Prayer

[Connery]

I pray to be heard

I meditate to listen for that which needs to be heard

In both instances I am spending a special time with my God to the exclusion of all else. In my normal activities I manifest that which has been heard through my actions and thoughts. Being human the road to perfection is always under construction and causes me to think about that which will be part of my pray and meditation.

I remember telling my mom - I think we're all on the same road. We all believe we are on a journey, and it will not end with our deaths. I may not have been as close to God as she was. She may have been walking right next to him, and I may have been walking on the shoulder of the road.

But it was the same road.

I do not know if there is a measure who is closer to God than another. For me it is a state of being, rather than a cognitive approach to my relationship with God.

 

[YWN666]

No atheist in a foxhole

There are plenty of atheists in foxholes.

not when the bombs are landing around your head.

No, atheists are busy shooting at the enemy while you are cowering in your foxhole with your hands clasped in prayer.

Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers | Atheists in Foxholes, in Cockpits, and on Ships - Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

 

[BDBoop]

I pray to be heard

I meditate to listen for that which needs to be heard

In both instances I am spending a special time with my God to the exclusion of all else. In my normal activities I manifest that which has been heard through my actions and thoughts. Being human the road to perfection is always under construction and causes me to think about that which will be part of my pray and meditation.

I remember telling my mom - I think we're all on the same road. We all believe we are on a journey, and it will not end with our deaths. I may not have been as close to God as she was. She may have been walking right next to him, and I may have been walking on the shoulder of the road.

But it was the same road.

I do not know if there is a measure who is closer to God than another. For me it is a state of being, rather than a cognitive approach to my relationship with God.

I don't believe comparing makes any sense. We're all in his together.

 

[The Irish Ram]

No, studies don't show that. Point of prayer isn't about miracles.

And a Prophet does need to prove himself with miracles.

In fact, people who need miracles to believe have weaker faith.

If we are to pray in all things, then prayer includes all things. "Thank you" is a prayer. So is, "Help!".

Miracles were a sign, for a time. They exist today for personal answer to prayer, but not like they were used for public edification during the time of the prophets and during Christ's and the disciple's era. The ones that worked wide spread and frequent miracles were special men commissioned for a unique role in a particular time period.
Miracles will be seen again to sway the public, by both God and Satan in the end times. Idols will talk, and prophets will rise from the dead.

And you are so right about faith vs show me first, then maybe I'll believe:

Matthew 12: 38-39 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;

 

[lizzie]

Anyway. I don't get it, which leads to part two. Some would say God is just trying to get my attention. Okay. Couldn't he do that by some other means than damn near causing a heart attack due to the stress of the issue? Or is it more logical to say He had nothing to do with it? I mean, I'd hate to think he's sadistic.

Anyway, that's my ungodly ramble for today.

I personally suspect that maybe prayer just puts us in a different frame of mind, and helps us accept the realities of life. As for God trying to get one's attention, perhaps it's just that we don't really give it any thought, until something painful comes along.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

No, studies don't show that. Point of prayer isn't about miracles.

And a Prophet does need to prove himself with miracles.

In fact, people who need miracles to believe have weaker faith.

If we are to pray in all things, then prayer includes all things. "Thank you" is a prayer. So is, "Help!".

Miracles were a sign, for a time. They exist today for personal answer to prayer, but not like they were used for public edification during the time of the prophets and during Christ's and the disciple's era. The ones that worked wide spread and frequent miracles were special men commissioned for a unique role in a particular time period.
Miracles will be seen again to sway the public, by both God and Satan in the end times. Idols will talk, and prophets will rise from the dead.

And you are so right about faith vs show me first, then maybe I'll believe:

Matthew 12: 38-39 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;

I think it had more to do with weak faith people's. And some of them were either abandoned or punished after being shown miracles and still refusing to believe.

Islam stressed that this era would end. Believing in the unseen would be the new thing.

And I'm saying that because I remember you used to tell me Mohammad wasn't a prophet because he didn't show us any miracles.

People that need supernatural miracles don't have a grain of salt of faith in their hearts.

 

[Chuckt]

^^^

No, studies don't show that. Point of prayer isn't about miracles.

And a Prophet does need to prove himself with miracles.

In fact, people who need miracles to believe have weaker faith.

Prayer doesn't change God because He is unchangeable so prayer can only change us.

We're servants so we can't really direct God but a lot of times in our lives we pray because we need help! But I think He likes to hear from us and it is important for us to be thankful to Him and to tell Him that we love Him.

 

[BDBoop]

Anyway. I don't get it, which leads to part two. Some would say God is just trying to get my attention. Okay. Couldn't he do that by some other means than damn near causing a heart attack due to the stress of the issue? Or is it more logical to say He had nothing to do with it? I mean, I'd hate to think he's sadistic.

Anyway, that's my ungodly ramble for today.

I personally suspect that maybe prayer just puts us in a different frame of mind, and helps us accept the realities of life. As for God trying to get one's attention, perhaps it's just that we don't really give it any thought, until something painful comes along.

But I do.

 

[LittleNipper]

How come it works? I can be at the very bottom of the darkest emotional hole, seeing no way out of the crisis. I ask for prayer, and I feel better.

It's not a placebo. My heart is damn near literally breaking, I can't cry hard enough ... and I PM someone and say please - ... help ... and within minutes I have regained control and even found some measure of calm. Within hours, I can set the burden aside and understand Romans 8:28.

I don't believe it's some placebo effect. Why didn't I just pray for myself and stop crying? I have experienced this throughout my entire life. It's why I could never say "There is no God," and believe that to be a true statement for any length of time.

Anyway. I don't get it, which leads to part two. Some would say God is just trying to get my attention. Okay. Couldn't he do that by some other means than damn near causing a heart attack due to the stress of the issue? Or is it more logical to say He had nothing to do with it? I mean, I'd hate to think he's sadistic.

Anyway, that's my ungodly ramble for today.

No atheist in a foxhole

There are plenty of atheists in foxholes.

Yet even they are caught praying.

 

[Chuckt]

There are plenty of atheists in foxholes.

not when the bombs are landing around your head.

No, atheists are busy shooting at the enemy while you are cowering in your foxhole with your hands clasped in prayer.

Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers | Atheists in Foxholes, in Cockpits, and on Ships - Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers

And I thought the Christians said, "Praise God and pass the ammunition."

 

[The Irish Ram]

No, atheists are busy shooting at the enemy while you are cowering in your foxhole with your hands clasped in prayer.

I'm pretty sure Christians can pray and load at the same time, but if they are so untrustworthy, maybe we should only send atheists to war........

 

[Avatar4321]

^^^

No, studies don't show that. Point of prayer isn't about miracles.

And a Prophet does need to prove himself with miracles.

In fact, people who need miracles to believe have weaker faith.

Prayer is about bringing our wills in line with the will of the Father. We don't pray to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves blessings the Father is already willing to give us but which are conditional upon our asking.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, atheists are busy shooting at the enemy while you are cowering in your foxhole with your hands clasped in prayer.

I'm pretty sure Christians can pray and load at the same time, but if they are so untrustworthy, maybe we should only send atheists to war........

Or maybe we should just not go to war.

 

[oldfart]

I don't believe it's some placebo effect. Why didn't I just pray for myself and stop crying? I have experienced this throughout my entire life. It's why I could never say "There is no God," and believe that to be a true statement for any length of time.

Anyway. I don't get it, which leads to part two. Some would say God is just trying to get my attention. Okay. Couldn't he do that by some other means than damn near causing a heart attack due to the stress of the issue? Or is it more logical to say He had nothing to do with it? I mean, I'd hate to think he's sadistic.

Anyway, that's my ungodly ramble for today.

I've read the thread and am a bit surprised no one has brought up some of the obvious points. Prayer is not the only activity that generates physiological, emotional, and mental reactions of the type you describe. If you want the positive results without any theology or negative angst, it's called meditation or contemplation and is common to a number of disciplines most of which are not religions. I had a philosophy professor who was simultaneously a Jesuit priest and a Zen master.

 

[Mr. H.]

My prayers were once answered, in a very surprising way.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Do you believe in God H?

 

[BDBoop]

I don't believe it's some placebo effect. Why didn't I just pray for myself and stop crying? I have experienced this throughout my entire life. It's why I could never say "There is no God," and believe that to be a true statement for any length of time.

Anyway. I don't get it, which leads to part two. Some would say God is just trying to get my attention. Okay. Couldn't he do that by some other means than damn near causing a heart attack due to the stress of the issue? Or is it more logical to say He had nothing to do with it? I mean, I'd hate to think he's sadistic.

Anyway, that's my ungodly ramble for today.

I've read the thread and am a bit surprised no one has brought up some of the obvious points. Prayer is not the only activity that generates physiological, emotional, and mental reactions of the type you describe. If you want the positive results without any theology or negative angst, it's called meditation or contemplation and is common to a number of disciplines most of which are not religions. I had a philosophy professor who was simultaneously a Jesuit priest and a Zen master.

Actually, [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] did. It was just in a different thread.

And what I said to him is that my faith is my own, which led him to believe I was snarking ... which I was not. I know there are many paths, that is part of what me examining my faith is about. I spent decades in the Assembly of God, which is incredibly legalistic. Therefore, the first place I had to reason out was that Christianity is not the only road to 'heaven.'

I am not even recognizable as myself when in the condition I was in. I couldn't calm down enough to do anything to relief the psychic pain. All I knew to do was ask a woman I know to be a prayer warrior to please intercede for me - and that's what I did.

And it worked.

 

[oldfart]

I've read the thread and am a bit surprised no one has brought up some of the obvious points. Prayer is not the only activity that generates physiological, emotional, and mental reactions of the type you describe. If you want the positive results without any theology or negative angst, it's called meditation or contemplation and is common to a number of disciplines most of which are not religions. I had a philosophy professor who was simultaneously a Jesuit priest and a Zen master.

Actually, [MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] did. It was just in a different thread.

And what I said to him is that my faith is my own, which led him to believe I was snarking ... which I was not. I know there are many paths, that is part of what me examining my faith is about. I spent decades in the Assembly of God, which is incredibly legalistic. Therefore, the first place I had to reason out was that Christianity is not the only road to 'heaven.'

I am not even recognizable as myself when in the condition I was in. I couldn't calm down enough to do anything to relief the psychic pain. All I knew to do was ask a woman I know to be a prayer warrior to please intercede for me - and that's what I did.

And it worked.

First of all, I'm glad it works for you. And I have no desire to get into a theological debate. My point is not about comparative religion, or religion at all. It's that there are ways of dealing with "psychic pain" that work for most people that are independent of what you believe about religion. Therefore anyone can add them to their "kitbag" as my Jesuit professor did. Certain aspects of Christian worship are forms of meditation.

I would have one suggestion. In my experience it's a good idea to practice these methods on a regular basis, be it prayer or contemplation. This reduces stress that builds up in ordinary life and creates a reserve of peace and strength you can draw on in times of need. Just seems to work better that way.

Peace, Jamie

 

[Derideo_Te]

No, atheists are busy shooting at the enemy while you are cowering in your foxhole with your hands clasped in prayer.

I'm pretty sure Christians can pray and load at the same time, but if they are so untrustworthy, maybe we should only send atheists to war........

Why must Atheists fight and die for your God?

 

[Mr. H.]

Do you believe in God H?

That's a long complicated story, but to sum it up in one word... yes.

[MENTION=29246]TheIrishRam[/MENTION]