Politics, MAGA and Evangelicals

[Mac1958]

Folks like to pretend that people like this author is a one-off, but of course he's not. There are many who feel like this has infected their church, such as these two pastors:

 

[Lisa558]

Mac1958

News flash: You are NOT the smartest poster on this forum.

 

[Lesh]

Mac1958

News flash: You are NOT the smartest poster on this forum.

Good Lord

You certainly aren’t.

Pot/Kettle violation

 

[Mac1958]

Mac1958

News flash: You are NOT the smartest poster on this forum.

Did I say I was? No, I sure didn't.

So maybe get me out of your head.

 

[Lisa558]

Did I say I was? No, I sure didn't.

So maybe get me out of your head.

whatever.

 

[Lakhota]

If you're one of the many (like me) who thinks that much of America's Christian population has sold its soul to a con man, here's a really interesting interview -- and one really fascinating point.

Tim Alberta is a devout Christian who has been so troubled by this that he has written a book on the topic. The interview is almost 36 minutes, but there is one moment where I think he makes a very interesting (and even fair, kind of) point. This doesn't absolve the obvious dishonesty and rank hypocrisy that we see, but at least it explains it in a way:

At 11:46: "For a lot of these people who are panicked, who are just stricken with fear about the culture changing so quickly and the country turning on Christianity, and that their faith is in the crosshairs and one day they're going to be persecuted for their faith in this country -- a lot of folks believe that -- they think the barbarians are at the gates, and so they need a barbarian to defend them. To protect them.

"And so, they look at Trump, and the behavior and the rhetoric, and in some sense, because he is not bound by biblical teachings, not bound by biblical virtues, he is free to fight for them in ways that no good Christian ever would".

Holy crap, that's interesting. MAGA followers by and large and not very good at articulating their reasoning, and he does a very good job here. Again, it doesn't explain away many of the behaviors, but at least there is some reasoning here to grab on to.

 

[sartre play]

whatever.

Funny that you jump on his every word. ?MC58

 

[Dragonlady]

If you're one of the many (like me) who thinks that much of America's Christian population has sold its soul to a con man, here's a really interesting interview -- and one really fascinating point.

Tim Alberta is a devout Christian who has been so troubled by this that he has written a book on the topic. The interview is almost 36 minutes, but there is one moment where I think he makes a very interesting (and even fair, kind of) point. This doesn't absolve the obvious dishonesty and rank hypocrisy that we see, but at least it explains it in a way:

At 11:46: "For a lot of these people who are panicked, who are just stricken with fear about the culture changing so quickly and the country turning on Christianity, and that their faith is in the crosshairs and one day they're going to be persecuted for their faith in this country -- a lot of folks believe that -- they think the barbarians are at the gates, and so they need a barbarian to defend them. To protect them.

"And so, they look at Trump, and the behavior and the rhetoric, and in some sense, because he is not bound by biblical teachings, not bound by biblical virtues, he is free to fight for them in ways that no good Christian ever would".

Holy crap, that's interesting. MAGA followers by and large and not very good at articulating their reasoning, and he does a very good job here. Again, it doesn't explain away many of the behaviors, but at least there is some reasoning here to grab on to.

The thing I've noticed that NOBODY mentions, is how much of what evangelicals currently define as "morality" has to do with human sexuality.

Evangelicals are opposed to gay marriage, premarital sex for women, abortion, and divorce. All of the "social and culturally morality" is based on sex. They oppose birth control and abortion which they claim contributes to "immoral behaviour".

These evangelicals aren't demanding "viriginity oaths" from men or boys - only women. They're not trying to ban Viagara on the grounds that it encourages men to behave "immorally". They're not even critical of religious based polygamy.

They even twisted the meaning of the word "adultery" to a man having sex with another man's wife. Whether the man is married or not is irrevant, it's only the woman's marital status that matters.

I consider "morality" to be how you treat others, whether you are honest in your business dealings. If you lie, cheat or steal, you're not a "moral person" at all. So long as the person you're involved with is a consenting adult, and not being exploited by the one party being in a "power position" over the other.

Has it ever occurred to you that if all these people in Washington were "sensible people," that the entire country wouldn't be so totally fucked up?

Has it occurred to you that everytime a DC politician is caught with massive corruption and incompetence yet nothing is ever done to them is because all the other people are massively corrupt and incompetent too?

Has it ever occurred to you that corrupt people like other people around them to be corrupt too? Trump doesn't fit in because he isn't massively corrupt. Honest people tend to blow the whistle on cheaters, liars and thieves.

Has it ever occurred to you that if all of the voters elected representatives based on their qualifications and abilities instead of whether they have an R or a D after their names, you would have people in government working for your votes, instead of pandering to the right wing media, and refusing to compromise with the "enemy".

The ONLY people who believe that "everyone is corrupt" are themselves corrupt, and trying to justify their corrupt behaviour with "everybody's doing it". No they're not. Honest people assume everyone is honest until proven otherwise. Everyone is not corrupt. Most people ARE honest, otherwise society would be breaking down.

"Law and order" is a concept that the majority of the population has to both endorse and practice, otherwise, the social compact is broken. The one that says "everyone is treated equally under the law".

We can see the results of breaking the social compact with the high end shoplifting taking place in the cities. In areas where people have a lack of opportunity, combined with the lack of a living wage, where billionaires openly lie, cheat and steal from their employees and the American people, why should the little guys obey the laws meant to enrich these greedby bastards?

 

[Mac1958]

"Law and order" is a concept that the majority of the population has to both endorse and practice, otherwise, the social compact is broken. The one that says "everyone is treated equally under the law".

We can see the results of breaking the social compact with the high end shoplifting taking place in the cities.

Very, very true.

A free society can't survive without an intact and fully functioning social contract. We need to be able to depend on certain things. One of those things is trust that others will adhere to the contract.

That's falling apart now. I surely don't know if that can be reversed.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

1miseryindex Dec2023 Sibgip00001: {I believe God is punishing the US} “We have become a very materialistic society, We have become a very materialistic society, & have lost the Christian charity we once more or less had. It's all about ME these days. There are good people in the US still, but I speak generally. •¥• I think a good % of people watch porn. No wonder society is falling and can't get up. And Christians would rather go to a Joel Olsteen like "church" than go to the Church Christ Himself established on Earth. •¥¥• I think God is fed up. I can't say I know God extremely well. He surprises me often. But I just keep getting the thought that He is punishing us. •¥¥¥• Don't believe me? Look who controls things in this country. If you find out the details on THAT story... you will be thoroughly sickened, as those of us in the know.” •¥¥¥¥• Sibgip00001

I am a rational theist as so many revolutionary leaders were in the British Colonies in the 1770s. So I don’t speak for any particular Supernatural Being because that is not particularly a correct American thing to do,

See Aug2022 post Vcaeat00181 in thread “Conservative American Evangelicals are taking this country to task“

NotfooledbyW Vcaeat00181: “James Madison shares history on the same highly educated and European Enlightenment level with Jefferson and Adam’s and Washington and Franklin and Paine and Ethan Allen, none of whom expressed their belief that the Hebrew/Christian Bible was Holy or that it was the actual and only the Word of God speaking directly to humankind. •¥• All those highly educated peers of Madison held religious liberty in higher regard than religiosity if we read what they thought about the subject.” .•¥¥• Vcaeat00181

In response to Saint 1miseryindex‘s POST Sibgip00001

America was materialistic from day one. If God were to punish any people it will be to punish his chosen white evangelical nationalists for choosing the antiChrist heathen named Trump because he promised them “power” in Iowa 2015 and they sold him their souls just to taste it, DJT is destroying the Republic before our very eyes and the white evangelicals, with an dome assists from Vladimir Putin, want more. Well at least so far.
Vpmaez00250 to Sibgip00001

 

[NotfooledbyW]

1miseryindex Dec2023 Sibgip00001: {I believe God is punishing the US} Don't believe me? Look who controls things in this country. If you find out the details on THAT story... you will be thoroughly sickened, as those of us in the know.” •¥¥¥¥• Sibgip00001

NotfooledbyW Vpmaez00251said: Who controls things in this country Saint 1Miseryindex?

Vpmaez00251 to Sibgip00001

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

We're learning, on a national basis, how powerful wanting something to be true can be.

They want to believe he's a Christian, so badly. I think the point made by the guy in the OP makes sense. Most of them know he's lying about being Christian, but they've handed to keys to him because they're desperate. They're figure this obscene child is the only thing between them and Satan, so they've made him a deputized Christian. Just for now.

Just destroy everything in sight and we'll start over, something like that.

Like I stated, teabaggers and evangelicals are the two most gullible groups of people on earth.
They think, or wish this guy is a "christian" too.

US preacher asks followers to help buy fourth private jet​

BBC
https://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-44305873
May 30, 2018 — Jesse Duplantis, 68, said God told him to "believe" for his fourth plane, which is set to cost $54m.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Read the source I provided.

"As I said all in coming new administration contact Russia before the new president is sworn in".

Maybe they do, except the Trump regime wasn't incoming, Trump was still a candidate.

Trump campaign's Russia contacts 'grave' threat, Senate ...​

AP News
https://apnews.com › article › ap-top-news-internation...
Aug 18, 2020 — WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump campaign's interactions with Russian intelligence services during the 2016 presidential election posed a “grave” ...

 

[Mac1958]

Like I stated, teabaggers and evangelicals are the two most gullible groups of people on earth.
They think, or wish this guy is a "christian" too.

US preacher asks followers to help buy fourth private jet​

View attachment 888124
BBC
https://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-44305873
May 30, 2018 — Jesse Duplantis, 68, said God told him to "believe" for his fourth plane, which is set to cost $54m.

Pretending/convincing themselves that he's a Christian gives them license to follow him as he destroys what they think is the enemy. No matter what.

 

[Dragonlady]

1miseryindex Dec2023 Sibgip00001: {I believe God is punishing the US} “We have become a very materialistic society, We have become a very materialistic society, & have lost the Christian charity we once more or less had. It's all about ME these days. There are good people in the US still, but I speak generally. •¥• I think a good % of people watch porn. No wonder society is falling and can't get up. And Christians would rather go to a Joel Olsteen like "church" than go to the Church Christ Himself established on Earth. •¥¥• I think God is fed up. I can't say I know God extremely well. He surprises me often. But I just keep getting the thought that He is punishing us. •¥¥¥• Don't believe me? Look who controls things in this country. If you find out the details on THAT story... you will be thoroughly sickened, as those of us in the know.” •¥¥¥¥• Sibgip00001

I am a rational theist as so many revolutionary leaders were in the British Colonies in the 1770s. So I don’t speak for any particular Supernatural Being because that is not particularly a correct American thing to do,

See Aug2022 post Vcaeat00181 in thread “Conservative American Evangelicals are taking this country to task“

NotfooledbyW Vcaeat00181: “James Madison shares history on the same highly educated and European Enlightenment level with Jefferson and Adam’s and Washington and Franklin and Paine and Ethan Allen, none of whom expressed their belief that the Hebrew/Christian Bible was Holy or that it was the actual and only the Word of God speaking directly to humankind. •¥• All those highly educated peers of Madison held religious liberty in higher regard than religiosity if we read what they thought about the subject.” .•¥¥• Vcaeat00181

In response to Saint 1miseryindex‘s POST Sibgip00001

America was materialistic from day one. If God were to punish any people it will be to punish his chosen white evangelical nationalists for choosing the antiChrist heathen named Trump because he promised them “power” in Iowa 2015 and they sold him their souls just to taste it, DJT is destroying the Republic before our very eyes and the white evangelicals, with an dome assists from Vladimir Putin, want more. Well at least so far.
Vpmaez00250 to Sibgip00001

You believe God is punishing the USA but you don't say what for. I seriously doubt it would be because you're materialistic, since you've always been materialistic, and why now?

Between founding a nation on slavery and genocide, killing nearly all of the native Americans and then having a Civil War which killed more than 100,000 Americans, one would think your past was much less Christian or even civilized, in the past.

In fact, the USA, it's policies and practices are far MORE moral today than at any time in it's history. With the exception of your systemic racism, and refusal to treat pregnant women in crisis, along with your treatment of refugees and migrants, you're almost behaving like decent human beings.

You need to be reminded that Sodom and Gomorrah were punished for their refusal to welcome strangers. That was their sin - not sexual perversion. You seem to be one of the gullible who ties "morality" with sex, not with the treatment of others.

The 6 Commandments that God gave us, related in their entirety, on how we should treat other people. No lying, no stealing, no murder, no adultery, no coveting, and Honour your parents. The ONLY sexual prohibition is against adultery - which is married people sleeping with people they're not married to.

Notice how there are no prohibitions on premarital sex, gay sex, or any kind of sex, other than adultery. And yet what is the focus of so many "Christian" sects - controlling people's sexual behaviours. Morality has to do with the 6 Commandments on how we treat others in our daily lives.

The "Christian baker" wouldn't bake a cake for a homosexual marriage - but would bake a cake for liars, adulterers, and thieves. The only "sinner" they wouldn't bake a cake for, is the gay couple. Which is why I refuse to accept the idea that their refusal to bake the cake has anything to do with their faith, and was in complete opposition to Biblical teachings.

The refusal of right wing Americans to provide aid or assistance to refugees, while claiming to be a "Christian" nation, shows the deep moral failing and hypocrisy of the "religious right".

You need to be walking the walk, because nobody believes your lies or your talk of being Christians at all.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Pretending/convincing themselves that he's a Christian gives them license to follow him as he destroys what they think is the enemy. No matter what.

Nearly half of Republicans think God wanted Trump to be ...​

Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › 2019/02/14 › nearl...
Feb 14, 2019 — White House press secretary Sarah Sanders kicked up a bit of dust recently when she told the Christian television network CBN that she ...

 

[Dragonlady]

Who sets the time what limit means? You? As I said all in coming new administration contact Russia before the new president is sworn in.

They do????? Since when????

Why do YOU think that the Republican House and Republican Senate passed a Resolution - 99 to 1 in the Senate, which barred the President from lifting sanctions on Russia without Congressional Consent, prior to Trump being sworn in?

This was the one and only nearly unanimous thing both Houses have passed in my lifetime.

 

[surada]

If you're one of the many (like me) who thinks that much of America's Christian population has sold its soul to a con man, here's a really interesting interview -- and one really fascinating point.

Tim Alberta is a devout Christian who has been so troubled by this that he has written a book on the topic. The interview is almost 36 minutes, but there is one moment where I think he makes a very interesting (and even fair, kind of) point. This doesn't absolve the obvious dishonesty and rank hypocrisy that we see, but at least it explains it in a way:

At 11:46: "For a lot of these people who are panicked, who are just stricken with fear about the culture changing so quickly and the country turning on Christianity, and that their faith is in the crosshairs and one day they're going to be persecuted for their faith in this country -- a lot of folks believe that -- they think the barbarians are at the gates, and so they need a barbarian to defend them. To protect them.

"And so, they look at Trump, and the behavior and the rhetoric, and in some sense, because he is not bound by biblical teachings, not bound by biblical virtues, he is free to fight for them in ways that no good Christian ever would".

Holy crap, that's interesting. MAGA followers by and large and not very good at articulating their reasoning, and he does a very good job here. Again, it doesn't explain away many of the behaviors, but at least there is some reasoning here to grab on to.

Evangelicals don't seem bright or well educated to me.

 

[Mac1958]

Evangelicals don't seem bright or well educated to me.

Well, they base their life and eternity on a faith and "facts" that are provided for them.

 

[Lakhota]

Evangelicals don't seem bright or well educated to me.

True, and they are obviously extremely gullible! I guess they're just waiting for the rapture - or maybe Noah's Ark.