President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[dudmuck]

 

[Toro]

I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.

Are Canadians just that much better workers than Americans? Or have their steel companies just invested in more modernization than American steel companies?

I would venture a guess that labor costs in Canada are significantly lower than they are in the US, thanks mainly to the steelworkers union. Cheaper labor costs lead to lower prices to get the same profit and voila! I don't think Canadian workers are any better, and I highly doubt Canadian steel companies are more modernized. Although on 2nd thought that could be, if the steelworkers union has language in their contracts that says the steel companies can only do so much automation.

The same union represents steel workers in Canada and the United States.

United Steelworkers

The Canadians aren’t the problem. The problem is oversupply from Asia.

Trump is just slapping higher trade taxes on all foreigners, which means higher prices for all Americans.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.

Are Canadians just that much better workers than Americans? Or have their steel companies just invested in more modernization than American steel companies?

I would venture a guess that labor costs in Canada are significantly lower than they are in the US, thanks mainly to the steelworkers union. Cheaper labor costs lead to lower prices to get the same profit and voila! I don't think Canadian workers are any better, and I highly doubt Canadian steel companies are more modernized. Although on 2nd thought that could be, if the steelworkers union has language in their contracts that says the steel companies can only do so much automation.

The same union represents steel workers in Canada and the United States.

United Steelworkers

The Canadians aren’t the problem. The problem is oversupply from Asia.

Trump is just slapping higher trade taxes on all foreigners, which means higher prices for all Americans.

Canada is the largest supplier of steel to the US, followed closely by Brazil, which together account for more than 25% of US imports of steel.

 

[Correll]

I think that we will not improve our trade balance until we show the rest of the world that we will not be their bitch anymore.

We bought up the rest of the world. That’s why there’s a trade imbalance. They’ve been our bitch for decades.

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.

Sure, just not in the historic way you're imagining. People are increasingly less needed for production.

It's time to stop being dependent on the local plant for your well being and time for individuals to be flexible and self sufficient.

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


Is it because they use antiquated manual labor production techniques?

 

[Correll]

So, if cheap imports were bad then, are they good now?

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin going down

Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

 

[Correll]

Every time any politician or business leader suggests protective tariffs, the globalists trot out the argument that it will start a "trade war" and will "cost us jobs." Really? Then how come China, one of the most protectionist nations on Earth, has had growth that has nearly doubled ours for a long time? How come America did so well when we followed ardently protectionist policies for decades, start with Abraham Lincoln?

And as for a "trade war," we have been in a "trade war" for decades--the globalists just don't want us to defend ourselves very much. Yes, we have some tariffs, but not to the degree that many other nations have. And, by the way, look at the industries that we do somewhat protect with tariffs, such as sugar--they are doing well.

I just love how the isolationist always being up Lincoln when talking about tariffs. Because the world has not changed at all since the days of Lincoln. When Lincoln was president it took longer to get across the country than it does for a ship to go from China to the US.

You people need to quit living in the past, the world has passed you by.

Explain what has changed in the world that means that letting other countries take our jobs is not a problem and does not hurt our citizens.

Especially as we can see how it has hurt our citizens.

The world is getting smaller and menial jobs will go to the cheapest place. We need to take advantage of our workers education and Tech ability, once the GOP allows cheaper training like Germany and other smart countries

Germany's behavior, revealed in the WTO airbus ruling, shows that they don't believe that their workers are better, they think they need to subsidize their manufacturers to take American jobs.


Trump Right on Trade Predators

"
Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

"



"smaller", "Menial", these are just meaningless buzzwords. Airplane and car manufacturing is not menial, nor low paying.


These nations desperately want these jobs. Why do you think that is?

 

[Correll]

he just fullfilled another campaign promise!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...num-imports/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.901513c38611

Of course these costs will get immediately passed on to consumers, which always happens whenever tariffs are raised.

not if they change sources to American manufacturers.


Easy way to avoid the tax.

No, dope. American steel still costs more. The effect will be the same.

So, a minor increase in price for the consumer, but the jobs stay here?


Sounds like a good policy to me.

A minor increase? So nice of you to decide what is minor.

It is rotten policy from a rotten President.

The amount of the increase, with examples have been discussed by other posters. The increases look minor.


A couple of cents on a can of soup. A couple of dozen bucks on a car.


You really consider that major?

 

[eddiew37]

Luddites, you got to love them!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Automation!
No wonder it still takes the same amount of people to build a house or a skyscraper!
Seriously, I was expecting you to post a car wash.

so, you think it takes the same amount of time to build a house now as it did in 1900? Ok buddy, whatever you tell have to tell yourself.

You're joking...1900 was a real bad choice of years.
It takes more people now.

It's obvious you never visit the several dozen workers who are constantly expanding your mansion.
You're too busy playing golf.

You talking to Drumph??

 

[Correll]

"The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse

"i don't know that President Trump should apologize to anyone for protecting American workers and certainly not to Senator Sasse" - Sarah Hogan Sanders

The Free Traders had their chance. They blew it.

We still have the highest standard of living in the world. Nothing was blown.

1. No we don't. We are number ten, by this count. Most of the ones ahead of US are in the EU trade bloc. Want to guess how many of them have a large trade surplus with US, at our expense?

2. AND that measurement is an average. It does not take into account the damage done to huge swaths of our nation over the last 50 years.

3. AND, if you look at the potential advances that should have been made by our middle class and working poor, over the last 50 years, if we had had decent policies, you see the real cost of our stupid policies.

Yes we do. Also the cost of living in the US is much lower in the US. Look at gas taxes in Europe. Plus the value added tax.

50 years ago Silicon Valley did not exist. Nor did Microsoft. The skills required in this economy is changing. You have no clue what you are talking about. It is if, or but. Are you using a crystal ball?

1. Standard of living measurements take cost of living into account. We are not number one anymore.

2. Our percentage of chip manufacturing is dropping due to other nations massively subsidizing their chip manufacturing. Our software is pirated on an industrial scale.

3. National policy has been focused on building these industries of the future (and not protecting them) while utterly ignoring vast segments of the economy and the people who fill those jobs. That has had horrible human costs to our society, and will continue to as long as we do that.

 

[sealybobo]

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin going down

Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

I’m not going to say we have some trade imbalances but there’s a right way to fix them and a wrong way. Consequences.

You would need to first point out the specific flaw and then explain how you’re gonna fix it. Trump wants to do what? Sounds like he’s not that bright. Are we going to tariff the shoe industry and help those workers?

 

[Correll]

"The President is proposing a massive tax increase on American families. Protectionism is weak, not strong. You'd expect a policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly Republican one." - Supercilious Ben Sasse

"i don't know that President Trump should apologize to anyone for protecting American workers and certainly not to Senator Sasse" - Sarah Hogan Sanders

The Free Traders had their chance. They blew it.

We still have the highest standard of living in the world. Nothing was blown.

1. No we don't. We are number ten, by this count. Most of the ones ahead of US are in the EU trade bloc. Want to guess how many of them have a large trade surplus with US, at our expense?

2. AND that measurement is an average. It does not take into account the damage done to huge swaths of our nation over the last 50 years.

3. AND, if you look at the potential advances that should have been made by our middle class and working poor, over the last 50 years, if we had had decent policies, you see the real cost of our stupid policies.

Yes we do. Also the cost of living in the US is much lower in the US. Look at gas taxes in Europe. Plus the value added tax.

50 years ago Silicon Valley did not exist. Nor did Microsoft. The skills required in this economy is changing. You have no clue what you are talking about. It is if, or but. Are you using a crystal ball?

Skills?
Have you noticed that Silicon Valley is interested in cheap labor and not skills?
Because only Indians have skills.
If you're not an Indian, MS won't hire you.

Not only that, but once the Indian has a management position, he will NEVER hire anyone but more Indians, and only certain ones.

 

[eddiew37]

No

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin going down

Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Correll Perhaps you can help me here ,,,If the imbalance in our trade with other nations is so obvious as shown by our 800 billion deficit what about it can't other nations see and agree with us ??...and make the changes without being threatened ? btw nobody will win a trade war

 

[Correll]

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin going down

Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

I’m not going to say we have some trade imbalances but there’s a right way to fix them and a wrong way. Consequences.

You would need to first point out the specific flaw and then explain how you’re gonna fix it. Trump wants to do what? Sounds like he’s not that bright. Are we going to tariff the shoe industry and help those workers?

The flaw, imo, is hidden in the details of a million pages of trade laws and regulations and subsidizes that effectively fixes the trade "game" against US.

It is a broad problem and Trump is addressing it with a broad solution.


These other nations, they didn't accidentally build trade barriers. They know what they need to do to fix it.


This is on them.


Or they can blow up world trade and see how they like that.

 

[Correll]

Sooo, you support President Trump on this move?

No he’s starting a trade war. It’s like if trump nuked russia. You can get me to agree russia is no good but not Nuking them.

Our trade imbalance needs to be fixed but we don’t need a trade war.

There goes our tax breaks. I hear the cost of living is already going up

We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin going down

Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

Correll Perhaps you can help me here ,,,If the imbalance in our trade with other nations is so obvious as shown by our 800 billion deficit what about it can't other nations see and agree with us ??...and make the changes without being threatened ? btw nobody will win a trade war

Because that vast amount of money is going into THEIR economies to the benefit of THEIR nations and THEIR citizens.


This covers up all kind of failures on the part of those governments, that they now don't have to address.


Even if a trade war burns down their economies, they can blame President Trump, and lord knows no one in their nations, nor in the world at large will say otherwise.

 

[Correll]

I am just trying to figure out why American steel cannot compete with Canadian steel.

Are Canadians just that much better workers than Americans? Or have their steel companies just invested in more modernization than American steel companies?

I would venture a guess that labor costs in Canada are significantly lower than they are in the US, thanks mainly to the steelworkers union. Cheaper labor costs lead to lower prices to get the same profit and voila! I don't think Canadian workers are any better, and I highly doubt Canadian steel companies are more modernized. Although on 2nd thought that could be, if the steelworkers union has language in their contracts that says the steel companies can only do so much automation.

Unions are a pale shadow of what they once were. Blaming them is really starting to sound less reasonable at this time.


I kind of doubt that Canada is really paying that low of wages.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

We bought up the rest of the world. That’s why there’s a trade imbalance. They’ve been our bitch for decades.

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.

Sure, just not in the historic way you're imagining. People are increasingly less needed for production.

It's time to stop being dependent on the local plant for your well being and time for individuals to be flexible and self sufficient.

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


Is it because they use antiquated manual labor production techniques?

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.

So what? What's your point?

 

[Correll]

Wilbur Ross: "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

AND that's with the high price of convenience store shopping.


Good find!

I SAW A MAN
I saw a man this morning defending the tariffs by holding up a can of Campbell Soup and an aluminum Coke can. He said there is about 2-1/2 cents of steel in the soup can and about 3 cents in the Coke can, so the increase in costs is hardly worth mentioning. My immediate thought was...what does John Deere or Peter-bilt or Carrier or Maytag or even Toyota think of the tariffs. What are those big Cats 3M uses made of?

I can't even pretend to grasp higher economics, but I know that an increase of 2-1/2 cents per can for millions of cans can add up. And I can imagine the effect on Pratt & Whitney and Boeing when it comes to a 25% increase in the cost of steel and 10% in the cost of aluminum. If he tariffs rubber, maybe we better start weaving coolie carts.

The argument was that the price increase made this a bad policy.


The can shows that price increase for each purchase is very small.


The CEOs of major manufactures, could see their small increases as "large" as they look at them as absolute numbers instead of proportionally.


But maybe they should consider that they are fucking Americans, before they try to save a few cents a ton, by fucking their fellow Americans.


And if such loyalty to their fellow citizens is too old fashioned for them to hold,


maybe they need to think what their fellow citizens' response will be if they decide they are tired of being fucked.

Why don't you fuck yourself. They have a fiduciary duty to do what is best for their shareholders. They are not in existence to create jobs. You keep talking about small increases. It may be easy for you to say that but not so easy for someone else to say., You seem to have no sympathy for the 144 million workers who work in steel using industries.

The last 50 years shows that US workers are not served by the status quo.


I was talking about what is best for their shareholders.


These corporations are part of American society.


Before they decide to fuck Americans over a few cents a ton, they should consider the response from those Americans.

Good Will, a Good Image, are assets.

 

[JoeB131]

You look around you, at your peers and extended family, do you seriously not see a need for more and better jobs?

No, i see the need for fair wealth distribution.

But the thing is, your Daddy's factory job is gone. Replaced by a machine a long time ago, not a Chinaman.

 

[JoeB131]

The last 50 years shows that US workers are not served by the status quo.


I was talking about what is best for their shareholders.


These corporations are part of American society.


Before they decide to fuck Americans over a few cents a ton, they should consider the response from those Americans.

Good Will, a Good Image, are assets.

Actually, those Americans will go to WalMart and buy the Chinese product made with non-tariff steel and aluminum, which will now be cheaper to buy because of Trumpenfuhrer's tariffs.

TRADE WARS DON'T WORK!!!

You know what will work? Invest in the education and infrastructure to make our industries competitive. This is what the Chinese did, and they are kicking our asses. This is what India did, and they are moving up fast.

 

[Correll]

I live in the Rust Belt. We have not bought up the rest of the world.


THey have fucked US.

Or, your dependence on manufacturing jobs has fucked you.

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.


Our trade "partners" have fucked up our manufacturing sector.


Trade is supposed to be mutually beneficial. If it is not, why do it?

Manufacturing is a part of any healthy, large economy.

Sure, just not in the historic way you're imagining. People are increasingly less needed for production.

It's time to stop being dependent on the local plant for your well being and time for individuals to be flexible and self sufficient.

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


Is it because they use antiquated manual labor production techniques?

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.

So what? What's your point?

It's proof that our current shit manufacturing employment is NOT a result of the level of automation technology.