Question about Noah.

[Hollie]

Other cultures gave flood tales.

Here's another opportunity not to sidestep the problem of other cultures having no record of a global flood that coincided with the biblical Ark tale.

Why did the Egyptians not record a global flood?

I think missed the part of the article I linked that identified the absurdity of a wooden boat as described in the Ark tale. From the link:

"..... Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent separation between the joints, especially in the heavy seas that the Ark would have encountered. The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was 450 feet long [ Gen. 6:15]. Could an ark that size be made seaworthy?

I gave you many examples of cultures that spoke of a global flood. I don't know why the Egyptians either did or didn't. The point is that many did.

As far a wooden ship taking heavy seas, even Columbus rode out a hurricane losing the Pinta. Of course wooden ships can take heavy seas. Who knows really whether the ark utilized any metal or not. Tubal Cain was a worker in brass and other metals. There was certainly some knowledge of working with metals long before Noah built the ark.

Another sidestep.

Why did the Egyptians, and the Maya never have a record of the biblical flood?

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

 

[the_human_being]

Unless we simply apply common sense.

Common sense tells me that were the flood simply a local thing, the people could have simply continued to walk away from the rising water until they escaped it up a mountain or upon reaching an area that was not to be flooded.

Common sense also tells me that there would have been no need for any birds to be taken on board the ark. The birds could have simply flow to an area beyond the flood. The animals also could have moved to an area outside the flood line.

Common sense says their lings would have exploded from the resulting atmospheric pressure if the water had threatened the mountains.

The waters certainly threatened the mountains for they were covered. It was a global flood.

 

[Hollie]

Another sidestep.

Why did the Egyptians, and the Maya never have a record of the biblical flood?

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Do the Philadelphians have a flood story? How about New Yorkers? No, I have stated before, I really don't care.

That makes no sense.

I can understand that you don't care because to actually address the contradiction would be devastating to the biblical tales. It's just a fact that a great many cultures existed at the time of the biblical flood and they managed, somehow, to have survived that event.

Doesn't accuracy and integrity cause you any concern regarding some grossly contradictory recordings of history?

LOL!! There are tons of things that don't make sense to you Hollie.

That's true. Claims to man-made inventions of magic / supernatural gawds make no sense to me, especially when the worshippers of those gawds are unable to account for even the most basic of attributes describing those gawds.

 

[Hollie]

So there was no global flood as identified in the bibles. I'm not sure where you got your "83%" number, but the bibles don't identify any regional flood.

The bible says "whole earth" which comes from the Hebrew "kol erets" which means local area or region unless a specific place is named immediately before "kol erets". There are instances in the bible where "kol erets" is referring to the entire planet and it names the planet right before "kol erets" or uses different wording. This is not the case with the flood. With the flood, the bible says the whole region was under water, which is perfectly possible given that the region in question is subject to frequint flooding even in modern times.

Unless we simply apply common sense.

Common sense tells me that were the flood simply a local thing, the people could have simply continued to walk away from the rising water until they escaped it up a mountain or upon reaching an area that was not to be flooded.

Common sense also tells me that there would have been no need for any birds to be taken on board the ark. The birds could have simply flow to an area beyond the flood. The animals also could have moved to an area outside the flood line.

Which makes the Ark tale unnecessary and superfluous.

 

[the_human_being]

I gave you many examples of cultures that spoke of a global flood. I don't know why the Egyptians either did or didn't. The point is that many did.

As far a wooden ship taking heavy seas, even Columbus rode out a hurricane losing the Pinta. Of course wooden ships can take heavy seas. Who knows really whether the ark utilized any metal or not. Tubal Cain was a worker in brass and other metals. There was certainly some knowledge of working with metals long before Noah built the ark.

Another sidestep.

Why did the Egyptians, and the Maya never have a record of the biblical flood?

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

 

[the_human_being]

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Do the Philadelphians have a flood story? How about New Yorkers? No, I have stated before, I really don't care.

That makes no sense.

I can understand that you don't care because to actually address the contradiction would be devastating to the biblical tales. It's just a fact that a great many cultures existed at the time of the biblical flood and they managed, somehow, to have survived that event.

Doesn't accuracy and integrity cause you any concern regarding some grossly contradictory recordings of history?

LOL!! There are tons of things that don't make sense to you Hollie.

That's true. Claims to man-made inventions of magic / supernatural gawds make no sense to me, especially when the worshippers of those gawds are unable to account for even the most basic of attributes describing those gawds.

The fact that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience doesn't satisfy your definition of attributes?

 

[Hollie]

Other cultures gave flood tales.

Here's another opportunity not to sidestep the problem of other cultures having no record of a global flood that coincided with the biblical Ark tale.

Why did the Egyptians not record a global flood?

I think missed the part of the article I linked that identified the absurdity of a wooden boat as described in the Ark tale. From the link:

"..... Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent separation between the joints, especially in the heavy seas that the Ark would have encountered. The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was 450 feet long [ Gen. 6:15]. Could an ark that size be made seaworthy?

I gave you many examples of cultures that spoke of a global flood. I don't know why the Egyptians either did or didn't. The point is that many did.

As far a wooden ship taking heavy seas, even Columbus rode out a hurricane losing the Pinta. Of course wooden ships can take heavy seas. Who knows really whether the ark utilized any metal or not. Tubal Cain was a worker in brass and other metals. There was certainly some knowledge of working with metals long before Noah built the ark.

We have no factual data that Noah built an Ark.

Other than biblical tales and fables, what evidence is there of Noah's Ark?

From my linked article:

How was the fossil record sorted in an order convenient for evolution? Ecological zonation, hydrodynamic sorting, and differential escape fail to explain:

• the extremely good sorting observed. Why didn't at least one dinosaur make it to the high ground with the elephants?
• the relative positions of plants and other non-motile life. (Yun, 1989, describes beautifully preserved algae from Late Precambrian sediments. Why don't any modern-looking plants appear that low in the geological column?)
• why some groups of organisms, such as mollusks, are found in many geologic strata.
• why organisms (such as brachiopods) which are very similar hydrodynamically (all nearly the same size, shape, and weight) are still perfectly sorted.
• why extinct animals which lived in the same niches as present animals didn't survive as well. Why did no pterodons make it to high ground?
• how coral reefs hundreds of feet thick and miles long were preserved intact with other fossils below them.
• why small organisms dominate the lower strata, whereas fluid mechanics says they would sink slower and thus end up in upper strata.
• why artifacts such as footprints and burrows are also sorted. [Crimes & Droser, 1992]
• why no human artifacts are found except in the very uppermost strata. If, at the time of the Flood, the earth was overpopulated by people with technology for shipbuilding, why were none of their tools or buildings mixed with trilobite or dinosaur fossils?
• why different parts of the same organisms are sorted together. Pollen and spores are found in association with the trunks, leaves, branches, and roots produced by the same plants [Stewart, 1983].
• why ecological information is consistent within but not between layers. Fossil pollen is one of the more important indicators of different levels of strata. Each plant has different and distinct pollen, and, by telling which plants produced the fossil pollen, it is easy to see what the climate was like in different strata. Was the pollen hydraulically sorted by the flood water so that the climatic evidence is different for each layer?

A lot of what you post here and assume to be from this earth age were clearly from the first earth age. There is ONE world. We are living in the second earth age, some say the third for they count the time from the Bible's creation week to Noah as a second earth age and the time from Noah to now as a third earth age. It makes little difference. I simply count two with the Bible's creation week being the same one as this one in which we live because not everyone was destroyed, Noah and his family (8) crossed over. This present earth age is some 6,000 years in existence. The previous earth age, when the earth was originally created was according to science, some 4.5 billion years ago. I say it was even before that.

Who cares about pollen? Your own DNA carries a digital signature that is so complicated and so unique that it had to be of intelligent design.

Where did you get this conception of multiple earth ages?

Similarly, where did you get the conception that DNA is so complicated it had to be of "intelligent design". That's boilerplate christan fundamentalism and Is totally unsupported.

Surely even you have heard of "timelines". We establish timelines for many things. The Bronze Age is a timeline, the Iron Age is a timeline. It's common practice.

This is not my original link to the DNA thing I previously posted but it will serve the same purpose. Intelligent Design

Intelligent design is not a theory. It's another name for christian fundamentalism. It is not a theory that meets any standard relative to the Scientific Method. It has not gained currency in any scientific field because it has no connection with the standards that science is held to. We have specific tools that allow us to discriminate between viable theories and those that are not. The discipline of the Scientific Method is the single most powerful and productive tool to discriminate between viable theories and those which are not. The tools of the Scientific Method are advancing of the human search for knowledge because these tools actually work. While never providing “proof,” they demonstrably move us incrementally towards objective truth. If they did not, then science would not have changed our world as it has, for better or worse.

The tools that science uses to discriminate between good theories and bad ones are twofold; evidence and reason. A theory that has vast amounts of evidence in its support, and also makes useful predictions or retrodictions when reasoning from it is a viable theory. A religious claim in a burqa of lies called "intelligent design" which has no evidence, makes no predictions and simply appeals to ancient fears and superstitions is not a viable theory.

And this is how we discriminate between viable theories vs. religious claims that appeal only to emotion and fear.

My preference is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. You preference is based (as you explicitly define) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

 

[Hollie]

Another sidestep.

Why did the Egyptians, and the Maya never have a record of the biblical flood?

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

 

[Hollie]

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Do the Philadelphians have a flood story? How about New Yorkers? No, I have stated before, I really don't care.

That makes no sense.

I can understand that you don't care because to actually address the contradiction would be devastating to the biblical tales. It's just a fact that a great many cultures existed at the time of the biblical flood and they managed, somehow, to have survived that event.

Doesn't accuracy and integrity cause you any concern regarding some grossly contradictory recordings of history?

LOL!! There are tons of things that don't make sense to you Hollie.

That's true. Claims to man-made inventions of magic / supernatural gawds make no sense to me, especially when the worshippers of those gawds are unable to account for even the most basic of attributes describing those gawds.

The fact that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience doesn't satisfy your definition of attributes?

Those are attributes of the gawds that are shared by many inventions of gawds.

If you drill down on this, why are your gawds simply reflections of earlier inventions of gawds? Of what use or need are gawds who are uninvolved? Why the requirement to opt for a sentient, intelligent, and somehow "alive" being-- what's the point? To satisfy some anthropomorphic desire? Human egotism?

There is little difference between the natural Big Bang paradigm and a “Gawds Who Are Nonexistent” paradigm. With the former you have causal "omnipotence" -- nothing is as all powerful as all of existence (i.e., gravity and the speed of light are omnipotent). But that's all you have. No "omniscience" and no "omni benevolence" or any of those extraneous human-ego attributes that you and other inventors of religions have slathered your gawds with. So why opt for the latter, and then go assigning it characteristics that deconstruct the very thing you opt for?

An invisible, undetectable, unknown and completely and perfectly uninvolved entity is synonymous with "Nothingness". So why give this nothingness human attributes?

 

[the_human_being]

I gave you many examples of cultures that spoke of a global flood. I don't know why the Egyptians either did or didn't. The point is that many did.

As far a wooden ship taking heavy seas, even Columbus rode out a hurricane losing the Pinta. Of course wooden ships can take heavy seas. Who knows really whether the ark utilized any metal or not. Tubal Cain was a worker in brass and other metals. There was certainly some knowledge of working with metals long before Noah built the ark.

We have no factual data that Noah built an Ark.

Other than biblical tales and fables, what evidence is there of Noah's Ark?

From my linked article:

How was the fossil record sorted in an order convenient for evolution? Ecological zonation, hydrodynamic sorting, and differential escape fail to explain:

• the extremely good sorting observed. Why didn't at least one dinosaur make it to the high ground with the elephants?
• the relative positions of plants and other non-motile life. (Yun, 1989, describes beautifully preserved algae from Late Precambrian sediments. Why don't any modern-looking plants appear that low in the geological column?)
• why some groups of organisms, such as mollusks, are found in many geologic strata.
• why organisms (such as brachiopods) which are very similar hydrodynamically (all nearly the same size, shape, and weight) are still perfectly sorted.
• why extinct animals which lived in the same niches as present animals didn't survive as well. Why did no pterodons make it to high ground?
• how coral reefs hundreds of feet thick and miles long were preserved intact with other fossils below them.
• why small organisms dominate the lower strata, whereas fluid mechanics says they would sink slower and thus end up in upper strata.
• why artifacts such as footprints and burrows are also sorted. [Crimes & Droser, 1992]
• why no human artifacts are found except in the very uppermost strata. If, at the time of the Flood, the earth was overpopulated by people with technology for shipbuilding, why were none of their tools or buildings mixed with trilobite or dinosaur fossils?
• why different parts of the same organisms are sorted together. Pollen and spores are found in association with the trunks, leaves, branches, and roots produced by the same plants [Stewart, 1983].
• why ecological information is consistent within but not between layers. Fossil pollen is one of the more important indicators of different levels of strata. Each plant has different and distinct pollen, and, by telling which plants produced the fossil pollen, it is easy to see what the climate was like in different strata. Was the pollen hydraulically sorted by the flood water so that the climatic evidence is different for each layer?

A lot of what you post here and assume to be from this earth age were clearly from the first earth age. There is ONE world. We are living in the second earth age, some say the third for they count the time from the Bible's creation week to Noah as a second earth age and the time from Noah to now as a third earth age. It makes little difference. I simply count two with the Bible's creation week being the same one as this one in which we live because not everyone was destroyed, Noah and his family (8) crossed over. This present earth age is some 6,000 years in existence. The previous earth age, when the earth was originally created was according to science, some 4.5 billion years ago. I say it was even before that.

Who cares about pollen? Your own DNA carries a digital signature that is so complicated and so unique that it had to be of intelligent design.

Where did you get this conception of multiple earth ages?

Similarly, where did you get the conception that DNA is so complicated it had to be of "intelligent design". That's boilerplate christan fundamentalism and Is totally unsupported.

Surely even you have heard of "timelines". We establish timelines for many things. The Bronze Age is a timeline, the Iron Age is a timeline. It's common practice.

This is not my original link to the DNA thing I previously posted but it will serve the same purpose. Intelligent Design

Intelligent design is not a theory. It's another name for christian fundamentalism. It is not a theory that meets any standard relative to the Scientific Method. It has not gained currency in any scientific field because it has no connection with the standards that science is held to. We have specific tools that allow us to discriminate between viable theories and those that are not. The discipline of the Scientific Method is the single most powerful and productive tool to discriminate between viable theories and those which are not. The tools of the Scientific Method are advancing of the human search for knowledge because these tools actually work. While never providing “proof,” they demonstrably move us incrementally towards objective truth. If they did not, then science would not have changed our world as it has, for better or worse.

The tools that science uses to discriminate between good theories and bad ones are twofold; evidence and reason. A theory that has vast amounts of evidence in its support, and also makes useful predictions or retrodictions when reasoning from it is a viable theory. A religious claim in a burqa of lies called "intelligent design" which has no evidence, makes no predictions and simply appeals to ancient fears and superstitions is not a viable theory.

And this is how we discriminate between viable theories vs. religious claims that appeal only to emotion and fear.

My preference is based on using the tools of evidence and reason that allow any objective analyst to discriminate between my position and yours. You preference is based (as you explicitly define) purely on which best fits your a priori religious commitment.

Well, Albert Einstein believed in intelligent design. That's good enough for me.

 

[the_human_being]

Do the Philadelphians have a flood story? How about New Yorkers? No, I have stated before, I really don't care.

That makes no sense.

I can understand that you don't care because to actually address the contradiction would be devastating to the biblical tales. It's just a fact that a great many cultures existed at the time of the biblical flood and they managed, somehow, to have survived that event.

Doesn't accuracy and integrity cause you any concern regarding some grossly contradictory recordings of history?

LOL!! There are tons of things that don't make sense to you Hollie.

That's true. Claims to man-made inventions of magic / supernatural gawds make no sense to me, especially when the worshippers of those gawds are unable to account for even the most basic of attributes describing those gawds.

The fact that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience doesn't satisfy your definition of attributes?

Those are attributes of the gawds that are shared by many inventions of gawds.

If you drill down on this, why are your gawds simply reflections of earlier inventions of gawds? Of what use or need are gawds who are uninvolved? Why the requirement to opt for a sentient, intelligent, and somehow "alive" being-- what's the point? To satisfy some anthropomorphic desire? Human egotism?

There is little difference between the natural Big Bang paradigm and a “Gawds Who Are Nonexistent” paradigm. With the former you have causal "omnipotence" -- nothing is as all powerful as all of existence (i.e., gravity and the speed of light are omnipotent). But that's all you have. No "omniscience" and no "omni benevolence" or any of those extraneous human-ego attributes that you and other inventors of religions have slathered your gawds with. So why opt for the latter, and then go assigning it characteristics that deconstruct the very thing you opt for?

An invisible, undetectable, unknown and completely and perfectly uninvolved entity is synonymous with "Nothingness". So why give this nothingness human attributes?

LOL!! I fully support a "Big Bang" theory. I believe God spoke and (BANG!!!) it was so. He created your gravity, your speed of light, all your laws of physics.
Your "science" cannot even define what is thought. Science is unable to explain how the brain functions. Actually, science cannot even cure the common cold.
Your Theory of Evolution is a theory of decay, dying, and destruction. It is a theory of chaos. Even Neanderthal man had a longer lifespan than we have. Man has steadily evolved downward, now having a lifespan of about 78 years.

 

[the_human_being]

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

Nonsense right back at you. You even had the Mayans before the flood. I can't count on anything you say. One has to check out all your wild claims.

 

[the_human_being]

This is what the bible says:
"I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish."
or this: "So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. "

Exactly. Nowhere in what you quoted did it say the entire planet. It just says 'earth', which means land, dirt. The people of Noah's time had no concept of what a planet even is to then make a story about one. Psalms 104;9 verifies that the flood was not global. The planet was completely covered in water only once, before any dry land first appeared millions of years ago.

Geez, you're fucking dense. God's going to destroy all the land and dirt and all living, breathing things on it. That means the entire planet. It couldn't be any clearer.

Psalms 104;9 says it wasn't a global event, so if you're taking the bible at face value then it was not a global event, and if you're not taking the bible at face value then it doesn't matter the bible says at all.

Mind explaining how Psalms 104.9 actually says any such thing at all?

 

[the_human_being]

Holly, I really don't care why they didn't. Many others did. Remember the Epic of Gilgamesh? That one is well documented. That came from the Mesopotamia Valley and follows the Biblical account amazingly close.

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

Prove it.

 

[Hollie]

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

Nonsense right back at you. You even had the Mayans before the flood. I can't count on anything you say. One has to check out all your wild claims.

So go check them out.

In the meantime, explain how existing civilizations / cultures existing at the time of the biblical Ark tale have no record of any global flood.

 

[Hollie]

That makes no sense.

I can understand that you don't care because to actually address the contradiction would be devastating to the biblical tales. It's just a fact that a great many cultures existed at the time of the biblical flood and they managed, somehow, to have survived that event.

Doesn't accuracy and integrity cause you any concern regarding some grossly contradictory recordings of history?

LOL!! There are tons of things that don't make sense to you Hollie.

That's true. Claims to man-made inventions of magic / supernatural gawds make no sense to me, especially when the worshippers of those gawds are unable to account for even the most basic of attributes describing those gawds.

The fact that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience doesn't satisfy your definition of attributes?

Those are attributes of the gawds that are shared by many inventions of gawds.

If you drill down on this, why are your gawds simply reflections of earlier inventions of gawds? Of what use or need are gawds who are uninvolved? Why the requirement to opt for a sentient, intelligent, and somehow "alive" being-- what's the point? To satisfy some anthropomorphic desire? Human egotism?

There is little difference between the natural Big Bang paradigm and a “Gawds Who Are Nonexistent” paradigm. With the former you have causal "omnipotence" -- nothing is as all powerful as all of existence (i.e., gravity and the speed of light are omnipotent). But that's all you have. No "omniscience" and no "omni benevolence" or any of those extraneous human-ego attributes that you and other inventors of religions have slathered your gawds with. So why opt for the latter, and then go assigning it characteristics that deconstruct the very thing you opt for?

An invisible, undetectable, unknown and completely and perfectly uninvolved entity is synonymous with "Nothingness". So why give this nothingness human attributes?

LOL!! I fully support a "Big Bang" theory. I believe God spoke and (BANG!!!) it was so. He created your gravity, your speed of light, all your laws of physics.
Your "science" cannot even define what is thought. Science is unable to explain how the brain functions. Actually, science cannot even cure the common cold.
Your Theory of Evolution is a theory of decay, dying, and destruction. It is a theory of chaos. Even Neanderthal man had a longer lifespan than we have. Man has steadily evolved downward, now having a lifespan of about 78 years.

Actually, science, with the assistance of modern medicine can explain a great many things about the function of the brain.

And, the Theory of Evolution is about making predictions that can be verified.

Don't let fear and ignorance rule your life.

 

[Hollie]

You don't care why the Egyptians, and the Maya never had a record of the biblical flood? That's remarkable. How is it that there is archeological data from many civilizations that somehow survived a global flood? How do you reconcile that?

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

Prove it.

Already did.

 

[the_human_being]

Well, I really don't know what to tell you except that I truly really could care less. Your argument falls on sand is why I don't care.

Wikipedia says the Mayan Civilization (that's a joke) came about around 2000 BC. That means that civilization (same joke) came about some 300 years after the flood. We created the United States in less time.

Your Egyptians control their own history. The Egyptians base their history on chronology of their pharaohs or kings. They have always gotten them confused since many of them had the same name and they had so many. They made everybody a kind. I believe even Job was made a king in Egypt. They had greater kings and lesser kings. If you owned three camels you were a greater king. Two camels got you a lesser kingship.

The Mayans do tend to prove the Chaos Theory of Evolution. They became heathens. They got into cannibalism and the priests skinned out people and dressed themselves in the skins. They finally about died out. They probably got hold of some bad hamburger.

All of these people hated God. The reason given for building the Tower of Babel was that they didn't trust God's promise not to send another flood so they built the Tower to escape another flood. Both the Egyptians and the Mayans began to build pyramids again in defiance of God and to worship other Gods including the sun.

I hope this answers your question as to why I'm really not concerned with the Egyptians and the Mayans. Civilization began again at the Tower of Babel in present day Iraq. Egypt is not all that far away. The Bible gives a fairly clear detail of how the people dispersed.

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

Nonsense right back at you. You even had the Mayans before the flood. I can't count on anything you say. One has to check out all your wild claims.

So go check them out.

In the meantime, explain how existing civilizations / cultures existing at the time of the biblical Ark tale have no record of any global flood.

Check out what or who? What civilizations/cultures are you speaking of. Be specific. I've already done the Mayan and Egyptians for you and found you in error.

Do these civilizations/cultures even comment on Cain's murder of Abel or of the fall of Adam?

Asking why a culture doesn't comment on something is really a stupid question to ask. Did the people of Borneo comment on the passage of the ACA? I don't know.

 

[the_human_being]

LOL!! There are tons of things that don't make sense to you Hollie.

That's true. Claims to man-made inventions of magic / supernatural gawds make no sense to me, especially when the worshippers of those gawds are unable to account for even the most basic of attributes describing those gawds.

The fact that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscience doesn't satisfy your definition of attributes?

Those are attributes of the gawds that are shared by many inventions of gawds.

If you drill down on this, why are your gawds simply reflections of earlier inventions of gawds? Of what use or need are gawds who are uninvolved? Why the requirement to opt for a sentient, intelligent, and somehow "alive" being-- what's the point? To satisfy some anthropomorphic desire? Human egotism?

There is little difference between the natural Big Bang paradigm and a “Gawds Who Are Nonexistent” paradigm. With the former you have causal "omnipotence" -- nothing is as all powerful as all of existence (i.e., gravity and the speed of light are omnipotent). But that's all you have. No "omniscience" and no "omni benevolence" or any of those extraneous human-ego attributes that you and other inventors of religions have slathered your gawds with. So why opt for the latter, and then go assigning it characteristics that deconstruct the very thing you opt for?

An invisible, undetectable, unknown and completely and perfectly uninvolved entity is synonymous with "Nothingness". So why give this nothingness human attributes?

LOL!! I fully support a "Big Bang" theory. I believe God spoke and (BANG!!!) it was so. He created your gravity, your speed of light, all your laws of physics.
Your "science" cannot even define what is thought. Science is unable to explain how the brain functions. Actually, science cannot even cure the common cold.
Your Theory of Evolution is a theory of decay, dying, and destruction. It is a theory of chaos. Even Neanderthal man had a longer lifespan than we have. Man has steadily evolved downward, now having a lifespan of about 78 years.

Actually, science, with the assistance of modern medicine can explain a great many things about the function of the brain.

And, the Theory of Evolution is about making predictions that can be verified.

Don't let fear and ignorance rule your life.

THEORY. I actually love science but I recognize our limitations in applying science. It was God who set man's limit at 100 years, not science. It takes all our little science can do to even help us to achieve that age. Science certainly hasn't extended that limit.

I even agree with you atheists that man was made out of a rock.. The Bible states that God formed Adam out of the dust of the ground. That dust could easily have been a crushed and pulverized rock. Does this and my agreement with your Big Bang Theory now make me an honorary atheist evolutionist?

 

[Hollie]

And yet, both the Maya and the Egyptians, (among others), somehow managed to avoid any mention of a global, humanity wiping event as described in the various bibles.

So? They hated God. Some of the pharaohs even proclaimed themselves to be gods. Perhaps the destroyed any documentation or forbade any mention of it. Who knows? Who cares? The point is both the Mayan civilization and the Egyptian civilizations came into being after the flood.

You are correct that there were other civilizations on earth before the flood. These all perished in the flood however. Now, after the flood these lands were repopulated again. Excavations at Jerico have unearthed some 23 different times that city has been settled. Some of these are from before the flood.

Nonsense. The archeological and historic data show that many cultures and civilizations existed both before and after the biblical flood tale.

Nonsense right back at you. You even had the Mayans before the flood. I can't count on anything you say. One has to check out all your wild claims.

So go check them out.

In the meantime, explain how existing civilizations / cultures existing at the time of the biblical Ark tale have no record of any global flood.

Check out what or who? What civilizations/cultures are you speaking of. Be specific. I've already done the Mayan and Egyptians for you and found you in error.

Do these civilizations/cultures even comment on Cain's murder of Abel or of the fall of Adam?

Asking why a culture doesn't comment on something is really a stupid question to ask. Did the people of Borneo comment on the passage of the ACA? I don't know.

Being in denial of the Egyptian and Mayan civilizations (among others), that have no history of any biblical global flood doesn't help your case.

The 5th Dynasty of Egyptian civilization began its reign at about 2,465 BCE, which was followed by the 6th Dynasty, which ruled to about 2000 BCE.

How is it that there is no interruption of those dynasties?

Shall we look at China, next?

Sorry, but you need yet another revision to biblical history or yet more finagling with the numbers.