Pure Spirit? Really?

[zaangalewa]

... All of which is physical. All you're doing is confirming that, if he exists, the bible confirms that God is a physical being. If he is physical, then it should be possible to discover objective evidence of his existence.

Aha - that's your problem: You like to crucify Jesus. A little late to try to do so, isn't it?

 

[EGR one]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

They heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden. Think about that. It is not necessarily about audible footsteps.

They were still in the realm where God is perceptible to human beings. The connection between them through the only thing incorporeal about man, the conscious mind, was not yet broken.

Yeah...think about that. It makes no sense. This is why the other, more accurate versions of the bible, translate the original Hebrew as sound not voice. Now, if we're going to spend all of our time arguing the proper translations, then we're going to get nowhere.

Let me put it this way. If you cannot perceive the living God with your incorporeal mind a microscope won't help.

You might as well be seeking scientific proof that three pigs can build houses.

You really need to quit using fables, and fairy tales as your analogies. Because that is rather the whole point of us atheists - that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of fables, and fairy tales written by men, and is no more reliable as evidence of anything than any other work of fiction.

After years of listening to you atheists, I pretty well understand your whole point. What I do not understand is why you feel it is necessary to constantly repeat your whole point. Who are you trying to convince of your beliefs? You or me?

 

[EGR one]

The explanation is simple. That came from ancient writings from a time when stories of Gods and supernatural occurrences were taken at face value. No one questioned whether you could actually hear a supposed god walking. Later, when all those ancient manuscripts were compiled, and people could compare the obvious discrepancies,they began making up things to explain those discrepancies away. There are lots of discrepancies throughout the Bible, and even more convoluted beliefs to try to make them all fit together.

Sooo...the shit was just made up. And we're supposed to take the bible seriously, why?

I certainly take the Bible seriously, but not literally. There is a lot of honest guidance and comfort to be found in the bible. I use it for that. If you choose to take it literally, that's fine, but my life experience and logic doesn't allow me to do that. If it is more than I think it is, I hope someone will show me where I am wrong. It would be great to just let someone, or something make my decisions for me, and not have to worry if things will turn out for the best.

Okay. However, that makes the bible no different than the Bhagavad Gita, the writings of Sun Tsu, or any of a thousand other self help books. And it remains useless as a source for "proving" the existence of God.

Proving the existence of God is exactly the same as proving that God does not exist. There is no evidence either way, and that is why we take it on faith. You have faith that God does not exist, and I have faith that God does exist. I have no problem with your faith, why do you have a problem with mine?

 

[ding]

The typical argument for why no objective, verifiable evidence of the existence of God is that God is a being of pure spirit, and science can only observe the physical.

Okay. So, someone explain Genesis 3:8.

Do you understand the concept of allegory?

 

[ding]

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION ONE
"I BELIEVE" - "WE BELIEVE"

CHAPTER TWO
GOD COMES TO MEET MAN

ARTICLE 3
SACRED SCRIPTURE

I. CHRIST - THE UNIQUE WORD OF SACRED SCRIPTURE

101 In order to reveal himself to men, in the condescension of his goodness God speaks to them in human words: "Indeed the words of God, expressed in the words of men, are in every way like human language, just as the Word of the eternal Father, when he took on himself the flesh of human weakness, became like men."63

102 Through all the words of Sacred Scripture, God speaks only one single Word, his one Utterance in whom he expresses himself completely:64

You recall that one and the same Word of God extends throughout Scripture, that it is one and the same Utterance that resounds in the mouths of all the sacred writers, since he who was in the beginning God with God has no need of separate syllables; for he is not subject to time.65
103 For this reason, the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord's Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God's Word and Christ's Body.66

104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, "but as what it really is, the word of God".67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68

II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."74

III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75

110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78

112 1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80
113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God's plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ's victory and also of Christian Baptism.84

2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction".85

3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, "leading"). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:

The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
119 "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88
But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89

 

[Carl in Michigan]

of

Not even going to bother responding to that bullshit. Instead, I'll just wait for someone to actually respond to my OP.

Matter and energy are manifestations of spirit. God and the Angels can and do take on human form occasionally.