Zone1 Predatory Capitalism

[Mac-7]

Do big companies get handouts and assistance?

Not as much as you think

If they are aerospace defense contractors perhaps

But the vegan coop is not in that class

 

[TruthNotBS]

Not as much as you think

If they are aerospace defense contractors perhaps

But the vegan coop is not in that class

I have a long list of hundreds of thousands of companies, that get all types of assistance from Uncle Sam. It's in the interest of our government and the public in general, to stimulate the economy and sometimes help companies, for all types of reasons. You have no problem with that, unless it's workers uniting to start democratically run cooperatives. I'm not a Vegan, I'm a carnivore and a social conservative.

You love handouts and bailouts to the rich, you only get your feathers ruffled when it's working-class people getting some help to launch a cooperative.

 

[Mac-7]

I have a long list of hundreds of thousands of companies, that get all types of assistance from Uncle Sam. It's in the interest of our government and the public in general, to stimulate the economy and sometimes help companies, for all types of reasons. You have no problem with that, unless it's workers uniting to start democratically run cooperatives. I'm not a Vegan, I'm a carnivore and a social conservative.

You love handouts and bailouts to the rich, you only get your feathers ruffled when it's working-class people getting some help to launch a cooperative.

You are a typical lib who wants government handouts

Have you installed your gov subsidized solar panels yet?

Or your EV thanks to taxpayer handouts?

Giving government grants to anyone rich or poor invites waste

 

[dblack]

The individual rights of every citizen are protected in a democracy, including the rights of the minority. I prefer the rule of the majority over the rule of a small minority of self-serving capitalists. You prefer the rich ruling over everybody else, at their expense, whereas I prefer the vast majority of people ruling over their government and making sure their government serves their interests, not the financial interests of a few billionaires.

The only way the rich can "rule" us, is via government. Bill Gates can't force you to do a damned thing. If, however, he were also the party chairman ...

Everyone's legitimate rights are protected in a civil democracy, so your concerns are cynical and disingenuous.

Not their economic rights. Those are obliterated. And frankly, they're the most important rights we have. Without the right to control the fruits of your labor, without the right to trade with others as you see fit, free from interference - pretty much every other right is moot.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The only way the rich can "rule" us, is via government. Bill Gates can't force you to do a damned thing. If, however, he was also the party chairman ...

Not their economic rights. Those are obliterated. And frankly, they're the most important rights we have. Without the right to control the fruits of your labor, without the right to trade with others as you see fit, free from interference - pretty much every other right is moot.

Since we need a government, then that government should serve the public good, not the vested interests of a few wealthy people at everyone else's expense.

Capitalism and its markets will last to the extent that wage labor is needed. Once advanced automation and artificial intelligence eliminate enough jobs, that's the end of capitalism.

​

 

[TruthNotBS]

You are a typical lib who wants government handouts

Have you installed your gov subsidized solar panels yet?

Or your EV thanks to taxpayer handouts?

Giving government grants to anyone rich or poor invites waste

You're a typical right-winger, who doesn't appreciate the fact everything in this world is produced by human labor and if the government invests its resources and facilitates production, by funding and equipping labor, that's not a handout but rather a means to increase production and abundance. You're just willfully ignorant, due to your irrational rancor for hard-working people. You're probably a capitalist parasite yourself, who relies on other people's labor to turn a profit.

 

[dblack]

Since we need a government, then that government should serve the public good, not the vested interests of a few wealthy people at everyone else's expense.

Capitalism and its markets will last to the extent that wage labor is needed. Once advanced automation and artificial intelligence eliminate enough jobs, that's the end of capitalism.

The government shouldn't serve anyone's "interests". Instead, it should protect everyone's rights. Equally. Without favor or bias.

We're never going to agree on the role of government. You want a government that decides how society will operate. I want a government that protects our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily, collaboratively. Democracy is a fine tool when it's vital that we're all on the same page, in situations where letting everyone go their own way isn't viable. Otherwise, majority rule is a sledge hammer, and there's no good reason to force everyone to conform to the "interests" of the majority.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The government shouldn't serve anyone's "interests". Instead, it should protect everyone's rights. Equally. Without favor or bias.

We're never going to agree on the role of government. You want a government that decides how society will operate. I want a government that protects our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily, collaboratively. Democracy is a fine tool when it's vital that we're all on the same page, in situations where letting everyone go their own way isn't viable. Otherwise, majority rule is a sledge hammer, and there's no good reason to force everyone to conform to the "interests" of the majority.

The government shouldn't serve anyone's "interests".

That's the very purpose of government. To serve the public good, which is the most basic interest. You're quite confused, if not LOCO.


Instead....

Instead of serving the public's interest?

.....it should protect everyone's rights. Equally. Without favor or bias.

It should protect people's rights, and that is in the public's interest. The government also issues the currency, conducts diplomacy, maintains a military, and conducts many other functions that are in the public's interest. The government receives its rights from the people who formed it, through its constitution.

We're never going to agree on the role of government. You want a government that decides how society will operate. I want a government that protects our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily, and collaboratively.

The people who formed their government decide how it's going to legislate, what laws are passed through its legislative process, and how those laws are enforced. The people define their rights and the government protects them through its courts, police, or military. If the people of a society are of the conviction, that every member of its community is born with the right to at least basic housing, healthcare, an education and employment in the public sector, then that's the type of society those people will live in.

It's not up to you as an individual, or me, it's up to the community. If you believe that society should be a certain way and you want to convince others to adopt your point of view, you should have the right to express your views and try to convince others to believe, as you do. You can form a movement, and maybe if your ideas are really good, people will vote in the next election, for the candidate that shares your convictions and values. It's that simple.

Socialists are doing well now. Most of the youth are embracing socialist economics, and rejecting capitalism. In the not-too-distant future, with the advent of advanced automation and artificial intelligence, a non-profit, publicly owned, centrally planned, collaborative system of production i.e. socialism, will replace capitalism. You can try to stop it, by convincing people to remain under capitalism. You have that right in this country, as you should. Promote your right-wing capitalist lunacy and who knows, maybe you'll turn everyone into mindless, brainwashed drones, serving their capitalist masters. But I doubt it.


Democracy is a fine tool when it's vital that we're all on the same page,


Essentially what you're saying is that democracy is great provided every one or most people agree with you. That's not how democracy works. If you find yourself in the minority in a democracy, and your policies aren't adopted, then it's up to you, in a country with a free press and a first amendment, to broadcast your views and convince the populace, to adopt your worldview. There are basic rights that you have, that can't be violated, even if you're politically on the fringe, in a small minority. You're still protected and you have the right to change people's minds, by providing good, convincing arguments for your point of view.


in situations where letting everyone go their own way isn't viable. Otherwise, majority rule is a sledge hammer, and there's no good reason to force everyone to conform to the "interests" of the majority.


There's a public interest, which includes everyone, regardless of their political ideology or beliefs. Your human rights are protected. But as far as government policy, the majority, through elections, rule and govern, within the boundaries of the constitution and without violating anyone's rights. If you want your right-wing politics to be dominant in the government, then you're going to have to convince most of the American population, that your worldview better serves their interests.

Right now, the move towards socialist economics is HUGE, especially among Americans between the ages of 18 and 44.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Right now, the move towards socialist economics is HUGE, especially among Americans between the ages of 18 and 44.

Thank goodness. dblack actually makes more sense than most here, but he still never groks that fighting corruption isn't all about dealing with the ones doing the taking. It's about dealing with those who offer the favors / gifts / bribes while insisting they remain treated as legal "contributions."

 

[Grumblenuts]

Those with too much corrupt others with their excess. No one else. Enough is enough. Too much is too much. Solution: Tax away the excess. Too little is too little. Solution: Subsidize poverty away. We could all easily live within a range of self-worth most find reasonable and far more secure.

 

[Grumblenuts]

This month, hundreds of journalists working for major dailies in some two dozen cities across America joined in an extraordinary mass walkout from their jobs. They were protesting the rank greed, gross mismanagement, and abandonment of democratic duty by the owner of their papers. That owner is Gannett, a massive financial conglomerate that has grabbled control of more than 200 dailies in 43 states. This is a huge, multidimensional news story about news itself – but where was the coverage?

Too big is more than enough. Break 'em up into mom & pop size, delicious morsels.

 

[The Duke]

You're a typical right-winger, who doesn't appreciate the fact everything in this world is produced by human labor and if the government invests its resources and facilitates production, by funding and equipping labor, that's not a handout but rather a means to increase production and abundance. You're just willfully ignorant, due to your irrational rancor for hard-working people. You're probably a capitalist parasite yourself, who relies on other people's labor to turn a profit.

Your handle should have been "CommieRetardMan"

Christians are not Communist. Well..maybe Russian Orthodox could be.

Tell me what you know about labor surplus.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Your handle should have been "CommieRetardMan"

Christians are not Communist. Well..maybe Russian Orthodox could be.

Tell me what you know about labor surplus.

Google it.

 

[The Duke]

Google it.

I just did!

Here, Let Me Google That For You

Passive-aggressively teach your friends how to Google. For all those people who find it more convenient to ask you rather than search it themselves. Not associated with Google.

googlethatforyou.com

 

[Mac-7]

You're a typical right-winger, who doesn't appreciate the fact everything in this world is produced by human labor and if the government invests its resources and facilitates production, by funding and equipping labor, that's not a handout but rather a means to increase production and abundance. You're just willfully ignorant, due to your irrational rancor for hard-working people. You're probably a capitalist parasite yourself, who relies on other people's labor to turn a profit.

You want something for nothing

And that is a handout even if you rationalize it by pointing the finger at corporations

But where have I ever defended handouts to Tesla either?

In my world two wrongs do not add up to one right

 

[TruthNotBS]

You want something for nothing

And that is a handout even if you rationalize it by pointing the finger at corporations

But where have I ever defended handouts to Tesla either?

In my world two wrongs do not add up to one right

You want something for nothing....

As a capitalist parasite, you want to make a profit, off of other's labor. Stop being a lazy bum.

And that is a handout even if you rationalize by pointing the finger at corporations...

You want to hire people and have them work for you, while you're at the beach or golf course. You're a lazy, mammon-worshiping bum.


But where have I ever defended handouts to Tesla either? In my world two wrongs do not add up to one right..

Workers build and produce everything in this world, so it's not the same.

 

[Mac-7]

You want something for nothing....

As a capitalist parasite, you want to make a profit, off of other's labor. Stop being a lazy bum.

And that is a handout even if you rationalize by pointing the finger at corporations...

You want to hire people and have them work for you, while you're at the beach or golf course. You're a lazy, mammon-worshiping bum.


But where have I ever defended handouts to Tesla either? In my world two wrongs do not add up to one right..

Workers build and produce everything in this world, so it's not the same.

Again, for you it all comes down to scoring free stuff from the government

If you want to start a worker owned company no one is stopping you

But dont expect taxpayers to pay for it

You borrow the money and if you succeed you reap the benefits

But if you fail you suffer the consequences

 

[TruthNotBS]

Again, for you it all comes down to scoring free stuff from the government

If you want to start a worker owned company no one is stopping you

But dont expect taxpayers to pay for it

You borrow the money and if you succeed you reap the benefits

But if you fail you suffer the consequences

Due to your ignorance, you believe the federal government budget is based on "tax dollars", but that's not the case. The government can make an investment in order to yield a return that will benefit the economy and society in general. Helping workers launch their cooperatives will give people another source of employment.

Capitalism depends upon government bailouts and handouts, without it, our economy would collapse every few years. We should just fully transition to socialism and get rid of capitalism.

 

[Grumblenuts]

If only Mac-7 could see the road over that steering wheel..

 

[Mac-7]

We should just fully transition to socialism and get rid of capitalism.

If we do that progress will cease

Socialists live off the effort of innovators that came before them

They are not creators so much as distributors of wealth that others have created

If you look at all the great companies in America producing wealth they were created by capitalists

So go ahead snd start your coop

I dont mind

Sell your stuff at the the local farmers market or street fairs

But dont mooch off your fellow citizens in the process