Proof that AGW is bad science

[Crick]

When the dialogue drops into name calling then the goal changes from addressing a passionate issue and changes to stirring up bad feelings. OK, so lots of folks like bad feelings but the problem there is that it means we don't live as long.

I won't live that much longer and its extremely unlikely that my death will have anything to do with global warming. On the other hand, the lives of my children and grandchildren and their offspring will be hugely affected by global warming that could have been avoided. I view AGW denial as a threat to the well being of my children and that invokes feelings that are difficult to suppress. When I put serious thought and research into composing posts here, with well sourced data and illustrations only to receive cartoons and personal insults in response, it find it difficult to maintain my equilibrium.

My preference is that we consult in a discourse where we join forces and together search for the truth.

I know this will sound off-putting but I have to ask why. The question of whether or not the planet is warming and whether or not human activity is the cause, is completely settled. Really. Searching for the truth on this question is precisely akin to "searching for the truth" about evolution, plate tectonics or the germ theory of disease. Now if you simply want to talk about the subject, share knowledge and thoughts, please carry on.

We can say what we want about AGW but we've got to agree that it's an issue that affects virtually everyone one way or the other. My take is that together we should be able to apply the scientific method and understand the nature of the issue.

Certainly. Just keep in mind that a great many scientists have already applied the scientific method to every imaginable aspect of this question. At this point, the best lay application of the scientific method might be to compare the climate science of the mainstream to the climate science of AGW deniers. And that - with widely varying appropriateness in the Method's application - is the gist of the flaming/trolling/screaming/ad hominem argument that you find here, already in progress.

If you're willing to look into this w/ me I'd be grateful. Lot's of folks are concerned about it & its affects can't be ignored.

My apologies for having, essentially, blown you off. You've been on this forum for some time and I had to assume you were completely familiar with the nature of almost all discussions that take place here. That made it difficult to avoid seeing your request for civil dialogue on the topic as disingenuousness.

My thinking is that for the AGW premise to be valid we should be able to see how the temperatures have risen, and how the warming is harmful. Please let me know if you're willing to work w/ me on this.

Global temperature data have been posted here hundreds, if not thousands of times. The discussions on that warming and the harm it can and will cause have been virtually endless. Can you give us more specific queries?

 

[Crick]

Here is a graph of global average temperature over time from multiple sources

This is a Wikimedia graphic whose sources are listed at Global temperature record - Wikipedia

HadCRUT is the University of East Anglia's (UK) Hadley Climate Research Unit Temperature
NOAA is the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration
Berkeley Earth (aka BEST) is a climate research organization formed at UC Berkeley in response to a concern that global temperatures were not being properly or accurately determined
NASA GISTEMP is GISS Surface Temperature Analysis. GISS is the Goddard Institute for Space Studies
Japan Met (aka JMA) is the Japanese national meteorological agency
ECMWF is the European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts. ERA5 is the fifth generation ECMWF atmospheric reanalysis of the global climate

 

[ding]

Here is a graph of global average temperature over time from multiple sources

This is a Wikimedia graphic whose sources are listed at Global temperature record - Wikipedia

HadCRUT is the University of East Anglia's (UK) Hadley Climate Research Unit Temperature
NOAA is the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration
Berkeley Earth (aka BEST) is a climate research organization formed at UC Berkeley in response to a concern that global temperatures were not being properly or accurately determined
NASA GISTEMP is GISS Surface Temperature Analysis. GISS is the Goddard Institute for Space Studies
Japan Met (aka JMA) is the Japanese national meteorological agency
ECMWF is the European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts. ERA5 is the fifth generation ECMWF atmospheric reanalysis of the global climate

Global temperature reconstructions are garbage.

 

[ding]

I won't live that much longer and its extremely unlikely that my death will have anything to do with global warming. On the other hand, the lives of my children and grandchildren and their offspring will be hugely affected by global warming that could have been avoided.

Then maybe you should be arguing against urbanization and deforestation.

 

[Crick]

When the dialogue drops into name calling then the goal changes from addressing a passionate issue and changes to stirring up bad feelings. OK, so lots of folks like bad feelings but the problem there is that it means we don't live as long.

My preference is that we consult in a discourse where we join forces and together search for the truth. We can say what we want about AGW but we've got to agree that it's an issue that affects virtually everyone one way or the other. My take is that together we should be able to apply the scientific method and understand the nature of the issue. If you're willing to look into this w/ me I'd be grateful. Lot's of folks are concerned about it & its affects can't be ignored.

My thinking is that for the AGW premise to be valid we should be able to see how the temperatures have risen, and how the warming is harmful. Please let me know if you're willing to work w/ me on this.

One of the most significant and dramatic effects from global warming is sea level rise. The oceans are rising from two primary causes: thermal expansion and melting land-based ice. Here are some data illustrating the problem.

GLOBAL SEA LEVEL, 1993 - PRESENT

2023_rel1 | Sea Level Research Group

Added Sentinel-6 MF

sealevel.colorado.edu

OCEAN HEAT CONTENT, 1960 - PRESENT

Karina von Schuckmann, et al. - https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/1675/2023/essd-15-1675-2023-f08.png

ARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT, 1979 - 2023

May | 2023 | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis

nsidc.org

ARCTIC SEA ICE VOLUME, 1979 - 2022

ANTARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT, 1979 - 2023

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/21/world/antarctic-sea-ice-record-low-climate-intl/index.html (data from NSIDC.org)

MASS BALANCE, GREENLAND AND ANTARCTICA, 1992 - 2022

Climate Change Indicators: Ice Sheets | US EPA

This indicator examines the balance between snow accumulation and melting in the ice sheets that cover Greenland and Antarctica.

www.epa.gov

 

[HikerGuy83]

I find it bewildering that CO2 levels at Mona Loa seem to have become the world standard. Mona Loa is often very high in CO2 and other greenhouse gases as a result of emissions from two nearby active volcanoes. The miasma of volcanic gases at Mona Loa even has a name. It is called vog. If an honest accounting were desired wouldn't it make sense to take the readings at a sight almost anywhere else in the world with more average CO2 concentrations? I suspect this is just one more of the glaring dishonest factors that mar the theory of anthropogenic global warming.

I would guess there are multiple sites where samples are taken.

I'd just have to believe we are not going APE **** over one location.

 

[Crick]

I would guess there are multiple sites where samples are taken.

I'd just have to believe we are not going APE **** over one location.

There are multiple sites but the concern that Mauna Loa is contaminated by volcanic... emissions, is an well worn point. I haven't read an article on it in a while but I think the station is quite high, well above any of the active vents and in the stream of uncontaminated air coming across the Pacific.

 

[ding]

One of the most significant and dramatic effects from global warming is sea level rise. The oceans are rising from two primary causes: thermal expansion and melting land-based ice. Here are some data illustrating the problem.

GLOBAL SEA LEVEL, 1993 - PRESENT

2023_rel1 | Sea Level Research Group

Added Sentinel-6 MF

sealevel.colorado.edu

OCEAN HEAT CONTENT, 1960 - PRESENT

Karina von Schuckmann, et al. - https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/1675/2023/essd-15-1675-2023-f08.png

ARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT, 1979 - 2023

May | 2023 | Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis

nsidc.org

ARCTIC SEA ICE VOLUME, 1979 - 2022

ANTARCTIC SEA ICE EXTENT, 1979 - 2023

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/21/world/antarctic-sea-ice-record-low-climate-intl/index.html (data from NSIDC.org)

MASS BALANCE, GREENLAND AND ANTARCTICA, 1992 - 2022

Climate Change Indicators: Ice Sheets | US EPA

This indicator examines the balance between snow accumulation and melting in the ice sheets that cover Greenland and Antarctica.

www.epa.gov

Happens every interglacial period.

 

[BackAgain]

Climate Change is real and it’s here now

The climate may change over time. That is a different claim than saying that humans are somehow the cause of climate change.

 

[Crick]

I would guess there are multiple sites where samples are taken.

I'd just have to believe we are not going APE **** over one location.

CO2 measurements are taken at several locations but poster Innocynioc's criticisms of Mauna Loa are not supported and are easily refuted. He's not the first to suspect the are must be filled with volcanic gases.