Question about Noah.

Learning about Ancient Mesopotamian Religion and Culture. Located in the Tigris-Euphrates valley was the land of Mesopotamia. It was here that the world's first cities were founded between 4000 – 3500 BC by the Sumerian people. They developed their own belief system, with a variety of gods and goddesses.

And there was no great flood that wiped them out.
 
Votto said:
It is with 100% certainty that the flood in Genesis references a real flood event. After all, to even know what a flood is one would need to have a point of reference. In fact, all ancient cultures in that region had a flood myth, even though they deviated from each other in some form or fashion.

So the bigger question becomes, how big was it? Did it merely cover the known world in that region or was it really world wide?
Click to expand...

There are more than 200 flood myths from different cultures and regions around the world from places and people who never heard of Noah.


Index by Region


Flood Stories from Around the World
 
hobelim said:
Votto said:
It is with 100% certainty that the flood in Genesis references a real flood event. After all, to even know what a flood is one would need to have a point of reference. In fact, all ancient cultures in that region had a flood myth, even though they deviated from each other in some form or fashion.

So the bigger question becomes, how big was it? Did it merely cover the known world in that region or was it really world wide?
Click to expand...

There are more than 200 flood myths from different cultures and regions around the world from places and people who never heard of Noah.


Index by Region


Flood Stories from Around the World
Click to expand...
.
hobelim said:
There are more than 200 flood myths from different cultures and regions around the world from places and people who never heard of Noah.
Click to expand...


if it were the same flood who wrote all the different stories ...
 
Maybe this has been discussed before (I'm not reading 163 pages of posts), but if God killed all the people in the world except those on Noah's Ark, how many pregnant women did God kill and, in so doing, kill their unborn babies? What sins did the fetuses commit? Isn't this a form of abortion, something the Catholic Church abhors?
 
mhansen2 said:
Maybe this has been discussed before (I'm not reading 163 pages of posts), but if God killed all the people in the world except those on Noah's Ark, how many pregnant women did God kill and, in so doing, kill their unborn babies? What sins did the fetuses commit? Isn't this a form of abortion, something the Catholic Church abhors?
Click to expand...

He waited for every child to be born and then he drowned them. That's much better than abortion.
 
BreezeWood said:
hobelim said:
Votto said:
It is with 100% certainty that the flood in Genesis references a real flood event. After all, to even know what a flood is one would need to have a point of reference. In fact, all ancient cultures in that region had a flood myth, even though they deviated from each other in some form or fashion.

So the bigger question becomes, how big was it? Did it merely cover the known world in that region or was it really world wide?
Click to expand...

There are more than 200 flood myths from different cultures and regions around the world from places and people who never heard of Noah.


Index by Region


Flood Stories from Around the World
Click to expand...
.
hobelim said:
There are more than 200 flood myths from different cultures and regions around the world from places and people who never heard of Noah.
Click to expand...


if it were the same flood who wrote all the different stories ...
Click to expand...


very funny.

It is interesting to note that many of the stories share similarities. Many stories have someone being warned in a dream, the people who died were messed up, the survivors had to float around on something for weeks, and when the water settled they had to repopulate the land because so many people died during the flood, even in desert places...

For the many regions affected all over the world it would have been the end of the world.


The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
 
Last edited:
The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
Click to expand...
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

The word flood is מַבּוּל mabbuwl, which also means deluge. The root of the word isיָבַל yabal, to bring, lead, carry, conduct, bear along, conduct, to be borne along, giving a sense to the use of this word to describe what happens in the spirit as the flesh is still struggling or holding on to carnal thoughts and precepts. יָבַל yâbal, yaw-bal'; a primitive root; properly, to flow; causatively, to bring (especially with pomp):—bring (forth), carry, lead (forth). Noah means 'rest'.

water tebah,תֵּבָה water, piss, watersprings, washing, watercourse, waterflood, watering, variant - water of the feet, urine, of danger, violence, transitory things, refreshment (figuratively). Those still in the search living in carnal ways (with motes, beams and sin) can be watered through piss of the feet that tread evil forces, tread grapes, treading on serpents, etc...this is why feet need washed.....

The Ark, in this case is described as a certain location with a container. This is within where the spirit of goodness is kept (that place - location in the spirit is a place in the mind). It is made of Gopher wood is what is written describing what we as carnal humans would think of as wood but it is actually the temple gate of Purim, meaning made from 'spiritual gold', that portion within us that is kept by God's spirit with us that was instilled by breath which has a pure heart of faith.
 
RodISHI said:
The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
Click to expand...
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
.
Click to expand...


Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
 
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Votto said:
It is with 100% certainty that the flood in Genesis references a real flood event. After all, to even know what a flood is one would need to have a point of reference. In fact, all ancient cultures in that region had a flood myth, even though they deviated from each other in some form or fashion.

So the bigger question becomes, how big was it? Did it merely cover the known world in that region or was it really world wide?
Click to expand...
"It is with 100% certainty that the flood in Genesis references a real flood event."


So, all you are saying is that "Surely there was a flood somewhere, at some point". That's deep, man. Far out.
 
hobelim said:
RodISHI said:
The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
Click to expand...
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
.
Click to expand...


Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
 
.
RodISHI said:
The word flood is מַבּוּל mabbuwl, which also means deluge ...
Click to expand...

hobelim said:
That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...

and people that reference the vocabulary of an unverified book to give their own special insight into a meaning for a universal religion that would be self decipherable if authentic and void of requiring personalized interpretation.



BreezeWood said:
if it were the same flood who wrote all the different stories ...
Click to expand...

hobelim said:
very funny.
Click to expand...

that's not a joke hobelim, who would have recorded the flood from different parts of the planet if it were the same flood as referenced where all were killed but one small group of people - the knowledge of that flood would not exist as those few survivors were not in the locations you have addressed. - there would be no recording at all if true.

the meaning of Noah's parable is what is real just as many openly known aspects of antiquity's lore are real what is phony are those people that knowingly misconstrue them for their own personal gain, christians and others through their written documents.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
RodISHI said:
The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
Click to expand...
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
.
Click to expand...


Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
Click to expand...
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
 
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
RodISHI said:
The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
Click to expand...
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
.
Click to expand...


Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
Click to expand...
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
Click to expand...
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
RodISHI said:
The only possible natural phenomenon that could possibly account for the details of what was described as a month long worldwide deluge of unrelenting torrential rain and superstorms is a large meteor impact over a large body of water.
Click to expand...
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
.
Click to expand...


Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
Click to expand...
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
Click to expand...
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
Click to expand...


Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
 
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
RodISHI said:
Perhaps when there were still dinosaurs actually roaming the land........today it is the spiritual flood or deluge that gets most of our attention if we are watching and searching for truth.
.
Click to expand...


Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
Click to expand...
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
Click to expand...
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
Click to expand...


Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
Click to expand...
"The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind."


And the fact that two different people can look at a fairy tale and garner two different, even contradictory meanings shows that we often take away what we want from fairy tales, art, etc. Surely you agree that people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes. I mean, surely you do not think it is coincidence that religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Thanks but I was dealing primarily with the question of what natural event could possibly have resulted in the details recorded in the hundreds of flood myths worldwide that are no more than 8000-10000 years old. The story of noah isn't the only story. Many others also include moral lessons attempting to explain the catastrophe.

That being said, I agree that there are many levels of meanings to the story of Noah that go over the heads of people who get all hung up on kangaroos.
Click to expand...
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
Click to expand...
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
Click to expand...
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
Click to expand...


Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
Click to expand...
"The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind."


And the fact that two different people can look at a fairy tale and garner two different, even contradictory meanings shows that we often take away what we want from fairy tales, art, etc. Surely you agree that people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes. I mean, surely you do not think it is coincidence that religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts.
Click to expand...


Of course I agree that "people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes"..and "religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts" .

Thats another ball of wax.

Anyway what better way to sweep the world clean once and for all from of all of these religious charlatans than to make clear what the teaching from God preserved by the authors and compelled into the future actually is...

the power in that liberating knowledge being given back to the people would forever change the landscape of the world as completely as Noah's flood.

the celestial powers will be shaken, stars will fall from the sky, mountains will be swept clean away, valleys will be lifted up, and a new heaven and earth will emerge from the ashes of the old.



Examine the evidence carefully. The chances are that I am just another screwball.
 
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
Yes, given enough time, we can invent all kinds of special meanings to a story and graft them onto it, as if they were always there.
Click to expand...
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
Click to expand...
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
Click to expand...


Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
Click to expand...
"The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind."


And the fact that two different people can look at a fairy tale and garner two different, even contradictory meanings shows that we often take away what we want from fairy tales, art, etc. Surely you agree that people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes. I mean, surely you do not think it is coincidence that religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts.
Click to expand...


Of course I agree that "people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes"..and "religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts" .

Thats another ball of wax.

Anyway what better way to sweep the world clean once and for all from of all of these religious charlatans than to make clear what the teaching from God preserved by the authors and compelled into the future actually is...

the power in that liberating knowledge being given back to the people would forever change the landscape of the world as completely as Noah's flood.

the celestial powers will be shaken, stars will fall from the sky, mountains will be swept clean away, valleys will be lifted up, and a new heaven and earth will emerge from the ashes of the old.



Of course the chances are that I am just another screwball.
Click to expand...
I admit, I am not one to ascribe deep, hidden meanings to the stories in religious texts. The moral of the Noah story is to fear God. Period. And people take that story very literally in that sense. They use it to undermine our scientific knowledge, by saying God can undo it all whenever the urge strikes Him. They insist scientists are all incompetent or are all liars, when our scientific knowledge contradicts the veracity of these fairy tales. You can watch that happen here on a daily basis.
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Invent? I don't think so.

When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. Some say it is a memorial ceremony. Some say it is about eating the flesh of God. Some say Jesus was insane.

Kosher law is all about what flesh of which creature is either clean or unclean.

People have lived and died for thousands of years, believers and unbelievers alike, without ever making the connection between kosher law and what Jesus said even though it was always there, not to mention obvious..


When a person learns the hidden teaching of any fable or fairy tale is it an invention or a discovery?
Click to expand...
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
Click to expand...


Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
Click to expand...
"The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind."


And the fact that two different people can look at a fairy tale and garner two different, even contradictory meanings shows that we often take away what we want from fairy tales, art, etc. Surely you agree that people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes. I mean, surely you do not think it is coincidence that religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts.
Click to expand...


Of course I agree that "people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes"..and "religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts" .

Thats another ball of wax.

Anyway what better way to sweep the world clean once and for all from of all of these religious charlatans than to make clear what the teaching from God preserved by the authors and compelled into the future actually is...

the power in that liberating knowledge being given back to the people would forever change the landscape of the world as completely as Noah's flood.

the celestial powers will be shaken, stars will fall from the sky, mountains will be swept clean away, valleys will be lifted up, and a new heaven and earth will emerge from the ashes of the old.



Of course the chances are that I am just another screwball.
Click to expand...
I admit, I am not one to ascribe deep, hidden meanings to the stories in religious texts. The moral of the Noah story is to fear God. Period. And people take that story very literally in that sense. They use it to undermine our scientific knowledge, by saying God can undo it all whenever the urge strikes Him. They insist scientists are all incompetent or are all liars, when our scientific knowledge contradicts the veracity of these fairy tales. You can watch that happen here on a daily basis.
Click to expand...


You are going about it the wrong way.

Using scientific knowledge to refute the veracity of scripture is like using scientific knowledge to refute the veracity of Pinocchio.

You would do better just pointing out the teaching and moral of the story than to cite scientific facts to argue with someone as insane, feeble minded, or deliberately deceptive as any person who would profess to believe that puppets can come to life or little boys can be turned into donkeys for life because it says so in the book..
 
Last edited:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
"When Jesus said,"eat my flesh" people have imagined all sorts of meanings, some extremely bizarre. "

Yes, exactly. And , given time, they will invent more meanings. So it goes. for instance, your "Kosher Law" invention.
Click to expand...


Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
Click to expand...
"The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind."


And the fact that two different people can look at a fairy tale and garner two different, even contradictory meanings shows that we often take away what we want from fairy tales, art, etc. Surely you agree that people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes. I mean, surely you do not think it is coincidence that religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts.
Click to expand...


Of course I agree that "people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes"..and "religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts" .

Thats another ball of wax.

Anyway what better way to sweep the world clean once and for all from of all of these religious charlatans than to make clear what the teaching from God preserved by the authors and compelled into the future actually is...

the power in that liberating knowledge being given back to the people would forever change the landscape of the world as completely as Noah's flood.

the celestial powers will be shaken, stars will fall from the sky, mountains will be swept clean away, valleys will be lifted up, and a new heaven and earth will emerge from the ashes of the old.



Of course the chances are that I am just another screwball.
Click to expand...
I admit, I am not one to ascribe deep, hidden meanings to the stories in religious texts. The moral of the Noah story is to fear God. Period. And people take that story very literally in that sense. They use it to undermine our scientific knowledge, by saying God can undo it all whenever the urge strikes Him. They insist scientists are all incompetent or are all liars, when our scientific knowledge contradicts the veracity of these fairy tales. You can watch that happen here on a daily basis.
Click to expand...


You are going about it the wrong way.

Using scientific knowledge to refute the veracity of scripture is like using scientific knowledge to refute the veracity of Pinocchio.

You would do better just pointing out the teaching and moral of the story than to cite scientific facts to argue with someone as insane, feeble minded, or deliberately deceptive as any person who would profess to believe that puppets can come to life or little boys can be turned into donkeys for life because it says so in the book..
Click to expand...
Not sure what planet you are living on, but on this one, people insist on the literal meaning of those fairy tales. And yes, we must stand our ground when they use this belief to undermine our hard-earned knowledge. I have no interest whatsoever in litigating the morality or hidden meanings of those fairy tales. I guess I will leave that to you. ;)
 
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Fort Fun Indiana said:
hobelim said:
Jesus didn't say these things in a vacuum or just anywhere to anyone. He said it when there was no such thing as freedom of speech during a time of brutal roman oppression in Israel to a bunch of observant Jews whose lives revolved around what flesh of which creature they could or could't eat... according to the law.

The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind. People can speculate forever about what that teaching might be but there can only be one right way to interpret the story that was intended to be discovered by the author from the beginning, and once discovered and reveal, it is obvious and cannot be unseen....
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"The author of any fairy tale has a teaching in mind."


And the fact that two different people can look at a fairy tale and garner two different, even contradictory meanings shows that we often take away what we want from fairy tales, art, etc. Surely you agree that people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes. I mean, surely you do not think it is coincidence that religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts.
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Of course I agree that "people manage to co-opt religious texts to suit their own neuroses and fetishes"..and "religious people always seem to find justification for their own bad behavior in their religious texts" .

Thats another ball of wax.

Anyway what better way to sweep the world clean once and for all from of all of these religious charlatans than to make clear what the teaching from God preserved by the authors and compelled into the future actually is...

the power in that liberating knowledge being given back to the people would forever change the landscape of the world as completely as Noah's flood.

the celestial powers will be shaken, stars will fall from the sky, mountains will be swept clean away, valleys will be lifted up, and a new heaven and earth will emerge from the ashes of the old.



Of course the chances are that I am just another screwball.
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I admit, I am not one to ascribe deep, hidden meanings to the stories in religious texts. The moral of the Noah story is to fear God. Period. And people take that story very literally in that sense. They use it to undermine our scientific knowledge, by saying God can undo it all whenever the urge strikes Him. They insist scientists are all incompetent or are all liars, when our scientific knowledge contradicts the veracity of these fairy tales. You can watch that happen here on a daily basis.
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You are going about it the wrong way.

Using scientific knowledge to refute the veracity of scripture is like using scientific knowledge to refute the veracity of Pinocchio.

You would do better just pointing out the teaching and moral of the story than to cite scientific facts to argue with someone as insane, feeble minded, or deliberately deceptive as any person who would profess to believe that puppets can come to life or little boys can be turned into donkeys for life because it says so in the book..
Click to expand...
Not sure what planet you are living on, but on this one, people insist on the literal meaning of those fairy tales. And yes, we must stand our ground when they use this belief to undermine our hard-earned knowledge. I have no interest whatsoever in litigating the morality or hidden meanings of those fairy tales. I guess I will leave that to you. ;)
Click to expand...


However many people there may be who insist on the literal meaning of those fairy tales there is not one person living on this planet with a second grade education who actually believes that a triune god diddled a virgin to father himself so that he could become fully human without a human father. No one believes that a deranged child rapist was a holy man and the greatest prophet of God. No one believes that God gives a crap about what you eat for dinner.

It is all pretense.

Like I said only the feeble minded, the insane, deceivers, or the deceived would profess such absurdities.

The number of deceived far outnumber the ones doing the deceiving.

The only reason anyone can deceived another person about the meaning of scripture at all is because the intended teaching still remains hidden.

Only the revealed truth can free the deceived from the captivity of the deceiver.


When the truth is known no one can be fooled and deception has no power, even over a child.


Don't just stand your ground. Be a little militant. You would do better making the case that people who would make such preposterous claims and profess ridiculous beliefs that contradict well known proven scientific facts about reality are unfit to hold any public office or position of authority that requires the public trust and should be banned from owning guns, working with children and operating heavy machinery by reason of insanity, non compos mentis.

Otherwise they might try to establish laws and customs that reflect their perverse views of the world, criminalize intelligent thought, plunge the world into unrelenting state of war, and we'd end up with millions of people incarcerated over bullshit and a complete moron will arise to blindly lead us to complete destruction.


Wouldn't that be fucked up.
 
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