures in humans. I fear many will not be able to piece together the overall concept I speak of without my going off topic a little bit so here is a bit of a thought exercise:

If one considers all reactions to be the result of biological/chemical interactions, then there should be a kind of "universal standard," however, that doesn't appear to be the case. For example, while I find it reasonable to argue that the "fight or flight" instinct exists under the scientific idea umbrella of "self-preservation," I can also agree that it's a bit of a logical stretch to say that the "instinct" to protect ones offspring [or "fight" for "survival of the species"] seems to be universally applied - which logically implies it is something "other than" being a pure chemical/biological reaction to stimulus.

That is to say, if "fight or flight" were merely a biological/chemical reaction, then one would logically deduct that every species would generally choose to "flee" rather than protect ones offspring - because offspring can be remade fairly easily, but the [obviously successful/working] "knowledge" that the mother and/or father have acquired [through their very survival, and seemingly expressed as higher levels self-preservation] is less of a "loss" than the "brand new life" so to speak. Instead "fighting" to "protect" ones offspring seems to be more of a "social" concept than an "instinctual" one. The vast majority of species that are more likely to "fight" to "protect" their young are herding/grouping species, whereas the more "solo" species seem less likely to do so. On the other extreme there are also species like flies, spiders, octopus, etc - who actually give their own lives to reproduce (which in a broader sense could be considered on the "instinct" to "reproduce" and far lower "self preservation" side of things.)

Then there are humans... While we are "grouping" or "social" creatures as a whole and one might expect us to follow the "general pattern" of "fighting" (in some way) to "protect" our offspring and "continue the species" and a "general level" of similar "self-preservation" instinct, there are decidedly marked differences between how individual humans deal with these generalized concepts. Probably the easiest example to consider the marked individual differences is abortion, but it also extends in the latter to things like "would you run into a burning building to save your kid(s)?" and broader concepts like "Do you drive better when your kids are in the car or not?" and what to deduce about things like sacrificing children, child abandonment (or adoption,) relying on welfare for survival, choosing to being single or even homosexual, being asexual, killing for "survival" (aka robbery/murder,) and so much more. If the human "choices" on such matters were merely biological/chemical reactions to stimulus, then there shouldn't be such a massive divide in how individuals react, therefore I can only conclude that such things are "social" choices, not "instinctual" ones.

On the general premise outlined above, I would thus argue that the fact that this divide exists within our single species kind of innately implies that humans are "different" in so far as the general idea that ones reactions to such things are "social," or as many might say, "moral" impetus. The bigger question then becomes "why" are such "social" or "moral" reactions/choices seemly present only in humans? Or even broader yet, what biological purpose does the human's ability to consider such "options/choices" have? One can logically argue that this is all merely some kind of social coping mechanism, just as easily as one could logically argue that it is "the voice/will of God."


On a related note: Yes, I do indeed consider the supposed "God" drug, Ketamine; which induces a trance-like state and is reported to cause out of body, near death (into the light,) and even "communing with God" or "seeing God" effects in some 10-20% of humans. My problem with the whole "it's not God its all biological/chemical" argument that is made on this drug's reactions is not just the percentage of folks that experience it, but also the fact that scientists do not really know /why/ Ketamine induces those effects. While one can logically write off the "religious" components to said reactions as merely "social training" or "learned knowledge," one still cannot write off /why/ the aforementioned "social coping mechanism" exists only in humans in the first place (again what is the biological purpose of such a mechanism and why does it "train" different results if it's the same biological/chemical reaction to stimulus?) - and thus, again, one can just as logically argue that it is "the voice/will of God" - aka a "moral blueprint."

 

[JimBowie1958]

I don't believe Jesus speaks to Mike Pence.

Based on what evidence?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jesus speaks to me.

He told me to short the ultra-leveraged volatility ETFs a few weeks ago. He said "My son, the leveraged volatility ETFs are an instrument of Satan, but they are soon to meet their comeuppance. Goeth into the market and short them, and thine bank account will grow quickly.

So I did.

I made a lot of money.

And this is why I'm a Christian.

Umm, it doesnt take the Son of God to suggest that when interest rates look to come up quite a bit over the next year or so.

 

[Rustic]

This thread has become a hatefest on Christians.

John 15
18“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19“If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20“Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21“But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.22“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23“He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24“If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated Me and My Father as well. 25“But they have done this to fulfill the word that is written in their Law, ‘THEY HATED ME WITHOUT A CAUSE.’

Well that really convinced me!!!

The Bible predicted your type would say that...

 

[Rustic]

Anyone who believes the Bible has any truth, or for that matter believes in god. Is in my book an absolute moron.

 

[Rustic]

Nobody cares about a God-Haters opinion.

Oh, but they do.

I live in a Southern city that had an Evangelical Christian coffee shop where I used to stop. It was a nice, friendly place, and I really liked the owner. They had bible study, and prayers, and Christian stuff all over the shelves and the walls. I thought it was an interesting business concept. But I was wrong. It went under. It was replaced by a hip, edgy coffee shop, whose customers have tattoos and piercings, and it is thriving.

The moral of the story? People would rather have a coffee with the devil than with Jesus.

Great story - as Billy Joel once said:

… They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun…

Christians will be the first ones to tell you they are the sinners...

 

[Rustic]

Remember, Bush went to war with Iraq after God told him to.

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

Those that beleive in the Christian faith should not have a problem with believing in prayer and that God has many ways to speak to people. If God spoke to Moses through a burning bush, then he can speak to others by whatever method he chooses.

On the others hand, those that beleive that Christianity is simply a fairy tale will beleive Pence is full of shit.

I is my understanding that all presidents in at least the past 50 years have claimed to be Christians. Are they lying just to get elected, or do they really beleive in God?

Problem is he didn't. Abraham thought God told him to kill his son (according to scripture), that was the culture back then, sacrifice humans, pure children preferably.

I take it you don't believe the Christian Faith.

I do not believe that God, Jesus or any God talks to people, its them talking to themselves.

How many people listen to you… LOL

 

[usmbguest5318]

Baseball star Albert Pujols said it was God`s will that he leave the St. Louis Cardinals for the Los Angeles Angels and $254 million.

Why anyone bothers "blaming" God for their making such a move is beyond me.

"God's will" is what one uses to explain stuff for which there's no apparent other reason for why "it" happened. Seems to me there are 254M reasons for why Pujols left the Cards to go play for the Angels.

 

[gipper]

Baseball star Albert Pujols said it was God`s will that he leave the St. Louis Cardinals for the Los Angeles Angels and $254 million.

Why anyone bothers "blaming" God for their making such a move is beyond me.

"God's will" is what one uses to explain stuff for which there's no apparent other reason for why "it" happened. Seems to me there are 254M reasons for why Pujols left the Cards to go play for the Angels.

What I don't understand are people who blame God for the bad things they have endured or who turn away from God, because bad things have happened to them.

Bad things happen to everyone at some point, in our lives. So if it happens to all, why do some think they are singled out?

 

[Windparadox]

As is your god and godman

`
Did you say godman?
`
`

 

[DrLove]

Christians will be the first ones to tell you they are the sinners...

That must mean Trump isn't a Christian (as if we didn't know that already)

Trump on God: 'I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness'

 

[August West]

Christians will be the first ones to tell you they are the sinners...

That must mean Trump isn't a Christian (as if we didn't know that already)

Trump on God: 'I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness'

Most of those calling themselves Christians truly suck. Even Gandhi said so.
Quote by Mahatma Gandhi : “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christia...”

 

[DrLove]

Most of those calling themselves Christians truly suck. Even Gandhi said so.
Quote by Mahatma Gandhi : “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christia...”

Great quote right there. I do know Christians that I like very much. But not many of those are Republicans and the Trump Christians I know are largely as despicable as their Cheeto Jesus.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

 

[Rustic]

Christians will be the first ones to tell you they are the sinners...

That must mean Trump isn't a Christian (as if we didn't know that already)

Trump on God: 'I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness'

Most of those calling themselves Christians truly suck. Even Gandhi said so.
Quote by Mahatma Gandhi : “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christia...”

Romans 3 10-20
10as it is written,
"there is none righteous, not even one;
11there is none who understands,
there is none who seeks for God;
12all have turned aside, together they have become useless;
there is none who does good,
there is not even one."
13"their throat is an open grave,
with their tongues they keep deceiving,"
"the poison of asps is under their lips";
14"whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness";
15"their feet are swift to shed blood,
16destruction and misery are in their paths,
17and the path of peace they have not known."
18"there is no fear of God before their eyes."
19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.