[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[PMZ]

There is no such thing as capitalism in America. Capitalism is an economy free from state control. That does not exist in America.

Capitalism is when the means of production are privately owned.

Very good, except that ownership implies control. If government makes all the decisions, then the only thing you own is a worthless scrap of paper called a title. The government is the true owner. We are rapidly approaching such a situation.

There's always a reason for regulation. In business, it's because of actual experience where a business or businesses tried to screw some or all of us.

 

[PMZ]

Theft is defined by the law.

You mean it's not theft if the government legalizes it?

Precisely.

 

[bripat9643]

Theft is defined by the law.

You mean it's not theft if the government legalizes it?

Precisely.

So the Nazi government didn't steal from the Jews when it took all their property and even the gold from their teeth?

 

[PMZ]

Less taxes for everybody is the argument that fits. Taxes should be a percentage equal to everyone. Not more taxes for being successful because the poorer classes are jealous of wealth and want free stuff. Work your way to wealth and pay the same taxes you paid when you were less wealthy. %%%%%%%%

Taxes are a means to correct capitalism's wealth redistribution up. Capitalism and America probably would not survive without that, as at a certain level of wealth inequality, society goes unstable.

Capitalism doesn't redistribute wealth, nimrod. The term doesn't mean, as you are attempting to imply, changing the current state of affairs with regard to how much of their income everyone is allowed to retain. It means taking from Richard Roe and giving the proceeds to John Doe. Under capitalism, everyone receives only what they've earned. I know that's a state of affairs that you object to, but we don't change the definition of words to facilitate your infantile prejudices.

Capitalism moves wealth up. That’s what it's designed to do. As people get more influence (read wealth) they keep tilting the playing field. After a time the very few have the vast majority of the wealth and influence and the majority react to the unfairness of it and society collapses.

We are close to that now. Only the actions of government are holding things together. Democrat government. Republicans would like to tilt the field more.

 

[bripat9643]

Capitalism is when the means of production are privately owned.

Very good, except that ownership implies control. If government makes all the decisions, then the only thing you own is a worthless scrap of paper called a title. The government is the true owner. We are rapidly approaching such a situation.

There's always a reason for regulation. In business, it's because of actual experience where a business or businesses tried to screw some or all of us.

Yes, there is a reason for regulation. Primarily it's because existing businesses want to keep out new competitors, so they get the government to erect obstacles for them to overcome. Another reason is that bureaucrats would have nothing to justify their salaries and pensions if they weren't constantly creating new regulations.

Protecting the public has almost nothing to do with it.

 

[PMZ]

You mean it's not theft if the government legalizes it?

Precisely.

So the Nazi government didn't steal from the Jews when it took all their property and even the gold from their teeth?

They didn't define it as criminal so nobody was prosecuted for it until after the war under international law. Then it became criminal.

 

[orogenicman]

Your "fair share" of my income is zero.

Any questions?

Life is not fair. Why should taxes be?

No evidence.

Are you of the belief that life owes you something?

 

[bripat9643]

So you believe that by preventing monopolies, competition is restricted?

That's bizarre even for you.

The government doesn't prevent monopolies. It creates them.

Try operating in restraint of trade. You'll get to meet the Justice Dpt. It'll be fun. For them.

And how would I go about "operating in restraint of trade?" Every corporation that has ever received that call from the justice department were doing absolutely nothing.

 

[bripat9643]

Life is not fair. Why should taxes be?

No evidence.

Are you of the belief that life owes you something?

Are you of the belief that you owe the government something?

 

[orogenicman]

None of which entitled you to the money any other individual earns. We had roads before the income tax. We'd be fine without the redistribution of wealth.

OMG. Folks this is what this guys wishes we had for roads today:

Yes where would we be without the government to pave roads for us? Only the government can pay with money to pave a road. Companies have no interest in paving roads to transport goods.

Really? In what alternative universe?

 

[bripat9643]

Precisely.

So the Nazi government didn't steal from the Jews when it took all their property and even the gold from their teeth?

They didn't define it as criminal so nobody was prosecuted for it until after the war under international law. Then it became criminal.

So it's not criminal for the government to confiscate all your property, regardless of anything you've done, shove you into a gas oven, and then collect the gold from your teeth so long as it passes a law saying it can?

 

[bripat9643]

OMG. Folks this is what this guys wishes we had for roads today:

Yes where would we be without the government to pave roads for us? Only the government can pay with money to pave a road. Companies have no interest in paving roads to transport goods.

Really? In what alternative universe?

So you believe private companies have never built any roads?

 

[PMZ]

So the Nazi government didn't steal from the Jews when it took all their property and even the gold from their teeth?

They didn't define it as criminal so nobody was prosecuted for it until after the war under international law. Then it became criminal.

So it's not criminal for the government to confiscate all your property, regardless of anything you've done, shove you into a gas oven, and then collect the gold from your teeth?

It wasn't criminal in Germany under your bud Adolf. That’s what happens when the tyranny of a minority assumes power.

 

[orogenicman]

its always amazing to me how poor "conservatives" are so willing to cut the taxes of rich liberals. Quite a few of the rich are singing and acting stars, mostly liberal. At one point a few years ago I believe it was 9 out of the top 10 richest congresspeople were democrats, i think it is still a majority of dems. Nancy Pelosi must just smirk silently when "conservatives" argue for less taxes on folks like herself.

Less taxes for everybody is the argument that fits. Taxes should be a percentage equal to everyone. Not more taxes for being successful because the poorer classes are jealous of wealth and want free stuff. Work your way to wealth and pay the same taxes you paid when you were less wealthy. %%%%%%%%

What is fair is that people pay what they can afford to pay. The filthy rich can afford to pay more.

 

[PMZ]

Very good, except that ownership implies control. If government makes all the decisions, then the only thing you own is a worthless scrap of paper called a title. The government is the true owner. We are rapidly approaching such a situation.

There's always a reason for regulation. In business, it's because of actual experience where a business or businesses tried to screw some or all of us.

Yes, there is a reason for regulation. Primarily it's because existing businesses want to keep out new competitors, so they get the government to erect obstacles for them to overcome. Another reason is that bureaucrats would have nothing to justify their salaries and pensions if they weren't constantly creating new regulations.

Protecting the public has almost nothing to do with it.

You're wrong.

 

[PMZ]

The government doesn't prevent monopolies. It creates them.

Try operating in restraint of trade. You'll get to meet the Justice Dpt. It'll be fun. For them.

And how would I go about "operating in restraint of trade?" Every corporation that has ever received that call from the justice department were doing absolutely nothing.

You're wrong.

 

[orogenicman]

No evidence.

Are you of the belief that life owes you something?

Are you of the belief that you owe the government something?

As a citizen of the United States I have an obligation, and a moral duty to serve my country. We all do. Nothing is free, bubba. And you still haven't answered my question.

 

[bripat9643]

They didn't define it as criminal so nobody was prosecuted for it until after the war under international law. Then it became criminal.

So it's not criminal for the government to confiscate all your property, regardless of anything you've done, shove you into a gas oven, and then collect the gold from your teeth?

It wasn't criminal in Germany under your bud Adolf. That’s what happens when the tyranny of a minority assumes power.

it wasn't against the law in Germany, but you're the only one who thinks it wasn't criminal. You think government can do whatever it likes.

BTW, we've already established the fact that your ideas are the ones that have the most in common with the Nazis. This one right here is a perfect example:

The world according to PMZ:
===============================================
It's morally acceptable for government to do whatever it likes so long as it gives itself permission by writing it down on a piece of paper. it can make you wear a yellow star on your chest, take all your property, herd you into cattle cars, shove you into gas ovens and take the gold from your teeth. No rights are violated and it does nothing immoral or unethical.

 

[bripat9643]

Are you of the belief that life owes you something?

Are you of the belief that you owe the government something?

As a citizen of the United States I have an obligation, and a moral duty to serve my country. We all do. Nothing is free, bubba. And you still haven't answered my question.

Wrong. How did I acquire such an obligation?

 

[PMZ]

No evidence.

Are you of the belief that life owes you something?

Are you of the belief that you owe the government something?

Everyone who benefits from living here owes his or her share of the cost. If someone lives here taking advantage of the country but doesn't pay their fair share, they are both criminal and stupid. Stupid for living where they are not satisfied.