Zone1 Question for Christians

[Meriweather]

You should read the posts here. Yes, Christianity whole heartedly endorses that.

Shrug. Some minority sects, perhaps. Maybe some individuals of any faith. However, as far as for more numerous others? Let's start with you. Do you whole-heartedly endorse it?

 

[BULLDOG]

Shrug. Some minority sects, perhaps. Maybe some individuals of any faith. However, as far as for more numerous others? Let's start with you. Do you whole-heartedly endorse it?

I think I've already presented my thoughts on Christianity. This is just a discussion of why I can no longer embrace the beliefs I had for most of my life.

 

[Meriweather]

I think I've already presented my thoughts on Christianity. This is just a discussion of why I can no longer embrace the beliefs I had for most of my life.

I get that. You saw Christianity as a must do checklist decided by someone else. No mistakes allowed. Had I been raised in that mindset, I wouldn't have held onto those beliefs for a fraction of my life. Christianity (at least how the Catholic Church presents it) is the Way Christ taught. Jesus said his way the yoke is easy, the burden light. If you stumbled into something where the yoke was hard and the burden heavy, then you made a good decision. As I see it.

 

[BULLDOG]

I get that. You saw Christianity as a must do checklist decided by someone else. No mistakes allowed. Had I been raised in that mindset, I wouldn't have held onto those beliefs for a fraction of my life. Christianity (at least how the Catholic Church presents it) is the Way Christ taught. Jesus said his way the yoke is easy, the burden light. If you stumbled into something where the yoke was hard and the burden heavy, then you made a good decision. As I see it.

You would have held the beliefs you were taught as a child, just as it has always been in every religion in every country in the world. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, your beliefs depend more on which country you were born in than they do on your personal moral standards. Those standards are taught by who you are around, not the other way. Even if there were positive proof that a Christian God exists (there is none) , the god described in the bible is too heartless and petty to deserve worship.

 

[onefour1]

This life is such a small part of our total existence yet because God has placed a veil over our minds we cannot remember our premortal existence nor do we understand that we are eternal in nature. This life is only a test to see if we will choose good over evil and also an experience to give a strong knowledge of good and evil. Eventually all mankind's mortal bodies will die but not our spirits. Jesus has made it possible that we can all be resurrected and live eternally in our resurrected bodies of flesh and bones. Eventually we will all look back through time and see that this life was nothing but a temporary experience which gave us wisdom and understanding and gave us the chance to choose in and of ourselves to be good beings. Yes life is hard and very difficult at times, but I believe we chose to come here and go through this experience for our own personal growth and learning. How we fair in this test is determined by our own free will and choice even it is a difficult journey.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

No Christian can support Trump.

He is today's version of the anti-Christ, fooling the very elite.

 

[Meriweather]

You would have held the beliefs you were taught as a child, just as it has always been in every religion in every country in the world. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, your beliefs depend more on which country you were born in than they do on your personal moral standards. Those standards are taught by who you are around, not the other way. Even if there were positive proof that a Christian God exists (there is none) , the god described in the bible is too heartless and petty to deserve worship.

Actually, I remember what caught my interest as a mere tot, and I latched onto it. That same bit is taught in all three major faiths--and something quite similar in Buddhism. As I keep saying, God reaches us where we are and draws us to Himself from there.

Once again, modern English, read through the lens of Western culture warps the original language and cultural perspective of Biblical accounts. The Bible notes, "Seek and you will find." I searched, I found. It is taking decades.

There is an old quote: Two prisoners look out through the bars. One sees the dirt, the other sees the stars. It seems the same is true of the Bible: Looking through the Bible one can find find God and absolutely love and adore Him--or if preferred, people can find reason to dismiss and even hold Him in contempt.

Bottom line is I wanted to find God and you wanted to lose Him. It appears we both succeeded in reaching our goals.

 

[Meriweather]

No Christian can support Trump.

He is not running for Sainthood, he is running for President.

Our most saintly President might well have been Jimmy Carter. Good saint, poor President. In this thread we were speaking of how God can use almost anyone to further His plan. No matter who ends up on the ballot for President, I will be looking for how well that person can manage the nation, not how bright his/her halo is (if s/he happens to even have a halo).

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Trump is either insane or the anti-Christ.

 

[zaangalewa]

I believe in the teachings of Jesus, not the teachings of Paul. ...

or with other words: You are no Christian and no member of the western world. Muslim?

 

[zaangalewa]

Either God created everything by design and with purpose ...

... and then exists no freedom. So your "or" is no "or". An intentionless freedom is nothing else than pure chance, isn't it? And I would say when in this case an intentionless physical freedom leads to this what we are then exists something what we don't understand. We don't understand how god made/makes the world. And we do not only not know his plan we do not even know the character of his plan and its realization. That's why we do natural science - because we like to understand what happens in his physical ("visible") creation. We know meanwhile much more about physics - but we are stil not allknowing - and we never will be. It looks like for example as if a created universe is more easy able to exist than a nothing. But are we able to understand this only a little?

 

[pknopp]

or with other words: You are no Christian and no member of the western world. Muslim?

No clue what you are rambling about.......sadly neither do you.

 

[zaangalewa]

No clue what you are rambling about.......

Because you are no Christian and no member of the western world.

sadly neither do you.

What's wrong. I say this on very exact reasons.

 

[zaangalewa]

As a fallen and sinful Christian, I struggle with verses like "many are called, but few are chosen," and the passage about the 10 virgins standing at the door but only 5 (the ones who prepared) were allowed in. Etc.

You say it on your own: "chosen" is "to be prepared". The problem is to find a biblical oil-lamp, oil and a vessel for oil. So best is to have a pocket lamp with working akkumulators and a bag with enough extra akkumulators. And don't forget to test your equipment from time to time and to load your batteries. And what you can learn from an old X-ray-picture is "to learn to see". Nevertheless an old X-ray picture will perhaps not really help to see in a new situation.

But none of us know the heart and mind of God. ...

Don't worry. He's a nice guy. You can trust him ... even without heart and without mind and if you are totally dead.

 

[zaangalewa]

pknopp

You had the choice to ask or to be right. You chose to be right. So you are chosen from yourselve, isn't it? But who is chosen from god? Who asks?

 

[zaangalewa]

...

... Paul of Tarsus who had murdered many varied christ cult followers wrote 3/4 the text that caused over thousands of wars and over 50 million murders and the 3main martyrs used to create the central figure YESHU son of Mary-YEHUDA the Galilean- and Theudas the River Jordan figure, all political prisoners who got their followers slain, but also are used for these thousands of wars and millions of murders. ...
Others this warning fits:
Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin ...

Ahem sorry: But Alexander the Great, Julius Cesar, Ghengis Khan, Mohammed, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin and so on had been pagans and/or atheists - but for sure no Christians. So what do you really try to speak about?

 

[pknopp]

pknopp

You had the choice to ask or to be right. You chose to be right. So you are chosen from yourselve, isn't it? But who is chosen from god? Who asks?

Still no clue what you are rambling about.

 

[zaangalewa]

No god can be all knowing and all loving at the same time.

I never heard the expression "all loving". We say for example "god is love" - and you have to be careful now. This is not a picture which we make from god. When we say "God is love" then this doesn't mean "god loves". This is different. It means when we love we are somehow part of god. Nevertheless we also believe god loves. I believe for example god loves you more than anything else in this universe. And I believe when I say the same to someone else then this is also true. First of all I am not able to say this in the same time - so it is not really a contradiction in our own logic - but I think this is also true within the own logos of god in a way which I am not really able currently to understand. But this is my belief - not my knowledge. Nevertheless I am convinced in this context as if I really would know this.

I made the experience that specially atheists are not able to make this difference between knowledge and belief. If they are convinced then this is always only "knowledge". Atheists exists a lot, 'beliefers in atheism' are very seldom. But nevertheless is atheism also "only" a belief.

 

[zaangalewa]

What scripture says Paul was chosen by god to write most of the NT?

The fact that it is so.

 

[zaangalewa]

Main stream Christianity doesn't generally endorse multiple routs for forgiveness and heaven.

?

Hmmm ... Love needs freedom. ... Crimes make other people unfree. So we arrest criminals. ... And sins make oneselve unfree. So we try to avoid sins. ... Is this "mainstream" in your view to the Christians world? "Forgiveness of sin" (confession) is in this context a kind of reset before we start again and stumble more and more over new self-made hurdles (sins) or we land with our head in a wall (crime).