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So our delusional person has spoken. Now if any intelligent comments are out there....all are welcome.
Obamacare will outlive the TeaParty
Single payer exists in Countries where trial lawyers cannot sue doctors and hospitals every 3 seconds, and where if you bring a civil suit and lose, you most pay all legal fees for both parties as well as court costs. The only way single payer works in major tort reform.
Question for Dems: Do you support completely reinventing our civil legal system? Do you think Democrats will ever support tort reform to make single payer viable?
Single payer exists in countries where the average wait time to see a Doctor is 3 months. The average wait time for ANY surgery is 12-16 months.
Do you have cites for these?
I found this story: The Doc's In, but It'll Be a While
Susan M., a 54-year-old human resources executive in New York City, faithfully schedules a mammogram every year, calling each April because she knows it will take at least six weeks to get an appointment. She went in for her routine screening at the end of May, and a few days later learned she would need a second mammogram because the first wasn't clear enough. First date available: July 3. After complaining to a supervisor, Susan (who didn't want her last name used) got an appointment for a week later, and that's when the real waiting started.
A doctor immediately reviewed the second mammogram and told her it showed an abnormality and that she would need a so-called stereotactic biopsy, an outpatient procedure in which a needle is inserted into the breast. But she couldn't get an appointment for the procedure until mid-August. "I completely freaked out," she says. "I couldn't imagine spending the summer with this hanging over my head!" After many calls to five different facilities, Susan found a clinic that would read her existing mammograms on June 25. They would also schedule a follow-up MRI and a biopsy, if needed, within 10 days. That's a full month after her first, suspicious mammogram. "We are constantly told that early detection of cancer is key," she says. "The system is clearly broken."
I hear this a lot. By whose measure? What I mean is that I have worked since I was 14. I'm now 69. I have had insurance the vast majority of my working life. I have never once had a problem with the "current system". I have had 3 major surgeries (at a cost of about $500 for all three) - My Wife had her gall bladder removed ($100) a Hysterectomy ($100) two knees replaced ($100) and we both are on medications every day ($10) per prescription - 2 for her and 3 for me ($50) per month.
Each Doctors appointment cost us $10 per visit.
Now, this may seem like a lot, but the surgeries were over a 25 year time period and we see our Doctor every 3 months. Our insurance picks up the rest.
How is that not "fair"?
It's an anecdote not indicative of what others experience.
Single payer exists in countries where the average wait time to see a Doctor is 3 months. The average wait time for ANY surgery is 12-16 months.
Do you have cites for these?
I found this story: The Doc's In, but It'll Be a While
Susan M., a 54-year-old human resources executive in New York City, faithfully schedules a mammogram every year, calling each April because she knows it will take at least six weeks to get an appointment. She went in for her routine screening at the end of May, and a few days later learned she would need a second mammogram because the first wasn't clear enough. First date available: July 3. After complaining to a supervisor, Susan (who didn't want her last name used) got an appointment for a week later, and that's when the real waiting started.
A doctor immediately reviewed the second mammogram and told her it showed an abnormality and that she would need a so-called stereotactic biopsy, an outpatient procedure in which a needle is inserted into the breast. But she couldn't get an appointment for the procedure until mid-August. "I completely freaked out," she says. "I couldn't imagine spending the summer with this hanging over my head!" After many calls to five different facilities, Susan found a clinic that would read her existing mammograms on June 25. They would also schedule a follow-up MRI and a biopsy, if needed, within 10 days. That's a full month after her first, suspicious mammogram. "We are constantly told that early detection of cancer is key," she says. "The system is clearly broken."
Well, aside from living in several countries that had "single payer" and witnessing the effects first hand, there was this:
How Long Do Canadians Wait for Healthcare?
That took me 20 seconds to find. I'm sure that I could find 10 more articles easily. Try it. research works just as well if you do it yourself.
I hear this a lot. By whose measure? What I mean is that I have worked since I was 14. I'm now 69. I have had insurance the vast majority of my working life. I have never once had a problem with the "current system". I have had 3 major surgeries (at a cost of about $500 for all three) - My Wife had her gall bladder removed ($100) a Hysterectomy ($100) two knees replaced ($100) and we both are on medications every day ($10) per prescription - 2 for her and 3 for me ($50) per month.
Each Doctors appointment cost us $10 per visit.
Now, this may seem like a lot, but the surgeries were over a 25 year time period and we see our Doctor every 3 months. Our insurance picks up the rest.
How is that not "fair"?
It's an anecdote not indicative of what others experience.
What the hell do I care what "others" experience? It's not MY job to worry about their (or your) family. That's YOUR job.
It's an anecdote not indicative of what others experience.
What the hell do I care what "others" experience? It's not MY job to worry about their (or your) family. That's YOUR job.
Sounds like a great plan. Why are you so opposed to all Americans having access to such a plan?
Single payer exists in countries where the average wait time to see a Doctor is 3 months. The average wait time for ANY surgery is 12-16 months.
Wait times to receive medical treatment in Canada are the highest they've been in 18 years, according to a new report.
The median wait time is 19 weeks between the referral from a general practitioner and the start of elective treatment, finds the report, released by the Fraser Institute Monday.
"Canadians are being forced to wait almost 4 ½ months, on average, to receive surgical care, prolonging the pain and suffering patients and their families are forced to endure," said Mark Rovere, a co-author of the report.
Well, aside from living in several countries that had "single payer" and witnessing the effects first hand, there was this:
How Long Do Canadians Wait for Healthcare?
That took me 20 seconds to find. I'm sure that I could find 10 more articles easily. Try it. research works just as well if you do it yourself.
No. You made the claim, so you need to support it.
And your link does not support your claim. It says 9.5 weeks for treatment, not 12-16 months.
Try again.
Your statement to the Senate: Today, the average wait time for (hip replacement) surgery at KGH is about 196 days. In fact, our actual average hip replacement wait time is 91 days less than half of what you stated.
Your statement to the Senate: What about knee replacements? Well, at Kingston General, the average wait time is 340 days, or almost a year from the moment that the doctor says you need a new knee. In fact, our average wait time for knee replacements is 109 days.
Your statement to the Senate: What about brain cancer? In Ontario the target wait time for brain cancer surgery is nearly three months; same for breast cancer and prostate cancer. These are simply that, targets. In fact, at KGH our average overall wait times for surgical treatment of all forms of cancer is 31 days (16 days for breast cancer, 49 for prostate and eight for neurosurgical cancer).
I'm sure that I could find 10 more articles easily.
It's an anecdote not indicative of what others experience.
What the hell do I care what "others" experience? It's not MY job to worry about their (or your) family. That's YOUR job.
Sounds like a great plan. Why are you so opposed to all Americans having access to such a plan?
Well, aside from living in several countries that had "single payer" and witnessing the effects first hand, there was this:
How Long Do Canadians Wait for Healthcare?
That took me 20 seconds to find. I'm sure that I could find 10 more articles easily. Try it. research works just as well if you do it yourself.
No. You made the claim, so you need to support it.
And your link does not support your claim. It says 9.5 weeks for treatment, not 12-16 months.
Try again.
Apparently, as I thought, your reading comprehension is lacking. Read the post again, moron.
You are wrong. Obamacare is too destructive of faith in government solutions for the TEA party to actually repeal it just the subsidies will be repealed in 2017. The votes needed in both houses to actually repeal will never be there.So our delusional person has spoken. Now if any intelligent comments are out there....all are welcome.
I hear this a lot. By whose measure? What I mean is that I have worked since I was 14. I'm now 69. I have had insurance the vast majority of my working life. I have never once had a problem with the "current system". I have had 3 major surgeries (at a cost of about $500 for all three) - My Wife had her gall bladder removed ($100) a Hysterectomy ($100) two knees replaced ($100) and we both are on medications every day ($10) per prescription - 2 for her and 3 for me ($50) per month.
Each Doctors appointment cost us $10 per visit.
Now, this may seem like a lot, but the surgeries were over a 25 year time period and we see our Doctor every 3 months. Our insurance picks up the rest.
How is that not "fair"?
It's an anecdote not indicative of what others experience.
What the hell do I care what "others" experience? It's not MY job to worry about their (or your) family. That's YOUR job.
The average wait before having a new knee fitted rose from 88.9 days to 99.2 days, while patients needing hernia surgery typically waited 78.3 days in 2011 compared with 70.4 the year before. The delay before the removal of gallstones increased over the same period, by 7.4 days, as did the delay before having a new hip (6.3 days longer), hysterectomy (three days) and cataract removed (2.2 days).
No. You made the claim, so you need to support it.
And your link does not support your claim. It says 9.5 weeks for treatment, not 12-16 months.
Try again.
Apparently, as I thought, your reading comprehension is lacking. Read the post again, moron.
You are the one who said the wait times for ANY surgery was 12-16 months. You are the one who needs to do some re-reading.
Wait time is 19 weeks for surgery. Nowhere near 12-16 months.
It's an anecdote not indicative of what others experience.
What the hell do I care what "others" experience? It's not MY job to worry about their (or your) family. That's YOUR job.
"I got mine, screw you", eh?
If we are talking about healthcare reform, your little anecdote is not evidence to support a policy in any direction whatsoever. It is useless. It certainly isn't evidence we are not in dire need of reform.
Apparently, as I thought, your reading comprehension is lacking. Read the post again, moron.
You are the one who said the wait times for ANY surgery was 12-16 months. You are the one who needs to do some re-reading.
Wait time is 19 weeks for surgery. Nowhere near 12-16 months.
You obviously look for an s=article that supports your BS. Okay, two can play at that
ObamaCare: A Canadian Wait Time Preview; Canada Encourages Patients to Dr. Shop for Shorter Waits
See how easy that is?
Writes reader Peter:
According to this June 2009 posting, the wait time for an MRI in Ontario is 100 days . . . which is down from 120 days.
So you need an MRI because your doctor worries that something is wrong. You wait and worry for 100 days. (Here, in the US, you wait and worry for a day or two.) Once you get your MRI in Ontario, then you get on the wait list to see your doctor again to discuss the results. If the MRI shows that you do need a procedure, you put your name on the wait list for that.
Its no wonder it takes years to get an elective procedure like a hip or a knee replacement.
(An aside about elective procedures years ago a 70-year-old with bad knees or bad hip joints got two canes and then a wheel chair. Today they get new knees or new hips and a return to an active and productive life.)
Interesting fact: There are 50-some MRI machines in all of Ontario (that includes some major cities Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Windsor, etc.) and, amazingly, 50-some MRI machines just in the eight counties of Western New York (Greater Buffalo). Its not that Western New Yorkers are high-utilizers, its that the area hugs the border. Canadians come over the bridge to get the care they need. We see that same situation in border cities across the US.
Heres a press release from 2002, documenting the cross-border MRI shopping.
Also, read this from the Buffalo News about how Canadian governments doctors are recommending telling patients the urgency of their conditions and how long they can wait for treatment, so they can travel around the country and doctor shop, so they can find a doctor with a shorter wait time.
Being able to pinpoint the areas where the waiting lists are the shortest, it is hoped, encourages them to move around more within their individual province as they seek care. But the idea of entering a hospital or surgical facility that may be many miles away from their own neighborhood is not something that many find appealing.
Nevertheless, traveling to another area for surgery is an option that is available depending on the urgency of the procedure required.
A very recent trawl of the government Web site revealed the often-substantial geographic differences in wait times. At St. Josephs Health Center in Toronto, the wait time for breast cancer surgery was listed as 48 days, while approximately 85 miles away at Peterborough Regional Health Center, the wait time was only 18 days.
St. Michaels Hospital in Toronto listed a wait time of 113 days for its general surgery, while some 58 miles away at Ross Memorial Hospital in Lindsay, one need wait only 46 days.
At Kingston General Hospital, a wait time of 73 days existed for bypass surgery, but 160 miles away, at the University Health Network in Toronto, there was only a 35-day wait.
Feel like traveling and traipsing across America to timbuktu, so you can see a doctor?
Me, neither.
Single payer was the intent.
