Question about WW2..

[lafayette]

The Soviets helped the Nazis train their airforce and their army.

The Soviet Union and the nazis conspired against Poland.

Ditto

 

[whitehall]

Americans were reluctant to get into a foreign war about 25 years after Woodrow Wilson promised that he would never commit Americans to fight in a foreign war. It was a hell of a coincidence that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor just in time to convince Americans to get into the "real war" in Europe.

 

[Ringo]

The Soviets helped the Nazis train their airforce and their army.
The Soviet Union and the nazis conspired against Poland.

Lie

 

[lafayette]

The Soviets helped the Nazis train their Airforce and their army.
The Soviet Union and the nazis conspired against Poland.

Ringo: Lie

lafayette: Absolute truth.

 

[Picaro]

I was reading on Google that Hitler invaded and conquered Holland in May 1940..

Ok, but I also read on Google that Japan invaded the Dutch East Indies after Pearl Harbor, December 7th, 1941 though to obtain thee oil fields in the Dutch East Indies..

My question is, why would Japan need to attack thee Dutch East Indies in 1941-1942 if Hitler had already conquered Holland in 1940..?

Wouldn’t thee Dutch East Indies have fallen if Holland had fallen to the Nazi’s a year or so prio

The Soviets gave the Japs their eastern oil production in order to free up a million troops to bring back west to fight. It wasn't much at the time, but it was better than nothing so the Japs made the deal. Japan played both sides re Germany and the Soviets.

Didn't matter, the U.S. crushed them both in just 4 years, from a standing start with barely an army and navy to begin with. So much for the 'Master Races' and the Commie shit show. I like to laugh at the silly narrative of 'not fighting wars on two fronts n stuff' while e fought on three along with supplying everyone else to keep them in the war. lol it's understandable why so many Euros and Asians hate the U.S.; we made them all look like brain dead idiots, and still do. As we decline, they all go back to their usual idiot pastimes, and bigger wars begin to break out again.

The 20th Century isn't going to repeat itself, the U.S. is a banana republic, so be careful what you wish for. Enjoy your future of learning Mandarin or Farsi and groveling before savages and sadists.

 

[GLASNOST]

Some of us have known that for a long time yet the usual suspects continue with the bullshit that the Soviet Union collaborated with the Nazis.

There is quite a lot of banter and speculation about the Soviet - NAZI - Bandera/Ukraini conglomeration but I think it is much more complicated than idiots like us understand. The Hitler-Stalin agreement has been understood fairly well. They both had their own agenda just waiting for the right moment to enact it. I think though, that Poland had good reason to be suspicious of Stalin right from the start and they told Britain about it in no uncertain terms. Anyway, this is 2024. The Soviet Union no longer exists and the world is not the same any more. Poland is committing an enormous mistake by making any concession with the Ukrainis and it is high time for Poland to join the millennium and understand what side of the bread is buttered. It is my assumption that the Poles are being manipulated by the huge Polish population in the US and Canada in the very same way that the Zionists are swinging their weight in the US by the same means.

 

[Picaro]

Ringo: Lie

lafayette: Absolute truth.

Actually he's right, you're just stupid. Germany was developing its 'black armies' in several countries, getting around the Versailles sanctions. Spain and Italy were two others harboring German weapons developments. German armor units were also training in the Soviet Union along with Luftwaffe units. This started long before Hitler; it was overseen by Wehrmacht General Kurt von Schleicher, with players like the Kruppes and Papen and Hindenburg. Schleicher was in fact a rival of Hitler's, and was assassinated by Hitler after his election in the 1930's.

Kurt von Schleicher - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

During the ensuing talks with the German cabinet, Schleicher was able to get permission to allow the Army to return to Berlin.[5] On 23 December 1918, the provisional government under Ebert came under attack from the radical left-wing Volksmarinedivision.[6] Schleicher played a key role in negotiating the Ebert–Groener pact. In exchange for agreeing to send help to the government, Schleicher was able to secure Ebert's assent to the Army being allowed to maintain its political autonomy as a "state within the state".[7]

To crush the left-wing rebels, Schleicher helped to found the Freikorps in early January 1919.[8] Schleicher's role for the rest of the Weimar Republic was to serve as the Reichswehr's political fixer, who would ensure that the military's interests would be secured.[3]

1920s​

Contacts with the Soviet Union​

In the early 1920s, Schleicher emerged as a leading protégé of General Hans von Seeckt, who often gave Schleicher sensitive assignments.[9] In the spring of 1921, Seeckt created a secret group within the Reichswehr known as Sondergruppe R, whose task was to work with the Red Army in their common struggle against the international system established by the Treaty of Versailles.[10] Schleicher worked out the arrangements with Leonid Krasin for German aid to the Soviet arms industry.[11] German financial and technological aid in building the industry was exchanged for Soviet support in helping Germany circumvent the disarmament clauses of the Treaty of Versailles.[12] Schleicher created several dummy corporations, most notably the GEFU (Gesellschaft zur Förderung gewerblicher Unternehmungen, "Company for the Promotion of Industrial Enterprise"), which funnelled 75 million Reichsmarks, some $18 million (equivalent to $322 million in 2023), into the Soviet arms industry by the end of 1923.[13]

Black Reichswehr​

At the same time, a team led by Fedor von Bock and comprising Schleicher, Eugen Ott and Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord established what came to be known as the Black Reichswehr. Major Bruno Ernst Buchrucker was tasked with building up the Arbeitskommandos (Work Commandos), officially a labor group intended to assist with civilian projects but in reality a force of soldiers. This fiction allowed Germany to exceed the limits on troop strength set by the Versailles Treaty.[14] The Black Reichswehr became infamous for its practice of using Feme murders to punish "traitors" who, for example, revealed the locations of weapons' stockpiles or names of members. During the trials of some of those charged with the murders, prosecutors alleged that the killings were ordered by the officers from Bock's group.[15]

... and more, not only at this link but many places.


This is common knowledge, which is just more proof 'lafeyette' is an uneducated moron who only posts ideologically slanted rubbish, and knows nothing about history in these threads.

 

[Deadstick]

There is quite a lot of banter and speculation about the Soviet - NAZI - Bandera/Ukraini conglomeration but I think it is much more complicated than idiots like us understand. The Hitler-Stalin agreement has been understood fairly well. They both had their own agenda just waiting for the right moment to enact it. I think though, that Poland had good reason to be suspicious of Stalin right from the start and they told Britain about it in no uncertain terms. Anyway, this is 2024. The Soviet Union no longer exists and the world is not the same any more. Poland is committing an enormous mistake by making any concession with the Ukrainis and it is high time for Poland to join the millennium and understand what side of the bread is buttered. It is my assumption that the Poles are being manipulated by the huge Polish population in the US and Canada in the very same way that the Zionists are swinging their weight in the US by the same means.

Good points, my theory for what it's worth is that Stalin after having been turned down by the West for a mutual defence deal at the time against any threat from Germany decided to act alone, i believe the deal with the Germans was to play for time otherwise there would have been 2 plus million German troops on the border of the Soviet Union a long time before Barbarossa, when the Nazis did attack they got as far as the suburbs of Moscow, anyway the attitude of Poland today is hard to understand it's rabidly anti Russian, i put some of it down to lunatics like Brezinski who was in the US Government for a time, it wasn't the Russians who killed six million Poles and wiped Warsaw off the map it was the Nazis, like you say it's 2024 there is no reason why Poland shouldn't have good relations with Russia.

 

[gipper]

Good points, my theory for what it's worth is that Stalin after having been turned down by the West for a mutual defence deal at the time against any threat from Germany decided to act alone, i believe the deal with the Germans was to play for time otherwise there would have been 2 plus million German troops on the border of the Soviet Union a long time before Barbarossa, when the Nazis did attack they got as far as the suburbs of Moscow, anyway the attitude of Poland today is hard to understand it's rabidly anti Russian, i put some of it down to lunatics like Brezinski who was in the US Government for a time, it wasn't the Russians who killed six million Poles and wiped Warsaw off the map it was the Nazis, like you say it's 2024 there is no reason why Poland shouldn't have good relations with Russia.

The overt hatred and fear of Russia today seems rather prevalent in much of Europe. Poland isn’t alone with this attitude. The Baltic States certainly hold this attitude, as does Sweden and Finland. Their alignment with NATO proves this.

However, after what some Eastern European nations suffered under Soviet occupation for decades after WWII, this attitude is certainly understandable. Unfortunately there doesn’t appear to be statesmen in the West recognizing this illogical fear and in fact, it appears most in positions of power in the US want war with the worlds largest nuclear power. History tells us mistakes like this often lead to massive death and destruction.

I believe the US used this fear of Russia to expand NATO to Russia’s borders in a clear provocation. This US policy of provocation has lead to the provoked war in Ukraine and just might result in a nuclear holocaust.

 

[GLASNOST]

.... my theory ... is that Stalin after having been turned down by the West for a mutual defence deal at the time against any threat from Germany decided to act alone

I can see that.

... i believe the deal with the Germans was to play for time otherwise there would have been 2 plus million German troops on the border of the Soviet Union a long time before Barbarossa,

That also make sense.

.... the attitude of Poland today is hard to understand it's rabidly anti Russian,

It's illogical.

i put some of it down to lunatics like Brezinski who was in the US Government for a time,

There's the reason alright.

.... it's 2024 there is no reason why Poland shouldn't have good relations with Russia.

I still think it's the huge US/Canadian Polish population that is putting its influence in force. Just like the Zionists in the US are doing.

 

[Ringo]

German armor units were also training in the Soviet Union along with Luftwaffe units. This started long before Hitler;

Germany of the Weimar Republic was normal democracy. It is not surprising that the two states under Western sanctions cooperated in different spheres of life. But any military cooperation was terminated by the Soviet Union when Hitler came to power. Unlike the West, which continued to pour millions into the economy of Hitler's Germany and proclaimed Hitler Man of the Year.

 

[GLASNOST]

The overt hatred and fear of Russia today seems rather prevalent in much of Europe.

No, this is not true.

Poland isn’t alone with this attitude.

OK.

The Baltic States certainly hold this attitude

Yes.

as does Sweden

No, not true.

and Finland.

Yes true, but Finland has a legitimate gripe against Russia over Karelian.

Their alignment with NATO proves this.

No. All that proves is pressure from the American MIC. Extortion. It's called EXTORTION. Who assassinated Olof Palme? I'll give you a hint: it was the same who assassinated John Kennedy.

 

[gipper]

No, this is not true.

OK.

Yes.

No, not true.

Yes true, but Finland has a legitimate gripe against Russia over Karelian.

No. All that proves is pressure from the American MIC. Extortion. It's called EXTORTION. Who assassinated Olof Palme? I'll give you a hint: it was the same who assassinated John Kennedy.

You seem to be agreeing with me while simultaneously disagreeing.

It’s a fact the people of the Baltic States overwhelmingly fear and hate Russia. Finland and Sweden joining NATO may indicate a similar opinion of Russia. Or it could be that their political leadership are corrupted by money offered them by the US empire, that caused them to join NATO.

History certainly shouts continually provoking a powerful nation often leads to misunderstandings resulting in war.

 

[Deadstick]

I can see that.

That also make sense.

It's illogical.

There's the reason alright.

I still think it's the huge US/Canadian Polish population that is putting its influence in force. Just like the Zionists in the US are doing.

 

[Deadstick]

I am not surprised by the rancid Baltic Nazis because they have not learned a damn thing since WW2, there were almost no Jews left alive there after they had finished, and unlike Poland they had SS volunteer units so there is little hope for those people to become human, they think they can change history by desecrating and destroying the graves and monuments to the Red army.

 

[Deadstick]

You seem to be agreeing with me while simultaneously disagreeing.

It’s a fact the people of the Baltic States overwhelmingly fear and hate Russia. Finland and Sweden joining NATO may indicate a similar opinion of Russia. Or it could be that their political leadership are corrupted by money offered them by the US empire, that caused them to join NATO.

History certainly shouts continually provoking a powerful nation often leads to misunderstandings resulting in war.

I think you could be right about the corruption of money, i didn't see any referendum in Sweden or Finland about joining NATO, that was the political leadership.

 

[gipper]

I am not surprised by the rancid Baltic Nazis because they have not learned a damn thing since WW2, there were almost no Jews left alive there after they had finished, and unlike Poland they had SS volunteer units so there is little hope for those people to become human, they think they can change history by desecrating and destroying the graves and monuments to the Red army.

I’ve studied the history of the Baltic States during and after WWII for nearly 40 years. I have extended family and friends of Lithuanian descent and know many who currently live there and have visited, since the fall of the USSR.

I must take a small exception to your description of them being Nazis during WWII. Yes some were ardent supporters of Nazi Germany, which made them hate Jewish citizens of the Baltic states. But, as is often the case, the situation was more complex.

All three nations had relatively sizable Jewish populations prior to WWII. They lived in harmony for a long time. Vilnius was known as the ‘Jerusalem of the North.’ This changed after Stalin invaded in 1939 and quickly annexed all three nations and imposed his typical tyranny on the citizenry.

During this time, some Jews of the three nations gladly welcomed the Soviets and worked to support them. This caused many non-Jewish citizens to see them as traitors.

So, when the Germans invaded in 1941 and took control, the non-Jewish Baltics sought retribution against Jews. Sadly as so often happens, most Baltic Jews weren’t traitors but were lumped in with the traitors, resulting in the Nazis extermination of them.

 

[GLASNOST]

You seem to be agreeing with me while simultaneously disagreeing.

Perhaps you need to read my reply more carefully.

It’s a fact the people of the Baltic States overwhelmingly fear and hate Russia.

That's an exageration but I'll give you a pass over it and just say "yes". If you want to discuss the deatails (as far as I am qualified to give my "opinion") then we can.

Finland and Sweden joining NATO may indicate a similar opinion of Russia.

No, I have explained that to you. Finland has a legimate gripe against the USSR and the gripe has yet to have been rectified so it is carried over to this day. Sweden neither has any serious gripe nor does "it" hate or fear Russia.

 

[Deadstick]

I’ve studied the history of the Baltic States during and after WWII for nearly 40 years. I have extended family and friends of Lithuanian descent and know many who currently live there and have visited, since the fall of the USSR.

I must take a small exception to your description of them being Nazis during WWII. Yes some were ardent supporters of Nazi Germany, which made them hate Jewish citizens of the Baltic states. But, as is often the case, the situation was more complex.

All three nations had relatively sizable Jewish populations prior to WWII. They lived in harmony for a long time. Vilnius was known as the ‘Jerusalem of the North.’ This changed after Stalin invaded in 1939 and quickly annexed all three nations and imposed his typical tyranny on the citizenry.

During this time, some Jews of the three nations gladly welcomed the Soviets and worked to support them. This caused many non-Jewish citizens to see them as traitors.

So, when the Germans invaded in 1941 and took control, the non-Jewish Baltics sought retribution against Jews. Sadly as so often happens, most Baltic Jews weren’t traitors but were lumped in with the traitors, resulting in the Nazis extermination of them.

Well retribution seems to be an understatement to explain the savagery, and it doesn't explain the hatred today of Russia, Russia isn't the Soviet Union under Stalin.