Zone1 Question for Christians

[BULLDOG]

Could have Ignoring the parts you didn't like been where faith/belief was lost?

When I was young I had an amazing experience of God, and came away from it not with the conviction "God loves me" (although He certainly does) but with the conviction "God loves all of us." It's just who He is.

What I could not understand is how the authors of the Old Testament could portray God as they did. After years, decades of study I realized they saw God just as I had. However, the change from Hebrew to English and from ancient Eastern culture to modern Western culture was the issue. Along the way I came across rabbis, time and again, saying scripture was not meant to be read, it was intended to be studied. For how long? Decades wasn't nearly long enough. It takes a lifetime.

People are not choosing and passing over. That's being mistaken for where people are in their studies.

Where in the bible does it say your eternal destination is graded on a curve? You haven't quite figured it out yet, so it doesn't really matter what you believe. It was only ten suggestions, after all.

 

[Meriweather]

Where in the bible does it say your eternal destination is graded on a curve? You haven't quite figured it out yet, so it doesn't really matter what you believe. It was only ten suggestions, after all.

We touched on this earlier. Do you still see the Bible as instructions on how to end up in heaven? I don't and that is true for many people of faith. The Bible gives instructions on how to best live physical life here on earth. It gives accounts of God in our midst. It is a study of our present human existence.

I don't understand how it gets some so terribly entangled in the afterlife.

 

[BULLDOG]

We touched on this earlier. Do you still see the Bible as instructions on how to end up in heaven? I don't and that is true for many people of faith. The Bible gives instructions on how to best live physical life here on earth. It gives accounts of God in our midst. It is a study of our present human existence.

I don't understand how it gets some so terribly entangled in the afterlife.

The bible can be used for a lot of things. It is an amazing piece of literature even if you discount all the religious connotations. This thread isn't about all those other purposes. The OP presented one question. In light of Paul's remarks in Romans, were some people created by god for the sole purpose of sending to hell? People who are condemned at birth, and nothing they will ever believe or do will ever change that. If the answer is yes, that doesn't sound like a god worth worshipping. If the answer is no, then the purported author of most of the new testiment was teaching false doctrine, and most of the new testiment is not a valid representation of Christianity.

 

[SweetSue92]

You did not answer my question.

If a god is all knowing and he knows a person he supposedly loves is going to be murdered and does nothing how can you believe that god is all loving?

Because this is not Heaven yet.

 

[SweetSue92]

The bible can be used for a lot of things. It is an amazing piece of literature even if you discount all the religious connotations. This thread isn't about all those other purposes. The OP presented one question. In light of Paul's remarks in Romans, were some people created by god for the sole purpose of sending to hell? People who are condemned at birth, and nothing they will ever believe or do will ever change that. If the answer is yes, that doesn't sound like a god worth worshipping. If the answer is no, then the purported author of most of the new testiment was teaching false doctrine, and most of the new testiment is not a valid representation of Christianity.

This is one of the most difficult teachings in the Bible. No doubt about that.

Many people do not factor in, however, that we will ALL--believers and unbelievers alike--face the Judgment Seat of Christ. Salvation in Christ is just an "entrance ticket" to Heaven; then there are rewards (or "crowns"). Some will be highly rewarded for good works and others, not so much so.

It seems to me a just God would do the same in Hell. Jesus talks generally of "weeping and gnashing of teeth". But it would be unjust to give the same sentence to someone who did good deeds all their lives but was not a believer AND to a serial rapist and murderer, or worse, the perpetrator of genocides, etc.

It could be that some people's Hell is only the separation of God they have asked for--along with all of His graces and gifts. That in itself is bleak enough.

 

[Blues Man]

Because this is not Heaven yet.

So your god doesn't love you until you die?

Besides that there is no such thing as heaven

 

[SweetSue92]

So your god doesn't love you until you die?

Besides that there is no such thing as heaven

You stating that there is no Heaven does not make it so. First. And if it IS so then your entire argument is undermined, which you must know.

 

[Blues Man]

You stating that there is no Heaven does not make it so. First. And if it IS so then your entire argument is undermined, which you must know.

No you ignored my argument.

No god that is all knowing can also be all loving

The god you worship has certainly proven that it is not all loving.

 

[SweetSue92]

No you ignored my argument.

No god that is all knowing can also be all loving

The god you worship has certainly proven that it is not all loving.

So parents never let their children suffer temporary pain for longer term gain? If they do are they unloving parents?

 

[Blues Man]

So parents never let their children suffer temporary pain for longer term gain? If they do are they unloving parents?

So you think being murdered or raped is the same thing as letting a kid scrape a knee falling off of a bike?

 

[SweetSue92]

So you think being murdered or raped is the same thing as letting a kid scrape a knee falling off of a bike?

I think preventing all pain is Heaven. And it's not Heaven yet. So pain is allowed until it is, same as loving parents can allow their children to endure pain for a greater reward.

 

[Blues Man]

I think preventing all pain is Heaven. And it's not Heaven yet. So pain is allowed until it is, same as loving parents can allow their children to endure pain for a greater reward.

So if you get gang raped you are actually gong to fall to your knees and thank your god for allowing to happen.

 

[SweetSue92]

So if you get gang raped you are actually gong to fall to your knees and thank your god for allowing to happen.

If your loved one gets gang raped there's nothing more. She gets gang raped, no one is duty bound to care. The universe spins on, senselessly.

 

[Blues Man]

If your loved one gets gang raped there's nothing more. She gets gang raped, no one is duty bound to care. The universe spins on, senselessly.

And the god you worship doesn't care either.

I would actually risk my life to stop my wife from being raped but then again I love my wife.

 

[SweetSue92]

And the god you worship doesn't care either.

I would actually risk my life to stop my wife from being raped but then again I love my wife.

Once again you're invoking untruths. That there is no Heaven, which you can't know. That God doesn't exist or care, that you also can't know.

If I'm right, your argument is useless. God can be both all knowing and loving.

 

[Blues Man]

Once again you're invoking untruths. That there is no Heaven, which you can't know. That God doesn't exist or care, that you also can't know.

If I'm right, your argument is useless. God can be both all knowing and loving.

I never once said gods do not exist.

But it's quite obvious if any gods exist they really don't give a shit about us mere mortals.

And as I said no all loving gods would stand by knowing you were going to be raped tortured and murdered and do NOTHING.

 

[BULLDOG]

This is one of the most difficult teachings in the Bible. No doubt about that.

Many people do not factor in, however, that we will ALL--believers and unbelievers alike--face the Judgment Seat of Christ. Salvation in Christ is just an "entrance ticket" to Heaven; then there are rewards (or "crowns"). Some will be highly rewarded for good works and others, not so much so.

It seems to me a just God would do the same in Hell. Jesus talks generally of "weeping and gnashing of teeth". But it would be unjust to give the same sentence to someone who did good deeds all their lives but was not a believer AND to a serial rapist and murderer, or worse, the perpetrator of genocides, etc.

It could be that some people's Hell is only the separation of God they have asked for--along with all of His graces and gifts. That in itself is bleak enough.

One of the most difficult? Not even close. If you are depnding on a just god, you can forget about one who creates people who have no chance for forgiveness, no matter what they believe or do, like Paul described. You think he will grade on a curve? that is totally unbiblical.

 

[Dadoalex]

On the contrary. I studied six thousand years of history which is the reason for my view.

Apparently, no ,make that obviously, you missed many days of studying.

 

[hadit]

A living relationship? As determined by your emotions?

No, as determined by my experiences, and the experiences of others throughout history. Chasing emotions is not a relationship, which is why those in the charismatic movement have to be careful to not mistake the one for the other.

 

[hadit]

One of the most difficult? Not even close. If you are depnding on a just god, you can forget about one who creates people who have no chance for forgiveness, no matter what they believe or do, like Paul described. You think he will grade on a curve? that is totally unbiblical.

That is a false understanding, as has been explained to you multiple times. At this point, you're merely clinging to your understanding and not willing to even consider something different. The fact that God creates people that He knows will reject Him just illustrates His fairness and justice. He isn't in the business of creating mindless robots.