Promoting Islamophobia

[Coyote]

I didn't ask for a link for the orphan law.

You make claims, and then you can't support them so you lash out.

If you can't support your claim on genital mutilation, then admit you made it up. Or provide a source.

If FGM was not a problem as you claim then why has the UK passed a law making it illegal to remove a child from the UK for the purpose of FGM. The sentence is a mandatory prison term and removal of all children into care. This because the practise amongst muslims in the UK was on the rise and the NHS was refusing to do the operations. The back street practioners were bodging so many of the mutilations that the NHS were reporting 2 or 3 a week to the police. And yes it was predominantly a muslim thing, with a few African Christians carrying it out as well.

You've built a strawman here. Perhaps you have not read the entire exchange between Rosie and I.

First of all - I never claimed FGM was not a problem. What I said was:
FGM is an example of a CULTURAL tradition, not a RELIGIOUS tradition.
FGM is most prevalent in a stretch of Africa that includes Islamic and non-Islamic communities.

Rosie claimed that:
1) FGM is mentioned in the Koran
2) It is on the rise throught the Islamic world including Turkey

I asked her for proof of those two claims upon which she ducked, diverted and had a meltdown.

Now do you want to discard your strawman?

No strawman at all it has spread into the M.E and Arabian peninsular and became a sign of Islamic religious traditions. It is more widespread in Islamic cultures than it is in any other due to the misogyny in islam. Wait until later and I will provide the evidence for you

The strawman was you claiming I said FGM was not a problem. It is. However it's a cultural tradition that predates Islam and was not a part of Islam originally though it's become associated with Islam probably through it's spread into Africa. It is most prevalent in a portion of Africa where both Christian and Muslim communities do it. It needs to be irradicated and in many countries it is now illegal or strictly curtailed. (Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It's a barbaric practice (yet it is often women who demand it) and it is decreasing in many areas fortunately.
In Kenya and Tanzania, women aged 45–49 years were three times more likely to have been cut than the 15–19 cohort. In Benin, Central African Republic, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria the figure for the 15–19 group had dropped by about half.[97] Prevalence rates in Chad, Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen remained roughly the same.[97] If the rate of decline continues, the number of women and girls affected by FGM in the key 29 countries will have increased by 2050 from 125 million to 196 million because of population growth.[96]

Coyote is lying again-----FGM follows islam----not just to Africa --it is even done in Pakistan----since islam got there.
Until very recently----the largest percentage of FGM victims per population----was Egyptian muslims ----the practice was
probably started in Egypt----spread to various parts of Africa and to Arabia------and thence followed islam----it is mentioned in the Koran (or hadiths-----if you say "Koran"---because
you read it in the Koran------propagandaists GOT YOU

very few Coptic Christians are victims of FGM. Denial
of the facts that I presented is Islamic historic revisionism
on par with the current claim that Jesus spoke arabic

From what I read, FGM has gone on at least 2000 years and probably started in Egypt and independently in some parts of Africa as part of puberty rituals. You're wrong about the Copts though. "The prevalence of FGM in the Copts is lower than that in Muslim Egyptian society but, nevertheless, it’s still high: 92% in Muslims and 74% in Copts, a difference of 18%." Source: PREVALENCE OF AND SUPPORT FOR FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION WITHIN THE COPTS OF EGYPT UNICEF REPORT 2013 ON COPTIC NATIONALISM

It is not in the Koran, and what is in the sparse hadith mentions is disputed. From a religious perspective it should be easy to stamp out.

 

[Coyote]

Anyone interested in the details of the ancient Egyptian custom
of Female genital "modification"-----which spread to various parts of Africa and into Arabia in ancient times and is now almost entirely an Islamic custom------feel free to ask.
There are
many different techniques employed by both muslims and
by the few African non muslims who still engage in the
custom. Today there is some attempt to stop it-----
even amongst muslims------but there is also some resistence
to that trend-----it has been mandated in the HOLY CALIPHATE
for the sake of allah.

Anyone interested in confiscation of orphans under
Islamic law----feel free to ask-----my very own mother-in-law--
escaped that horror----way back in the 1930s. Historically
it is an interesting issue-----ATATURK had outlawed it-----
in his bid to rid the Ottoman empire of the filth of shariah----
but backwoods shariah shit holes even in the Ottoman
empire fought to preserve it. Shariah is growing in appeal
in Turkey------in fact it's Erdogan's election platform.

FGM is not prevalent in Turkey right now----but it does exist---when I find the article which I read regarding its
RESURGENCE-----I will let you guys know.

for Koran-------check it yourselves----if someone says "that's not Koran , that's Hadith"-----understand that such responses are BS--------no matter---it's what muslims
consider "holy". The allusion in the Koran(or hadiths)
is small----but definitely present
Based on some Archaeological finds
in the Middle east ----it seems to have been something
going on in Canaan----not surprising since it was started
in Egypt (or so they say)

You claimed it was in the Koran and it wasn't. It's in a few - very few Hadiths one of which is considered to be a poor source by Islamic scholars and the others are disputed by scholars as to their meaning. It should be stamped out, like Sati was but it's probably going to be harder in the rural/tribal areas and in Africa where it's culturally entrenched regardless of religion. What's sad is it is often women themselves demanding it for their daughters. Actually Rosie...I think we may be in agreement here.

see? told ya----_HADITHS--------the typical islamo Nazi fart----"its not Koran its Hadiths------- ROFLMAO --------tantamount to saying "its not in jewish literature----just the Talmud". The over whelming majority of the millions of
FGM'ed girls living today are muslim and it was done
for the glory of allah.

You said it was in the Koran - it wasn't. The link I provided showed it was in one hadith who's authenticity was disputed, and a couple others who's translation was in dispute. Nothing about it being done for the "glory of Allah". It's a perverted cultural practice that predates Islam.

Try to live with reality, Coyote----there
are still muslim clerics who support it as a religious
obligation-------as well as some primitive black tribes---
fairly recent partial Christians who still practice it----along
with voodoo

Yes, there are muslim clerics who support it. There are people who support Sati still. But the prevalence of FGM is going down as more and more countries outlaw it. Primative black tribes? Fairly recent "partial" Christians"? Are you referring to the Copts?

anyone interested----just google FGM in Pakistan ------then Coyote will try to convince you that that Christian missionaries imposed it on muslims

Now you're being stupid. FGM predated Christianity and Christian missionaries, though Christians in those parts of Africa practice FGM. So do Jews in Ethiopia.

 

[irosie91]

If FGM was not a problem as you claim then why has the UK passed a law making it illegal to remove a child from the UK for the purpose of FGM. The sentence is a mandatory prison term and removal of all children into care. This because the practise amongst muslims in the UK was on the rise and the NHS was refusing to do the operations. The back street practioners were bodging so many of the mutilations that the NHS were reporting 2 or 3 a week to the police. And yes it was predominantly a muslim thing, with a few African Christians carrying it out as well.

You've built a strawman here. Perhaps you have not read the entire exchange between Rosie and I.

First of all - I never claimed FGM was not a problem. What I said was:
FGM is an example of a CULTURAL tradition, not a RELIGIOUS tradition.
FGM is most prevalent in a stretch of Africa that includes Islamic and non-Islamic communities.

Rosie claimed that:
1) FGM is mentioned in the Koran
2) It is on the rise throught the Islamic world including Turkey

I asked her for proof of those two claims upon which she ducked, diverted and had a meltdown.

Now do you want to discard your strawman?

No strawman at all it has spread into the M.E and Arabian peninsular and became a sign of Islamic religious traditions. It is more widespread in Islamic cultures than it is in any other due to the misogyny in islam. Wait until later and I will provide the evidence for you

The strawman was you claiming I said FGM was not a problem. It is. However it's a cultural tradition that predates Islam and was not a part of Islam originally though it's become associated with Islam probably through it's spread into Africa. It is most prevalent in a portion of Africa where both Christian and Muslim communities do it. It needs to be irradicated and in many countries it is now illegal or strictly curtailed. (Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It's a barbaric practice (yet it is often women who demand it) and it is decreasing in many areas fortunately.
In Kenya and Tanzania, women aged 45–49 years were three times more likely to have been cut than the 15–19 cohort. In Benin, Central African Republic, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria the figure for the 15–19 group had dropped by about half.[97] Prevalence rates in Chad, Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen remained roughly the same.[97] If the rate of decline continues, the number of women and girls affected by FGM in the key 29 countries will have increased by 2050 from 125 million to 196 million because of population growth.[96]

Coyote is lying again-----FGM follows islam----not just to Africa --it is even done in Pakistan----since islam got there.
Until very recently----the largest percentage of FGM victims per population----was Egyptian muslims ----the practice was
probably started in Egypt----spread to various parts of Africa and to Arabia------and thence followed islam----it is mentioned in the Koran (or hadiths-----if you say "Koran"---because
you read it in the Koran------propagandaists GOT YOU

very few Coptic Christians are victims of FGM. Denial
of the facts that I presented is Islamic historic revisionism
on par with the current claim that Jesus spoke arabic

From what I read, FGM has gone on at least 2000 years and probably started in Egypt and independently in some parts of Africa as part of puberty rituals. You're wrong about the Copts though. "The prevalence of FGM in the Copts is lower than that in Muslim Egyptian society but, nevertheless, it’s still high: 92% in Muslims and 74% in Copts, a difference of 18%." Source: PREVALENCE OF AND SUPPORT FOR FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION WITHIN THE COPTS OF EGYPT UNICEF REPORT 2013 ON COPTIC NATIONALISM

It is not in the Koran, and what is in the sparse hadith mentions is disputed. From a religious perspective it should be easy to stamp out.

ROFLMAO-----you claimed that they don't do it Egypt-----make up your mind-------yes "still high" means its happening----but with far less frequency than in the Islamic
population------right---you finally decided to agree with me
that it started in Egypt------gee thanks,, and from there spread to various lands in Africa and it is mentioned in the Koran/hadith damned book-----BTW---the overwhelming majority of persons now circumcised are muslims and the
practice TRAVELED with islam--------it did not travel with
Christianity-----or Hinduism ---or Buddhism-----ISLAAAAAM

That ~70 % figure-----includes the elderly----when FGM was
actually an EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------the biggers obstacle
in stamping out the practice is that so many muslim clerics
still DEMAND it

FGM in primitive African tribes is something like a coming of
age "tribulation" horror. ----and, preceded islam-------just as it preceded islam in Arabia------but then ARAB customs
got around------via the GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC
CONQUEST-------try to cope Coyote

of course male circumcision got around via the
GLORIOUS AGE OF JEWISH CONQUEST----
-----to wit---migration to the new world and to England
and the glorious advent of Hebrew National hot dogs

 

[Coyote]

You've built a strawman here. Perhaps you have not read the entire exchange between Rosie and I.

First of all - I never claimed FGM was not a problem. What I said was:
FGM is an example of a CULTURAL tradition, not a RELIGIOUS tradition.
FGM is most prevalent in a stretch of Africa that includes Islamic and non-Islamic communities.

Rosie claimed that:
1) FGM is mentioned in the Koran
2) It is on the rise throught the Islamic world including Turkey

I asked her for proof of those two claims upon which she ducked, diverted and had a meltdown.

Now do you want to discard your strawman?

No strawman at all it has spread into the M.E and Arabian peninsular and became a sign of Islamic religious traditions. It is more widespread in Islamic cultures than it is in any other due to the misogyny in islam. Wait until later and I will provide the evidence for you

The strawman was you claiming I said FGM was not a problem. It is. However it's a cultural tradition that predates Islam and was not a part of Islam originally though it's become associated with Islam probably through it's spread into Africa. It is most prevalent in a portion of Africa where both Christian and Muslim communities do it. It needs to be irradicated and in many countries it is now illegal or strictly curtailed. (Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It's a barbaric practice (yet it is often women who demand it) and it is decreasing in many areas fortunately.
In Kenya and Tanzania, women aged 45–49 years were three times more likely to have been cut than the 15–19 cohort. In Benin, Central African Republic, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria the figure for the 15–19 group had dropped by about half.[97] Prevalence rates in Chad, Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen remained roughly the same.[97] If the rate of decline continues, the number of women and girls affected by FGM in the key 29 countries will have increased by 2050 from 125 million to 196 million because of population growth.[96]

Coyote is lying again-----FGM follows islam----not just to Africa --it is even done in Pakistan----since islam got there.
Until very recently----the largest percentage of FGM victims per population----was Egyptian muslims ----the practice was
probably started in Egypt----spread to various parts of Africa and to Arabia------and thence followed islam----it is mentioned in the Koran (or hadiths-----if you say "Koran"---because
you read it in the Koran------propagandaists GOT YOU

very few Coptic Christians are victims of FGM. Denial
of the facts that I presented is Islamic historic revisionism
on par with the current claim that Jesus spoke arabic

From what I read, FGM has gone on at least 2000 years and probably started in Egypt and independently in some parts of Africa as part of puberty rituals. You're wrong about the Copts though. "The prevalence of FGM in the Copts is lower than that in Muslim Egyptian society but, nevertheless, it’s still high: 92% in Muslims and 74% in Copts, a difference of 18%." Source: PREVALENCE OF AND SUPPORT FOR FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION WITHIN THE COPTS OF EGYPT UNICEF REPORT 2013 ON COPTIC NATIONALISM

It is not in the Koran, and what is in the sparse hadith mentions is disputed. From a religious perspective it should be easy to stamp out.

ROFLMAO-----you claimed that they don't do it Egypt-----make up your mind-------yes "still high" means its happening----but with far less frequency than in the Islamic
population------right---you finally decided to agree with me
that it started in Egypt------gee thanks,, and from there spread to various lands in Africa and it is mentioned in the Koran/hadith damned book-----BTW---the overwhelming majority of persons now circumcised are muslims and the
practice TRAVELED with islam--------it did not travel with
Christianity-----or Hinduism ---or Buddhism-----ISLAAAAAM

I never claimed they didn't do it in Egypt. I specifically included Egypt as part of the eastern edge of the African belt where it is most prevalent. Go back and read my first post on the subject.

I don't consider 74% to be a low number or 18% to be far less. It's occurring among Egyption copts at a very high rate.

That ~70 % figure-----includes the elderly----when FGM was
actually an EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------the biggers obstacle
in stamping out the practice is that so many muslim clerics
still DEMAND it

As does the Islamic percentage. Egypt outlawed it in 2007 I believe.

FGM in primitive African tribes is something like a coming of
age "tribulation" horror. ----and, preceded islam-------just as it preceded islam in Arabia------but then ARAB customs
got around------via the GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC
CONQUEST-------try to cope Coyote

Yes, it preceded Islam.

of course male circumcision got around via the
GLORIOUS AGE OF JEWISH CONQUEST----
-----to wit---migration to the new world and to England
and the glorious advent of Hebrew National hot dogs

Hot dogs and circumcision....interesting juxtaposition...

 

[irosie91]

Ok...Readers Digest Version...you have no link to back up your "story"

I did not give you a link for the DHIMMI ORPHAN LAW EITHER------- your point?---------you did manage to find
it yourself--------by easy google-------but never had the decency to apologize for your filthy vulgar "LIAR" fart.

More kids are being subjected to both forms of filth -----that YOU DEFEND with your disgusting DENIALS

I didn't ask for a link for the orphan law.

You make claims, and then you can't support them so you lash out.

If you can't support your claim on genital mutilation, then admit you made it up. Or provide a source.

If FGM was not a problem as you claim then why has the UK passed a law making it illegal to remove a child from the UK for the purpose of FGM. The sentence is a mandatory prison term and removal of all children into care. This because the practise amongst muslims in the UK was on the rise and the NHS was refusing to do the operations. The back street practioners were bodging so many of the mutilations that the NHS were reporting 2 or 3 a week to the police. And yes it was predominantly a muslim thing, with a few African Christians carrying it out as well.

You've built a strawman here. Perhaps you have not read the entire exchange between Rosie and I.

First of all - I never claimed FGM was not a problem. What I said was:
FGM is an example of a CULTURAL tradition, not a RELIGIOUS tradition.
FGM is most prevalent in a stretch of Africa that includes Islamic and non-Islamic communities.

Rosie claimed that:
1) FGM is mentioned in the Koran
2) It is on the rise throught the Islamic world including Turkey

I asked her for proof of those two claims upon which she ducked, diverted and had a meltdown.

Now do you want to discard your strawman?

No strawman at all it has spread into the M.E and Arabian peninsular and became a sign of Islamic religious traditions. It is more widespread in Islamic cultures than it is in any other due to the misogyny in islam. Wait until later and I will provide the evidence for you

reality means nothing to coyote

 

[irosie91]

I wonder when the Hadiths referring to FGM----suddenly became "questionable and poorly translated" ----
FGM in Saudi Arabia is described as "prevalent"-----
I wonder how it got to that somewhat isolated highly
CONTROLLED land--------------maybe coyote will tell us
that LAWRENCE OF ARABIA introduced it.


when considering that issue----it is important to understand
that medical and criminal stats are supplied BY EACH
COUNTRY itself------for more than half the years since 1981 and the first descriptions of AIDS-------Saudi Arabia reported
its incidence as ZERO------even the muslims in medical conferences laughed------------Nobody is insane in muslim lands----unless they fail in their Islamic piety

 

[irosie91]

No strawman at all it has spread into the M.E and Arabian peninsular and became a sign of Islamic religious traditions. It is more widespread in Islamic cultures than it is in any other due to the misogyny in islam. Wait until later and I will provide the evidence for you

The strawman was you claiming I said FGM was not a problem. It is. However it's a cultural tradition that predates Islam and was not a part of Islam originally though it's become associated with Islam probably through it's spread into Africa. It is most prevalent in a portion of Africa where both Christian and Muslim communities do it. It needs to be irradicated and in many countries it is now illegal or strictly curtailed. (Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It's a barbaric practice (yet it is often women who demand it) and it is decreasing in many areas fortunately.
In Kenya and Tanzania, women aged 45–49 years were three times more likely to have been cut than the 15–19 cohort. In Benin, Central African Republic, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria the figure for the 15–19 group had dropped by about half.[97] Prevalence rates in Chad, Djibouti, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Mali, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen remained roughly the same.[97] If the rate of decline continues, the number of women and girls affected by FGM in the key 29 countries will have increased by 2050 from 125 million to 196 million because of population growth.[96]

Coyote is lying again-----FGM follows islam----not just to Africa --it is even done in Pakistan----since islam got there.
Until very recently----the largest percentage of FGM victims per population----was Egyptian muslims ----the practice was
probably started in Egypt----spread to various parts of Africa and to Arabia------and thence followed islam----it is mentioned in the Koran (or hadiths-----if you say "Koran"---because
you read it in the Koran------propagandaists GOT YOU

very few Coptic Christians are victims of FGM. Denial
of the facts that I presented is Islamic historic revisionism
on par with the current claim that Jesus spoke arabic

From what I read, FGM has gone on at least 2000 years and probably started in Egypt and independently in some parts of Africa as part of puberty rituals. You're wrong about the Copts though. "The prevalence of FGM in the Copts is lower than that in Muslim Egyptian society but, nevertheless, it’s still high: 92% in Muslims and 74% in Copts, a difference of 18%." Source: PREVALENCE OF AND SUPPORT FOR FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION WITHIN THE COPTS OF EGYPT UNICEF REPORT 2013 ON COPTIC NATIONALISM

It is not in the Koran, and what is in the sparse hadith mentions is disputed. From a religious perspective it should be easy to stamp out.

ROFLMAO-----you claimed that they don't do it Egypt-----make up your mind-------yes "still high" means its happening----but with far less frequency than in the Islamic
population------right---you finally decided to agree with me
that it started in Egypt------gee thanks,, and from there spread to various lands in Africa and it is mentioned in the Koran/hadith damned book-----BTW---the overwhelming majority of persons now circumcised are muslims and the
practice TRAVELED with islam--------it did not travel with
Christianity-----or Hinduism ---or Buddhism-----ISLAAAAAM

I never claimed they didn't do it in Egypt. I specifically included Egypt as part of the eastern edge of the African belt where it is most prevalent. Go back and read my first post on the subject.

I don't consider 74% to be a low number or 18% to be far less. It's occurring among Egyption copts at a very high rate.

That ~70 % figure-----includes the elderly----when FGM was
actually an EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------the biggers obstacle
in stamping out the practice is that so many muslim clerics
still DEMAND it

As does the Islamic percentage. Egypt outlawed it in 2007 I believe.

FGM in primitive African tribes is something like a coming of
age "tribulation" horror. ----and, preceded islam-------just as it preceded islam in Arabia------but then ARAB customs
got around------via the GLORIOUS AGE OF ISLAMIC
CONQUEST-------try to cope Coyote

Yes, it preceded Islam.

of course male circumcision got around via the
GLORIOUS AGE OF JEWISH CONQUEST----
-----to wit---migration to the new world and to England
and the glorious advent of Hebrew National hot dogs

Hot dogs and circumcision....interesting juxtaposition...

IT IS AN EGYPTIAN CUSTOM------from ancient times------
Egypt ventured into Africa to get slaves-----with the help
of arabs. I read all of your idiot posts including your attempt to divorce FGM from the muslim population there---
where it is very very prevalent------copts began giving it up
long before muslims did------of course copts were already doing it long before islam was invented-------but it is not for that reason that MUSLIMS started doing it-----muslims got it
from arab invaders-----and even before the advent of islam----
from BEDOUINS who---traveled from Arabia----even before the advent of islam and their "reversion" to that filth. The muslims of Arabia picked it up from Lawrence of Arabia------
RIGHT? primitive tent dwelling Bedouins in the Arabian
desert do it because Christians do it-------right?

 

[Coyote]

I wonder when the Hadiths referring to FGM----suddenly became "questionable and poorly translated" ----
FGM in Saudi Arabia is described as "prevalent"-----
I wonder how it got to that somewhat isolated highly
CONTROLLED land--------------maybe coyote will tell us
that LAWRENCE OF ARABIA introduced it.

It was in that initial link that I posted.

As to the second - most likely from Egypt.

when considering that issue----it is important to understand
that medical and criminal stats are supplied BY EACH
COUNTRY itself------for more than half the years since 1981 and the first descriptions of AIDS-------Saudi Arabia reported
its incidence as ZERO------even the muslims in medical conferences laughed------------Nobody is insane in muslim lands----unless they fail in their Islamic piety

They aren't necessarily reported by each country - they get reported by various human rights organizations as well.

Edited to add: but you might be right as to the overall difficulty in getting accurate information. Here's another article I found: IRIN humanitarian news and analysis from Africa Asia and the Middle East - updated daily

 

[irosie91]

I wonder when the Hadiths referring to FGM----suddenly became "questionable and poorly translated" ----
FGM in Saudi Arabia is described as "prevalent"-----
I wonder how it got to that somewhat isolated highly
CONTROLLED land--------------maybe coyote will tell us
that LAWRENCE OF ARABIA introduced it.

It was in that initial link that I posted.

As to the second - most likely from Egypt.

when considering that issue----it is important to understand
that medical and criminal stats are supplied BY EACH
COUNTRY itself------for more than half the years since 1981 and the first descriptions of AIDS-------Saudi Arabia reported
its incidence as ZERO------even the muslims in medical conferences laughed------------Nobody is insane in muslim lands----unless they fail in their Islamic piety

They aren't necessarily reported by each country - they get reported by various human rights organizations as well.

Edited to add: but you might be right as to the overall difficulty in getting accurate information. Here's another article I found: IRIN humanitarian news and analysis from Africa Asia and the Middle East - updated daily

wrong-----all WHO STATS----- come from the individual
countries which is why Saudi Arabia ----reported no AIDS to
the entertainment of all participants in AIDS conferences since 1981 -------criminal stats-----same thing-----

NGO's do not provide the stats as to how many crimes
are committed or how many are in jail or what is going
on in hospitals and clinics--------ESPECIALLY not in
Saudi Arabia. -----over there ------give out the real stats and you die

 

[irosie91]

PS what is "it" that appeared in what "link"-----
how about a citation for your allegation that the
Hadith which contains an allusion to FGM----
is "IN QUESTION"-----along with the date of
the "question"--------maybe Pickthall and ali Yusuf can RETRANSLATE their stuff

 

[Coyote]

Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East

Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.

It gives a pretty good explanation on the difering opinions of Islam on FGM and how it's intertwined with the culture.

It concludes: "Culture and Religion are both contributing to the prevalance of FGM. Thus, they must be adressed both at the same time."

So I stand corrected on the role Islam plays in the problem.

 

[irosie91]

Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East

Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.

It gives a pretty good explanation on the difering opinions of Islam on FGM and how it's intertwined with the culture.

It concludes: "Culture and Religion are both contributing to the prevalance of FGM. Thus, they must be adressed both at the same time."

So I stand corrected on the role Islam plays in the problem.

you are not at all "corrected"------were you corrected you would admit that the VASTLY OVERWHELMING majority of FGM-----are done by muslims on muslims--------you prefer for your own agenda to exaggerate the execeptions-----which are
the non muslims in today's world which copied the practice from muslims-------the exception to that situation would be
Egyptians who retain it as a custom which developed in ancient Egypt. In today's world even people of south east asia engage in this custom completely foreign to south east asia until MUSLIMS introduced it. -------cold beet borscht is a prominent part of JEWISH CUISINE<<< true
statement ---(even finicky me agreed to eat it as a child)---
jews did not invent it-------it originates in POLAND-----In the
US today------as 100 people walking in the street "you eat beet borscht with sour cream"-------the overwhelming majority who answer "yes" -----are jews--------it has become part of jewish culture just as FGM is part of Islam TODAY.

after you do that------tell your friends that CUMIN did not
exist in tacos until Europeans brought it------having to it from the middle east. -----------and tell people waiting on line to get
into the CURRY HOUSE ----capsaicin----is New to INDIA ----
Krishna never tasted it

Today
Capsaicin >>>>INDIAN
CUMIN >>> big part Mexican catholic cuisine
Potato Latkes >>> the Maccabees never did them
FGM ------MOSTLY muslim

never forget------all spice is Jamaican----but everyone
uses it now

 

[Phoenall]

Anyone interested in the details of the ancient Egyptian custom
of Female genital "modification"-----which spread to various parts of Africa and into Arabia in ancient times and is now almost entirely an Islamic custom------feel free to ask.
There are
many different techniques employed by both muslims and
by the few African non muslims who still engage in the
custom. Today there is some attempt to stop it-----
even amongst muslims------but there is also some resistence
to that trend-----it has been mandated in the HOLY CALIPHATE
for the sake of allah.

Anyone interested in confiscation of orphans under
Islamic law----feel free to ask-----my very own mother-in-law--
escaped that horror----way back in the 1930s. Historically
it is an interesting issue-----ATATURK had outlawed it-----
in his bid to rid the Ottoman empire of the filth of shariah----
but backwoods shariah shit holes even in the Ottoman
empire fought to preserve it. Shariah is growing in appeal
in Turkey------in fact it's Erdogan's election platform.

FGM is not prevalent in Turkey right now----but it does exist---when I find the article which I read regarding its
RESURGENCE-----I will let you guys know.

for Koran-------check it yourselves----if someone says "that's not Koran , that's Hadith"-----understand that such responses are BS--------no matter---it's what muslims
consider "holy". The allusion in the Koran(or hadiths)
is small----but definitely present
Based on some Archaeological finds
in the Middle east ----it seems to have been something
going on in Canaan----not surprising since it was started
in Egypt (or so they say)

You claimed it was in the Koran and it wasn't. It's in a few - very few Hadiths one of which is considered to be a poor source by Islamic scholars and the others are disputed by scholars as to their meaning. It should be stamped out, like Sati was but it's probably going to be harder in the rural/tribal areas and in Africa where it's culturally entrenched regardless of religion. What's sad is it is often women themselves demanding it for their daughters. Actually Rosie...I think we may be in agreement here.

You do know that all hadiths are said to be a poor source by Islamic clerics when they show the true nature of islam. Take the ones regarding Ayesha alone that the clerics claim

 

[Coyote]

Anyone interested in the details of the ancient Egyptian custom
of Female genital "modification"-----which spread to various parts of Africa and into Arabia in ancient times and is now almost entirely an Islamic custom------feel free to ask.
There are
many different techniques employed by both muslims and
by the few African non muslims who still engage in the
custom. Today there is some attempt to stop it-----
even amongst muslims------but there is also some resistence
to that trend-----it has been mandated in the HOLY CALIPHATE
for the sake of allah.

Anyone interested in confiscation of orphans under
Islamic law----feel free to ask-----my very own mother-in-law--
escaped that horror----way back in the 1930s. Historically
it is an interesting issue-----ATATURK had outlawed it-----
in his bid to rid the Ottoman empire of the filth of shariah----
but backwoods shariah shit holes even in the Ottoman
empire fought to preserve it. Shariah is growing in appeal
in Turkey------in fact it's Erdogan's election platform.

FGM is not prevalent in Turkey right now----but it does exist---when I find the article which I read regarding its
RESURGENCE-----I will let you guys know.

for Koran-------check it yourselves----if someone says "that's not Koran , that's Hadith"-----understand that such responses are BS--------no matter---it's what muslims
consider "holy". The allusion in the Koran(or hadiths)
is small----but definitely present
Based on some Archaeological finds
in the Middle east ----it seems to have been something
going on in Canaan----not surprising since it was started
in Egypt (or so they say)

You claimed it was in the Koran and it wasn't. It's in a few - very few Hadiths one of which is considered to be a poor source by Islamic scholars and the others are disputed by scholars as to their meaning. It should be stamped out, like Sati was but it's probably going to be harder in the rural/tribal areas and in Africa where it's culturally entrenched regardless of religion. What's sad is it is often women themselves demanding it for their daughters. Actually Rosie...I think we may be in agreement here.

You do know that all hadiths are said to be a poor source by Islamic clerics when they show the true nature of islam. Take the ones regarding Ayesha alone that the clerics claim

No. They are researched for authenticity by Islamic clerics and scholars - some are considered less accurate or authentic. Opinions can differ among schools of thought. The dispute about Ayesha's age uses a lot of historical events to track her age which lends credibility. Not all Hadith's are "equal" and everything was written after Mohammed's death was it not?

 

[Coyote]

Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East

Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.

It gives a pretty good explanation on the difering opinions of Islam on FGM and how it's intertwined with the culture.

It concludes: "Culture and Religion are both contributing to the prevalance of FGM. Thus, they must be adressed both at the same time."

So I stand corrected on the role Islam plays in the problem.

you are not at all "corrected"------were you corrected you would admit that the VASTLY OVERWHELMING majority of FGM-----are done by muslims on muslims--------you prefer for your own agenda to exaggerate the execeptions-----which are
the non muslims in today's world which copied the practice from muslims-------the exception to that situation would be

The practice predated Islam in many parts of the world. And in those parts of the world - it exists among all religious groups at a VERY HIGH rate. You tried to claim that it was rare among Copts but it clearly was not. It was common in Egypt well before Islam, and also in parts of Africa. It may have spread with Islam but it existed and "flourished" independent of Islam as well in those cultures.

 

[irosie91]

Anyone interested in the details of the ancient Egyptian custom
of Female genital "modification"-----which spread to various parts of Africa and into Arabia in ancient times and is now almost entirely an Islamic custom------feel free to ask.
There are
many different techniques employed by both muslims and
by the few African non muslims who still engage in the
custom. Today there is some attempt to stop it-----
even amongst muslims------but there is also some resistence
to that trend-----it has been mandated in the HOLY CALIPHATE
for the sake of allah.

Anyone interested in confiscation of orphans under
Islamic law----feel free to ask-----my very own mother-in-law--
escaped that horror----way back in the 1930s. Historically
it is an interesting issue-----ATATURK had outlawed it-----
in his bid to rid the Ottoman empire of the filth of shariah----
but backwoods shariah shit holes even in the Ottoman
empire fought to preserve it. Shariah is growing in appeal
in Turkey------in fact it's Erdogan's election platform.

FGM is not prevalent in Turkey right now----but it does exist---when I find the article which I read regarding its
RESURGENCE-----I will let you guys know.

for Koran-------check it yourselves----if someone says "that's not Koran , that's Hadith"-----understand that such responses are BS--------no matter---it's what muslims
consider "holy". The allusion in the Koran(or hadiths)
is small----but definitely present
Based on some Archaeological finds
in the Middle east ----it seems to have been something
going on in Canaan----not surprising since it was started
in Egypt (or so they say)

You claimed it was in the Koran and it wasn't. It's in a few - very few Hadiths one of which is considered to be a poor source by Islamic scholars and the others are disputed by scholars as to their meaning. It should be stamped out, like Sati was but it's probably going to be harder in the rural/tribal areas and in Africa where it's culturally entrenched regardless of religion. What's sad is it is often women themselves demanding it for their daughters. Actually Rosie...I think we may be in agreement here.

You do know that all hadiths are said to be a poor source by Islamic clerics when they show the true nature of islam. Take the ones regarding Ayesha alone that the clerics claim

No. They are researched for authenticity by Islamic clerics and scholars - some are considered less accurate or authentic. Opinions can differ among schools of thought. The dispute about Ayesha's age uses a lot of historical events to track her age which lends credibility. Not all Hadith's are "equal" and everything was written after Mohammed's death was it not?

if you imagine you are telling me something I have
not either read or been told ----by Islamic sources--
you are wrong. As to the Ayesha age debate----I have
also read that idiot sophistry-----and never cared. I have
never called Muhummad a pedophile------DANTE was in love with Beatrice and that fact never bothered me either

 

[irosie91]

Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East

Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.

It gives a pretty good explanation on the difering opinions of Islam on FGM and how it's intertwined with the culture.

It concludes: "Culture and Religion are both contributing to the prevalance of FGM. Thus, they must be adressed both at the same time."

So I stand corrected on the role Islam plays in the problem.

you are not at all "corrected"------were you corrected you would admit that the VASTLY OVERWHELMING majority of FGM-----are done by muslims on muslims--------you prefer for your own agenda to exaggerate the execeptions-----which are
the non muslims in today's world which copied the practice from muslims-------the exception to that situation would be

The practice predated Islam in many parts of the world. And in those parts of the world - it exists among all religious groups at a VERY HIGH rate. You tried to claim that it was rare among Copts but it clearly was not. It was common in Egypt well before Islam, and also in parts of Africa. It may have spread with Islam but it existed and "flourished" independent of Islam as well in those cultures.

what are "those cultures"? It is thought to have started
in Egypt------Egypt did have extensive contact with Africa thru
the slave trade-----REMEMBER?? ----so it spread to Africa ---PRE ISLAM ----it also spread to the major slave traders ----
the ARABIANS ----pre islam. It got to PAKISTAN VIA ISLAM It got to IRAN via islam------you still lose The only place it exist at a significant rate amongst religions other than islam-------is Egypt and the slave hunting grounds of
the arab slave traders. Zoroastrians and Greeks don't do it.
Today the OVERWHELMING majority of FGM 's are done
on muslims by muslims

 

[irosie91]

Hmmm...here's another good article on it:
Religion or Culture Stop FGM Middle East

Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.

However, on the village level, those who commit the practice offer a mix of cultural and religious reasons for the practice. Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.

It gives a pretty good explanation on the difering opinions of Islam on FGM and how it's intertwined with the culture.

It concludes: "Culture and Religion are both contributing to the prevalance of FGM. Thus, they must be adressed both at the same time."

So I stand corrected on the role Islam plays in the problem.

you are not at all "corrected"------were you corrected you would admit that the VASTLY OVERWHELMING majority of FGM-----are done by muslims on muslims--------you prefer for your own agenda to exaggerate the execeptions-----which are
the non muslims in today's world which copied the practice from muslims-------the exception to that situation would be

You tried to claim that it was rare among Copts but it clearly was not. It was common in Egypt well before Islam, and also in parts of Africa. It may have spread with Islam but it existed and "flourished" independent of Islam as well in those cultures.

from coyote "The practice predated Islam in many parts of the world. And in those parts of the world - it exists among all religious groups at a VERY HIGH rate.

wrong again------the jews of Alexandria Egypt-----
did not do it in ancient times when it was very popular
in Egypt The jews of Arabia did not do it ----the only
jews known to have so engaged (but with limited
prevalence) are the jews of Ethiopia-------Zoroastrians do
not do it ------there were lots of Zoroastrians in Arabia pre islam-------they did not pick up the habit but the Arabians did---which is why it exists IN ISLAM but not in Zoroastrianism----
you should get out more

 

[montelatici]

Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.

 

[irosie91]

Beta Israel practiced FGM. I hope that those that have gone to the U.S. and Israel have stopped.

they have stopped and did not do it as much as did the muslims of Ethiopia-------they have been OUT OF TOUCH with other jews for millennia and in a sense demonstrate the fact that jews---GENERALLY do not do FGM even in those lands where
the practice is PREVALENT (as it was in PRE ISLAMIC ARABIA) ------like shariah cesspits.. They even have a whole bunch of off the standard concepts of keeping kosher------etc etc Beta Israel is a kind of -----separate issue