POLL: Does the other side of the issues at least have reasonable points?

[g5000]

As for the Left, I think they have a good point about us needing to do something about gun violence.

It is insane that we are tolerating 15,000 gun homicides every year. Absolutely insane.

I know some on the Left want to grab all guns. And the Right loves posting Beto's bullshit over and over as if that is what everyone on the Left believes. They don't. It's bullshit to imply that is what they all believe. It is viciously and criminally dishonest to imply that.

My thinking on the issue is the same as my thinking on the issue of the opioid crisis. I believe the manufacturers of guns and opioids willfully manufactured more guns and pills than needed to meet America's demand. They knew the excess would spill over into the criminal world and that mass deaths will occur.

All in the neverending pursuit of increased profits. Stockholders murder corporations which don't report regular growth. They will not tolerate even a single quarter of non-growth, never mind losses.

So more and more pills and guns are pushed onto the streets.

It's time to hold them accountable.

 

[g5000]

It makes no sense that two people earning identical incomes are paying radically different amounts of tax. Just because one had kids and bought the right kind of refrigerator and a house.

That's government social engineering. No conservative in their right mind could be for that!

Why do you guys talk about social engineering like this when America was built by social engineering?

No, America was built by entrepreneurs.

Massive government social engineering didn't start until FDR.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Depends on what is the "side"??
Most people I know, whether they are Democrat or Republican want almost identically the same things:

Not necessarily in order...
1) Job Security
2) Wages commensurate to one's abilities and performance.
3) Healthcare coverage that is affordable and fair
4) Opportunities for those that seek them
5) Reasonable prices for goods.

Everything else is basically below these things or white noise.
The media, entertainment industry and Washington politicians have us divided and at war with each other despite we are all much the same.
This is by design and most people are too stuck in stupid to realize it...

 

[IM2]

Pretty straightforward question here. As our political rhetoric becomes more binary and divided, I wonder how many of us believe that the other side of issues AT LEAST make SOME reasonable, understandable points when they argue their side. At least on the major issues confronting us.

Thoughts?
.

One cannot have a “reasonable” discussion about politics with a leftwing lunatic.

Whenever I have those discussions with members of my family that do nothing but listen to CNN and hate President Trump, they can’t ever dispute the facts I lay out, and they make no coherent argument for their side.

They probably dispute everything you say accurately, but we know that you trump supporters do not accept anything but what you choose to believe no matter what the facts show.

 

[HappyJoy]

No offense to Mac at all, but everyone should realize he really is not a moderate, he is just not as far Left as Bernard.

A lot of folks here are intellectually paralyzed by their binary thought processes.

So, if you're not from their tribe, you can only belong to other tribe.

No amount of information can change that kind of thinking.
.

Just another example of how nutters on both ends get defensive & pissy over perfectly benign questions.

This stuff just solidifies my opinion that they know, at some level, how dishonest, tribal & unreasonable they are.

Just asking questions back at you regarding your past actions. What's wrong with that?

What Mac is trying to do is stake out a middle position, but he has no ground to stand on. There is no middle position that makes any sense between killing 60 million unborn babies and NOT killing 60 million unborn babies. I am giving that as an example because abortion is the issue I care most about. Maybe Mac would say, "We should kill 30 million unborn babies."

Let me interject this about Mac to my Con friends, and to the Democrats on here who appear to me to be not my friends, lol.

If we believe Mac to be what he says he is as far as his working life; meaning belonging to the financial sector....then we may not like his take on things as far as the Con side, but at least the man has INTEGRITY!

Call Mac anything you want, disagree with him all you want, but MAC is NOT stupid. He knows the further left the President who is elected is, the larger bath his sector of the economy is going to take, certainly losing him money.

In other words, unlike others on this board, he is putting his money where his mouth is!

Now I disagree with many of his takes, but at least I have respect for him being willing to lose from his decisions, meaning...……….we may think he is wrong, but at least we know he believes what he says, and is willing to suffer for it.

Much appreciated. I just belch out whatever happens to be rattling around in my little brain at the moment.

The difference between me and many here, is that it's not constantly run through an ideological prism.
.

So I've got an ideological prism? That's why I think the way I do? And you don't? You have some special access to the truth that I don't have?

You are very lucky to have this rare access to truth that I don't have.

Yes, he judges you by your ideology just like everyone else on the board does, he's just less honest about it.

 

[Rye Catcher]

Here's a problem, the Stock Market is falling fast. Maybe the solution to panic sales are to close the markets. Had that been ordered by the President, it would have been a proactive reaction to an emotional problem.

Incorrect. The markets have internal regs and triggers and require no gov't intervention. The stupid people who are selling at a loss in this will either buy back in at higher prices or kick themselves for missing this fabulous buying op. You know who is buying? The firms who know their bottom lines and fundamentals are on solid ground are buying their own stock. You know who is losing money? Whoosies and wienies.

Couple of comments to your post. trump's use of the bully pulpit caused (IMO) the Fed to cut rates. trump claims to be the great economist, when the markets began to crash, he could have influenced the powers that be to shut down the markets.

However, let's not forget every sale is a profit for the Brokerage Companies. They're in business to make profits. I've not made any changes to my managed account, and we've lost over $30k in three days; we lost a lot of our investment in FY 2018 in this managed account, but recovered all of it and more until this week. Fortunately we don't panic, and the money in this one account is being there for our kids and grandsons.

I suspect we might take out the money now if that money was our nest egg. Fortunately we have other assets and don't need what we have invested in this one managed account.

 

[MisterBeale]

Never once claimed to be in the middle. Not once. Ever. Never.

Just another one of the fantasies you guys keep hanging on to.
.

You try to claim being moderate all the time................then LABEL EVERYONE in TRIBES.....trying to downplay what the Dems have become.........

You know it.........we know it.......and the people in this country know it............The Desperation in the current Dem debates shows it..............You are now having trouble rigging the election again with the Bern.........Bloomberg has already spent 500 million with no reasonable results....

It's Funny to watch the implosion.

Both parties have imploded. The Left is becoming more socialist, while the Republican party has become the party of trillion dollar deficits, cronyism, porn star mistresses, serial adultery, and corruption.

If you don't address mandatory spending the deficits will continue to grow..................That sure as hell doesn't mean adding what the Dem Candidates are spewing now.......it is the unfunded liabilities that CANNOT BE PAID.........................IT IS IMPOSSIBLE....

We are on a roller coaster ride to hell.....it is only a matter of when...............They will not address it ......and it will cause a Global Reset one day...........when...........whenever the Globalist decide it.

Actually, the solution to deficits is extremely simple. But neither party has the guts to do it. In fact, they work very hard to keep you from seeing the answer because it would destroy their death grip on power.

The solution is to eliminate the annual $1.4 trillion in tax expenditures.

That would level the playing field, eliminate the deficit, create a surplus, enable tax cuts for EVERYONE, and reform campaign spending. All in one go.

Actually the answer might even be simpler than that.

On October 24, 2013, the Kellogg Foundation sent out a press release about a report they had done entitled, “The Business Case for Racial Equity”. This was a study done by the Kellogg Foundation, using information it had studied and assessed from the Center for American Progress, National Urban League Policy Institute, Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies and the U.S. Department of Justice.

“Striving for racial equity – a world where race is no longer a factor in the distribution of opportunity – is a matter of social justice. But moving toward racial equity can generate significant economic returns as well. When people face barriers to achieving their full potential, the loss of talent, creativity, energy, and productivity is a burden not only for those disadvantaged, but for communities, businesses, governments, and the economy as a whole. Initial research on the magnitude of this burden in the United States (U.S.), as highlighted in this brief, reveals impacts in the trillions of dollars in lost earnings, avoidable public expenditures, and lost economic output.”

The Kellogg Foundation and Altarum Institute

I think that we really have to look at other things than what we always do because we don't have to be in such a fiscal mess and cutting tax expenditures does nothing as long as certain issues are not addressed more directly. Because the need for tax expenditures on public assistance will continue increasing as long as certain populations are negatively impacted by policy decisions affecting their personal economics.

I think every State should first, look at Michigan's Proposal A as a way to equalize funding for School, and second, be aware that just because we have equal per/pupil funding, this is not a cure all for the historic wrongs of "red-lining."

That is a great report to read.

Everyone should take a gander.

https://altarum.org/sites/default/f...siness-Case-for-Racial-Equity-Report_2018.PDF

 

[imawhosure]

I have heard that time and time again.............But the amount of coming Liabilities is MASSIVE........

Ending credits and getting out of the Wars would do a lot............Hell just on tax credits alone would be over 200 billion a year...........but that will not stop the coming liabilities..........

Not to mention the interest on the debt which is growing every single year........it will soon overtake the amount we spend on our military.............

Well, the second reform I always advocate, after repealing tax expenditures, is to raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility ages to 70, and index that age to 9 percent of the population going forward.

We are living longer than our ancestors, we should be working longer. Common sense.

5.4 percent of the US population was over 65 when SS was enacted.

9 percent was over 65 percent when Medicare was enacted.

Today, 15 percent are over 65.

That is an unsustainable trend.

Social security is money taken out of our checks. If 15 percent today are over 65, then that 15 percent probably have worked the 40 quarters required to get the money taken out of their checks for social security back.

The amount set aside will not cover the ever increasing percentage of those drawing on the treasury.

A smaller and smaller percentage are paying in while a larger and larger percentage are drawing out.

Something has to give sooner or later.

All who work get social security taken out of their checks. Some people don't live long enough to get social security. It is not possible to have more people drawing out than is put in because you have to work to get the money and the money is taken from your paycheck and is not just something the government hands you.

I did not say more people are drawing out than putting in.

I said the percentage of people drawing out is increasing and the percentage paying in is decreasing.

If putting in ten cents a day worked when the over-65 population was 5.4 percent, that same ten cents a day will not carry the present day 15 percent that is now over 65. Especially since the percentage paying in is shrinking.

Something has to give. Basic math.

G is correct, he is not misleading you. Something has to change, because the amount of people paying per person drawing has dropped dramatically.

If G is being honest also-------------->the plan could NEVER have been solvent for the long term. Even if our wonderful politicians hadn't spent the money on us, the day of reckoning would have been just pushed down the road.

There are many, many, many ways to fix SS. Problem is, to fix it, some group is going to take a bath. That is why politicians don't want to fix it.

But I betcha G and I both agree that our biggest problem is not SS, but rather Medicare. This is a REAL problem coming quickly, and politicians are going to have to do something, like it or not, or the party is over!

No offense to G, but my personal opinion is----------->this is one reason the Democrats want Medicare for all. They can hide the shortfall by folding it into the new program, then raising taxes by telling all the new recipients that if they don't pay, no healthcare!

 

[Mac1958]

So I've got an ideological prism? That's why I think the way I do? And you don't? You have some special access to the truth that I don't have? You are very lucky to have this rare access to truth that I don't have.

Yes. It appears that I'm part of the majority, and have not been infected with a hardcore partisan ideology.

I think of it as some kind of virus, like a mental herpes.
.

 

[Rye Catcher]

A few reasonable points.....But the solutions are nearly always wrong,

Well now, I'm sure(?) that you will be able to explain the problems which are "reasonable points" and explain the solutions which are wrong.

Have at it, odd dude.

The "solutions" floated by you and your authoritarian statist brethren NEVER EVER involve getting The State out of peoples' faces.

Your only tool is gubmint and its use of coercive force, and your only "solution" is to expand the range of it's all-consuming iron fist.

Wrong answer first time, every time.

No it's not always the wrong answer. It was the right answer for Americans up until the civil rights act, then suddenly it's wrong for government to do things.

View attachment 309376

Maybe you need to stop listening to those voices in your head.

I'm sure he cannot resonate which voices you mean, there is a lot of room for echoes between his ears.

 

[Blackrook]

You try to claim being moderate all the time................then LABEL EVERYONE in TRIBES.....trying to downplay what the Dems have become.........

You know it.........we know it.......and the people in this country know it............The Desperation in the current Dem debates shows it..............You are now having trouble rigging the election again with the Bern.........Bloomberg has already spent 500 million with no reasonable results....

It's Funny to watch the implosion.

Both parties have imploded. The Left is becoming more socialist, while the Republican party has become the party of trillion dollar deficits, cronyism, porn star mistresses, serial adultery, and corruption.

If you don't address mandatory spending the deficits will continue to grow..................That sure as hell doesn't mean adding what the Dem Candidates are spewing now.......it is the unfunded liabilities that CANNOT BE PAID.........................IT IS IMPOSSIBLE....

We are on a roller coaster ride to hell.....it is only a matter of when...............They will not address it ......and it will cause a Global Reset one day...........when...........whenever the Globalist decide it.

Actually, the solution to deficits is extremely simple. But neither party has the guts to do it. In fact, they work very hard to keep you from seeing the answer because it would destroy their death grip on power.

The solution is to eliminate the annual $1.4 trillion in tax expenditures.

That would level the playing field, eliminate the deficit, create a surplus, enable tax cuts for EVERYONE, and reform campaign spending. All in one go.

Actually the answer might even be simpler than that.

On October 24, 2013, the Kellogg Foundation sent out a press release about a report they had done entitled, “The Business Case for Racial Equity”. This was a study done by the Kellogg Foundation, using information it had studied and assessed from the Center for American Progress, National Urban League Policy Institute, Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies and the U.S. Department of Justice.

“Striving for racial equity – a world where race is no longer a factor in the distribution of opportunity – is a matter of social justice. But moving toward racial equity can generate significant economic returns as well. When people face barriers to achieving their full potential, the loss of talent, creativity, energy, and productivity is a burden not only for those disadvantaged, but for communities, businesses, governments, and the economy as a whole. Initial research on the magnitude of this burden in the United States (U.S.), as highlighted in this brief, reveals impacts in the trillions of dollars in lost earnings, avoidable public expenditures, and lost economic output.”

The Kellogg Foundation and Altarum Institute

I think that we really have to look at other things than what we always do because we don't have to be in such a fiscal mess and cutting tax expenditures does nothing as long as certain issues are not addressed more directly. Because the need for tax expenditures on public assistance will continue increasing as long as certain populations are negatively impacted by policy decisions affecting their personal economics.

I think every State should first, look at Michigan's Proposal A as a way to equalize funding for School, and second, be aware that just because we have equal per/pupil funding, this is not a cure all for the historic wrongs of "red-lining."

That is a great report to read.

Everyone should take a gander.

https://altarum.org/sites/default/f...siness-Case-for-Racial-Equity-Report_2018.PDF

Attempt to equalize funding for public schools and you will have a voter's rebellion on your hands.

 

[Mac1958]

Pretty straightforward question here. As our political rhetoric becomes more binary and divided, I wonder how many of us believe that the other side of issues AT LEAST make SOME reasonable, understandable points when they argue their side. At least on the major issues confronting us.

Thoughts?
.

Funny question coming from a man who NEVER thinks conservatives have a good point!

Third fantasy this thread.
.

 

[IM2]

It makes no sense that two people earning identical incomes are paying radically different amounts of tax. Just because one had kids and bought the right kind of refrigerator and a house.

That's government social engineering. No conservative in their right mind could be for that!

Why do you guys talk about social engineering like this when America was built by social engineering?

No, America was built by entrepreneurs.

Mass government social engineering didn't start until FDR.

Wrong. It started from the very beginning. I don't expect you to understand how I say that, but maybe you go back and look at Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution as well as the Naturalization Act of 1790 to understand the beginnings of American social engineering.

 

[Oddball]

You try to claim being moderate all the time................then LABEL EVERYONE in TRIBES.....trying to downplay what the Dems have become.........

You know it.........we know it.......and the people in this country know it............The Desperation in the current Dem debates shows it..............You are now having trouble rigging the election again with the Bern.........Bloomberg has already spent 500 million with no reasonable results....

It's Funny to watch the implosion.

Both parties have imploded. The Left is becoming more socialist, while the Republican party has become the party of trillion dollar deficits, cronyism, porn star mistresses, serial adultery, and corruption.

If you don't address mandatory spending the deficits will continue to grow..................That sure as hell doesn't mean adding what the Dem Candidates are spewing now.......it is the unfunded liabilities that CANNOT BE PAID.........................IT IS IMPOSSIBLE....

We are on a roller coaster ride to hell.....it is only a matter of when...............They will not address it ......and it will cause a Global Reset one day...........when...........whenever the Globalist decide it.

Actually, the solution to deficits is extremely simple. But neither party has the guts to do it. In fact, they work very hard to keep you from seeing the answer because it would destroy their death grip on power.

The solution is to eliminate the annual $1.4 trillion in tax expenditures.

That would level the playing field, eliminate the deficit, create a surplus, enable tax cuts for EVERYONE, and reform campaign spending. All in one go.

Actually the answer might even be simpler than that.

On October 24, 2013, the Kellogg Foundation sent out a press release about a report they had done entitled, “The Business Case for Racial Equity”. This was a study done by the Kellogg Foundation, using information it had studied and assessed from the Center for American Progress, National Urban League Policy Institute, Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies and the U.S. Department of Justice.

“Striving for racial equity – a world where race is no longer a factor in the distribution of opportunity – is a matter of social justice. But moving toward racial equity can generate significant economic returns as well. When people face barriers to achieving their full potential, the loss of talent, creativity, energy, and productivity is a burden not only for those disadvantaged, but for communities, businesses, governments, and the economy as a whole. Initial research on the magnitude of this burden in the United States (U.S.), as highlighted in this brief, reveals impacts in the trillions of dollars in lost earnings, avoidable public expenditures, and lost economic output.”

The Kellogg Foundation and Altarum Institute

I think that we really have to look at other things than what we always do because we don't have to be in such a fiscal mess and cutting tax expenditures does nothing as long as certain issues are not addressed more directly. Because the need for tax expenditures on public assistance will continue increasing as long as certain populations are negatively impacted by policy decisions affecting their personal economics.

I think every State should first, look at Michigan's Proposal A as a way to equalize funding for School, and second, be aware that just because we have equal per/pupil funding, this is not a cure all for the historic wrongs of "red-lining."

That is a great report to read.

Everyone should take a gander.

https://altarum.org/sites/default/f...siness-Case-for-Racial-Equity-Report_2018.PDF

Fuck that.....Privatize all schooling.

Alliance for Separation of School and State Home

 

[DrLove]

Just in case you wanna know why nobody takes you leftards seriously:

Another good example.
.

Another example of what..............LOL

That we no longer see Reasoning with the Dems anymore.........given what they have become...............

No.............reasoning with people who weaponized our Gov't against people that disagree with them........the Kav BS show..........Impeachment Joke.............

No Reasoning with them at all..................We HAVE NO REASON TO...............

So if you are gonna play act like you are in the middle.......which you try to say you do..........I suggest you fucking DUCK............We ARE DONE BEING NICE ANYMORE..............

Never once claimed to be in the middle. Not once. Ever. Never.

Just another one of the fantasies you guys keep hanging on to.
.

You try to claim being moderate all the time................then LABEL EVERYONE in TRIBES.....trying to downplay what the Dems have become.........

You know it.........we know it.......and the people in this country know it............The Desperation in the current Dem debates shows it..............You are now having trouble rigging the election again with the Bern.........Bloomberg has already spent 500 million with no reasonable results....

It's Funny to watch the implosion.

Both parties have imploded. The Left is becoming more socialist, while the Republican party has become the party of trillion dollar deficits, cronyism, porn star mistresses, serial adultery, and corruption.

Who are u what gave done with our beloved g5000? Kidding, you’re smart human!

 

[Blackrook]

So I've got an ideological prism? That's why I think the way I do? And you don't? You have some special access to the truth that I don't have? You are very lucky to have this rare access to truth that I don't have.

Yes. It appears that I'm part of the majority, and have not been infected with a hardcore partisan ideology.

I think of it as some kind of virus, like a mental herpes.
.

So I have mental herpes? Are you prepared to prove that?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Pretty straightforward question here. As our political rhetoric becomes more binary and divided, I wonder how many of us believe that the other side of issues AT LEAST make SOME reasonable, understandable points when they argue their side. At least on the major issues confronting us.

Thoughts?
.

Of course they do. It's when they take those reasonable points beyond the point of reason that I turn my back on them.

 

[IM2]

Both parties have imploded. The Left is becoming more socialist, while the Republican party has become the party of trillion dollar deficits, cronyism, porn star mistresses, serial adultery, and corruption.

If you don't address mandatory spending the deficits will continue to grow..................That sure as hell doesn't mean adding what the Dem Candidates are spewing now.......it is the unfunded liabilities that CANNOT BE PAID.........................IT IS IMPOSSIBLE....

We are on a roller coaster ride to hell.....it is only a matter of when...............They will not address it ......and it will cause a Global Reset one day...........when...........whenever the Globalist decide it.

Actually, the solution to deficits is extremely simple. But neither party has the guts to do it. In fact, they work very hard to keep you from seeing the answer because it would destroy their death grip on power.

The solution is to eliminate the annual $1.4 trillion in tax expenditures.

That would level the playing field, eliminate the deficit, create a surplus, enable tax cuts for EVERYONE, and reform campaign spending. All in one go.

Actually the answer might even be simpler than that.

On October 24, 2013, the Kellogg Foundation sent out a press release about a report they had done entitled, “The Business Case for Racial Equity”. This was a study done by the Kellogg Foundation, using information it had studied and assessed from the Center for American Progress, National Urban League Policy Institute, Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies and the U.S. Department of Justice.

“Striving for racial equity – a world where race is no longer a factor in the distribution of opportunity – is a matter of social justice. But moving toward racial equity can generate significant economic returns as well. When people face barriers to achieving their full potential, the loss of talent, creativity, energy, and productivity is a burden not only for those disadvantaged, but for communities, businesses, governments, and the economy as a whole. Initial research on the magnitude of this burden in the United States (U.S.), as highlighted in this brief, reveals impacts in the trillions of dollars in lost earnings, avoidable public expenditures, and lost economic output.”

The Kellogg Foundation and Altarum Institute

I think that we really have to look at other things than what we always do because we don't have to be in such a fiscal mess and cutting tax expenditures does nothing as long as certain issues are not addressed more directly. Because the need for tax expenditures on public assistance will continue increasing as long as certain populations are negatively impacted by policy decisions affecting their personal economics.

I think every State should first, look at Michigan's Proposal A as a way to equalize funding for School, and second, be aware that just because we have equal per/pupil funding, this is not a cure all for the historic wrongs of "red-lining."

That is a great report to read.

Everyone should take a gander.

https://altarum.org/sites/default/f...siness-Case-for-Racial-Equity-Report_2018.PDF

Attempt to equalize funding for public schools and you will have a voter's rebellion on your hands.

No you won't. Why would there be opposition to equal education for all students?

 

[g5000]

Well, the second reform I always advocate, after repealing tax expenditures, is to raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility ages to 70, and index that age to 9 percent of the population going forward.

We are living longer than our ancestors, we should be working longer. Common sense.

5.4 percent of the US population was over 65 when SS was enacted.

9 percent was over 65 percent when Medicare was enacted.

Today, 15 percent are over 65.

That is an unsustainable trend.

Social security is money taken out of our checks. If 15 percent today are over 65, then that 15 percent probably have worked the 40 quarters required to get the money taken out of their checks for social security back.

The amount set aside will not cover the ever increasing percentage of those drawing on the treasury.

A smaller and smaller percentage are paying in while a larger and larger percentage are drawing out.

Something has to give sooner or later.

All who work get social security taken out of their checks. Some people don't live long enough to get social security. It is not possible to have more people drawing out than is put in because you have to work to get the money and the money is taken from your paycheck and is not just something the government hands you.

I did not say more people are drawing out than putting in.

I said the percentage of people drawing out is increasing and the percentage paying in is decreasing.

If putting in ten cents a day worked when the over-65 population was 5.4 percent, that same ten cents a day will not carry the present day 15 percent that is now over 65. Especially since the percentage paying in is shrinking.

Something has to give. Basic math.

G is correct, he is not misleading you. Something has to change, because the amount of people paying per person drawing has dropped dramatically.

If G is being honest also-------------->the plan could NEVER have been solvent for the long term. Even if our wonderful politicians hadn't spent the money on us, the day of reckoning would have been just pushed down the road.

There are many, many, many ways to fix SS. Problem is, to fix it, some group is going to take a bath. That is why politicians don't want to fix it.

But I betcha G and I both agree that our biggest problem is not SS, but rather Medicare. This is a REAL problem coming quickly, and politicians are going to have to do something, like it or not, or the party is over!

No offense to G, but my personal opinion is----------->this is one reason the Democrats want Medicare for all. They can hide the shortfall by folding it into the new program, then raising taxes by telling all the new recipients that if they don't pay, no healthcare!

I agree we need reform, but not just Medicare reform. We need to reform the entire health care system.

I have posted dozens and dozens of times what kind of reforms we need. To boil it down to a single sentence, we should be buying our health insurance the exact same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance.


However, we are going to end up with universal health care because the GOP isn't the slightest bit interested in doing the heavy intellectual lifting it would take to create a free market system that works. The Republicans throw up a lot of smoke to cover their criminally negligent ineptitude by attacking the other side's solutions.

While I am opposed to UHC, I am not a doomsday we-will-become-Venezuela rube. There are a large number of advanced Western countries which have UHC and they have not turned into communist Cuba.

I guess I have resigned myself to the inevitabilty of UHC. And I blame the Republicans and Trump for that. Not Bernie Sanders. Sanders is just the manifestation of America's frustration over our disastrous health care system, in the same way Trump is the manifestation of America's frustration of being robbed blind.

 

[IM2]

Social security is money taken out of our checks. If 15 percent today are over 65, then that 15 percent probably have worked the 40 quarters required to get the money taken out of their checks for social security back.

The amount set aside will not cover the ever increasing percentage of those drawing on the treasury.

A smaller and smaller percentage are paying in while a larger and larger percentage are drawing out.

Something has to give sooner or later.

All who work get social security taken out of their checks. Some people don't live long enough to get social security. It is not possible to have more people drawing out than is put in because you have to work to get the money and the money is taken from your paycheck and is not just something the government hands you.

I did not say more people are drawing out than putting in.

I said the percentage of people drawing out is increasing and the percentage paying in is decreasing.

If putting in ten cents a day worked when the over-65 population was 5.4 percent, that same ten cents a day will not carry the present day 15 percent that is now over 65. Especially since the percentage paying in is shrinking.

Something has to give. Basic math.

G is correct, he is not misleading you. Something has to change, because the amount of people paying per person drawing has dropped dramatically.

If G is being honest also-------------->the plan could NEVER have been solvent for the long term. Even if our wonderful politicians hadn't spent the money on us, the day of reckoning would have been just pushed down the road.

There are many, many, many ways to fix SS. Problem is, to fix it, some group is going to take a bath. That is why politicians don't want to fix it.

But I betcha G and I both agree that our biggest problem is not SS, but rather Medicare. This is a REAL problem coming quickly, and politicians are going to have to do something, like it or not, or the party is over!

No offense to G, but my personal opinion is----------->this is one reason the Democrats want Medicare for all. They can hide the shortfall by folding it into the new program, then raising taxes by telling all the new recipients that if they don't pay, no healthcare!

I agree we need reform, but not just Medicare reform. We need to reform the entire health care system.

I have posted dozens and dozens of times what kind of reforms we need. To boil it down to a single sentence, we should be buying our health insurance the exact same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance.


However, we are going to end up with universal health care because the GOP isn't the slightest bit interested in doing the heavy intellectual lifting it would take to create a free market system that works.

While I am opposed to UHC, I am not a doomsday we-will-become-Venezuela rube. There are a large number of advanced Western countries which have UHC and they have not turned into communist Cuba.

I guess I have resigned myself to the inevitabilty of UHC. And I blame the Republicans and Trump for that. Not Bernie Sanders. Sanders is just the manifestation of America's frustration over our disastrous health care system, in the same way Trump is the manifestation of America's frustration of being robbed blind.

Venezuela is not where they are because of UHC and having been a licensed health insurance agent, I will say that our health should not be left up to the whims of the free market.