Zone1 Question for Christians

[Meriweather]

Agreed. Understand what was going on when God brought disaster on people, what they were doing at the time, WHY He acted as he did. It is not enough to complain about the punishment without seeing the centuries of grace and mercy He extended, only to see it trashed.

I am not one who believes God issues punishment through natural disasters. What I do find interesting is that the people use these disasters, whether natural or wars caused by humans, as a time to confess and/or recognize the wrongs they have been committing against God (or the ideal behavior) and against one another. They also see the disasters as rightful consequences for their wrong behavior.

Also worthy of note, it is usually the ruling class and the elite who were doing wrong when the country was conquered by another nation. It seems all throughout Biblical history, rulers were playing and fiddling while destruction rained down upon all.

 

[Meriweather]

Unless. of course, Marx was right when he called religion the "opiate of the masses" and it's all a scam to keep the people under control and get them to pay for their own enslavement.

Marx was merely noting what government had to do to control their populations. People were respecting their religious leaders because of both the observation and trust they had that these leaders were leading them in right ways. The solution? Convince them religion is wrong and government is right, and the population will follow government in its "right" ways.

 

[BULLDOG]

At any point in your alleged "deep study", did you ever come across anything that explained to you that faith is belief in the absence of proof?

I'm sure everybody knows what faith is. Without some kind of proof, how could you possibly chose one religion over another?

 

[BULLDOG]

While I believe the Bible is of God and has been under the protection of God, those who wrote down the words in the Bible did so through their own eyes, experience, history, lore, understanding, belief. And as all of us have changed our perspective and belief and understanding about many things over the years, so did they over the centuries and millenia. Thus it is important to know and incorporate all of the Bible into our understanding and allow God to work in our lives rather than try to dictate what specific rules and theology will be 'law' for us as the ancient ones did.

I think God allows us all to be flexible in our beliefs and understanding and he seems to respect those who seek to obey and worship him regardless of their differing doctrines. I have often said that when we meet in Heaven we'll all have a good laugh over how much of all this we got wrong.

As for who goes to Heaven, I'm pretty sure that is God's prerogative and none of us have any say over it whatsoever. Our job is to love God with all our heart, mine, and soul and to love others as we want to be loved. But if we at least try to live up to that ideal, I believe God gives us increasing assurance that this life is not all that there is and a spiritual life--we call it Heaven--awaits us.

So you're another one who believes it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere. So do you think all religions are equally valid?

 

[Dadoalex]

The answer, of course, is that Marxism itself is a religion, a scam to keep the people under control and get them to pay for their own enslavement.

The option requiring the least explanation is that God is all-powerful and all-knowing, sees the entirety of human life from beginning to end and knows exactly what He's doing.

And by eliminating the impossible, ala man having even the capacity to understand God's mind beyond what He reveals to us, or to have standing to comment on His actions, we're left with, again, God is in control, His ways are just and merciful. Until you grasp that, you're screaming into a hurricane.

When you use in line quotes you end up looking like an idiot.
But, that's nothing new so try again.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm sure everybody knows what faith is. Without some kind of proof, how could you possibly chose one religion over another?

The Essential Question is, Why is Proof Important?

What is the most important to us? Think about it. Isn't it to be right? The only importance proof gives is an assurance something is right. Religion is kept or joined because a person sees that it is right for him/her. For example, Catholicism is right for me because I am strong on discipline, tradition, and practice. I follow its tenets and they work. For me. For my life. (And I also had to do decades of extended research to properly understand the Old Testament. That continues, and the New Testament as well for that matter.)

You said you were a Baptist. You must have found something that was not right, and like anyone else, being right is of great importance. Perhaps the Baptist take on the God of the Old Testament was not right? It simply wasn't right to love a being whose behavior is seen as both terrifying and atrocious?

We are all pretty well determined not to be wrong. What is right for you?

 

[Dadoalex]

Marx was merely noting what government had to do to control their populations. People were respecting their religious leaders because of both the observation and trust they had that these leaders were leading them in right ways. The solution? Convince them religion is wrong and government is right, and the population will follow government in its "right" ways.

This might be easier...

Religion or something like it has been used to control people for thousands of years.

The Jews. There is no heaven
The people: So why am I giving my money and labor to the Church
Church: Did we say "no heaven" what we meant was no heaven till God comes to claim his throne.
People: When will that be?
Church: It's impossible to know god's will
Christian Church: Hey guys, follow us and you get to go to heaven as soon as you die
People: Cool!
Catholic church: BUT...you might have to spend a few thousand years in purgatory unless you give us lots of money, oh, and BOYS, lots of young boys!
Catholics: Uh, OK, sure
Baptists: HEY! Not only do you get to got to heaven as soon as you die but you can be a horrible person, lie, steal, rape, whatever you like as long as you say "sorry" before you die. Oh, and give your money and lots of young boys.
People: Great, we'll be Baptists
Muslims: Yeah but in our heaven you get 40 virgins.
Some dudes: YEAH!
Moat women: WTAF?
Mormons: Now hold on thar Babaloo!!! Not only do you get to go to heaven when you die but in our heaven you get almost all the powers of God. But, you can't smoke or drink coffee.
Some people: Weeeelll, OK, if we can be gods.

The only thing that changes is the reward at the end.
But, if they're all right then "god" is pulling the wool over your eyes bigtime or, more likely, they're all wrong and each of them is nothing more than a scam working hand in glove with the rich, powerful, and government.

Occam's Razor tells me the later is true.

 

[hadit]

When you use in line quotes you end up looking like an idiot.
But, that's nothing new so try again.

So you decided to veer off the discussion and try to insult me with a juvenile attempt at being a grammer nazi? Let me know when you want to get back on topic.

 

[Meriweather]

Religion or something like it has been used to control people for thousands of years.

But, if they're all right then "god" is pulling the wool over your eyes bigtime or, more likely, they're all wrong and each of them is nothing more than a scam working hand in glove with the rich, powerful, and government.

Actually for thousands of years it has been government and now the woke who are trying to control religion--or get rid of it. Religion doesn't control, but it sure attracts those who want to control it.

People of faith live their own lives, following their own consciences, not the mandates of government, bureaucracies, and now the woke. It doesn't work which is why the effort to disband religion. Without religion, we the lemmings, must follow the woke, the bureaucracies, and the governments off the cliff.

Perhaps this gives a bit of insight why so many choose to follow God.

 

[hadit]

I'm sure everybody knows what faith is. Without some kind of proof, how could you possibly chose one religion over another?

And therein lies the rub. God doesn't say, "Here's proof, now believe in me", because that's not faith at all. He gives proof when faith says, "I don't understand everything, but I certainly know I'm a sinner and so I'm going to believe what you tell me and trust you to save me".

 

[Dadoalex]

So you decided to veer off the discussion and try to insult me with a juvenile attempt at being a grammer nazi? Let me know when you want to get back on topic.

Not about grammar.
When you use in line quotes your response becomes nonsensical beyond your post.
I'm trying to help but it could be that you do it on purpose knowing any response would be as nonsensical as yours.

 

[Dadoalex]

Actually for thousands of years it has been government and now the woke who are trying to control religion--or get rid of it. ...

BWAHAHAHAHA

The Holy Roman Empire
The Church of England
The Vatican
Iran
The divine Right of Kings

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Until 1789 the CHURCH WAS THE GOVERNMENT

 

[Meriweather]

Until 1789 the CHURCH WAS THE GOVERNMENT

Delve more deeply into history. The Church was used by the government. Remember, it was the elder son who was given the crown or inherited the ruling position. The younger sons were tossed over to the church.

The great thing about religion is that religion cannot mandate that we pray, that we show up at church, that we love our neighbor, etc. It is what religion teaches, and it is what people go forth to practice and we are pretty much left alone to do it.

 

[hadit]

I have, with an open mind.
And
When you study it with an open mind rather than being groomed you come to the clear conclusion that, if god were actually real, he's a complete asshole.

Just ask Job.

Ah, yes, the man who was rewarded for his faithfulness. Familiar with him.

 

[hadit]

Not about grammar.
When you use in line quotes your response becomes nonsensical beyond your post.
I'm trying to help but it could be that you do it on purpose knowing any response would be as nonsensical as yours.

Let me know if you want to get back on topic.

 

[Foxfyre]

So you're another one who believes it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you are sincere. So do you think all religions are equally valid?

I didn't say anything like that did I.

 

[Dadoalex]

Delve more deeply into history. The Church was used by the government. Remember, it was the elder son who was given the crown or inherited the ruling position. The younger sons were tossed over to the church.

The great thing about religion is that religion cannot mandate that we pray, that we show up at church, that we love our neighbor, etc. It is what religion teaches, and it is what people go forth to practice and we are pretty much left alone to do it.

Divine Right of Kings

Divine right is the notion that royalty is given divine sanction to rule. In the words of England's King James I (r. 1603–1625): “The State of MONARCHIE is the supremest thing upon earth: For Kings are not only GOD'S Lieutenants upon earth, and sit upon GOD'S throne, but even by GOD himself they are called GODS.”

Making Sense of the Divine Right of Kings - JSTOR Daily

The United States threw off the yoke of a king more than two centuries ago. Funny how we can't get enough of our erstwhile sovereigns today.

daily.jstor.org

In egypt the Pharaoh was a god. Or considered such.

In the US, prior to 1789 the church and local governments were one and the same.

It is not I who needs to study up on actual factual history.

 

[Dadoalex]

Ah, yes, the man who was rewarded for his faithfulness. Familiar with him.

After being tortured, having his family murdered, inflicted with terrible diseases, losing all he owned...

On a beer bet between God and the Devil
That God. Torturing his most loyal follower, murdering his creations by the million, attacking innocents over an argument with Pharaoh...
What a guy!

 

[Dadoalex]

Let me know if you want to get back on topic.

According to the thread here you've been off topic since the post I mentioned, including that illiterate nonsense.

 

[BULLDOG]

The Essential Question is, Why is Proof Important?

What is the most important to us? Think about it. Isn't it to be right? The only importance proof gives is an assurance something is right. Religion is kept or joined because a person sees that it is right for him/her. For example, Catholicism is right for me because I am strong on discipline, tradition, and practice. I follow its tenets and they work. For me. For my life. (And I also had to do decades of extended research to properly understand the Old Testament. That continues, and the New Testament as well for that matter.)

You said you were a Baptist. You must have found something that was not right, and like anyone else, being right is of great importance. Perhaps the Baptist take on the God of the Old Testament was not right? It simply wasn't right to love a being whose behavior is seen as both terrifying and atrocious?

We are all pretty well determined not to be wrong. What is right for you?

That is certainly the belief that many have expressed. Yours is just a different wording for "it doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you are sincere". That is contrary to Christian Cannon. It makes a mockery of "one God, one rout to salvation. "