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Illegals aren't contributing to Californians economy, they use more in services then they contribute. SHRUG1) Illegals are here, and they need to be removed. Then we don't have to worry about if they are or not receiving welfare or tax refunds they aren't entitled to via the ITIN they file with.If they used the H2A visa, then there would be no problems for them, they would have all the labor they need since there are no annual caps for the H2A nor is there a limit to how many a single farmer can bring in.As i posted several times here. I know tons of businesses and business owners and farmers. These where I based my facts and opinions when it come to this topic.
The economy is booming. Without these illegals the economy will not be this good especially here in California the 6th largest economy of the world. That’s a fact.
California Crops Rot as Immigration Crackdown Creates Farmworker Shortage
Georgia has had the same problem for years:
Georgia's Harsh Immigration Law Costs Millions in Unharvested Crops
Migrant workers still in need
"Crops went untended as the season's harvest began, and more than $1 million a day vanished as the human-fueled agricultural harvest machine of migrant labor in the United States stalled."
Ben Carson's Immigrant Visa Idea Favored By Farmers As Nation's Crops Rot
It's been an issue in Alabama for years as well and some say this is a problem nationwide (and has been for as long as the crackdowns have been going on):
Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business
Crops rot while Trump-led immigration backlash idles farm work
1. Illegals are here and they need to work instead of relying from welfare. Why is that so bad?
2. If it’s easier and cost effective to hire H2A don’t you think all of them could have done that?
Your opinion does not reflect the reality.
2)Doesn't matter if its easier or cost effective, it is what is at their disposal they refuse to use. Maybe they should mechanize and they won't have to deal with field labor ever again. SHRUG
My opinion does reflect reality, as I showed, your limited samples don't represent anything outside of your limited samples. Do you really think there are illegals working in naked/titi bars and hospitals? SMFH
1. Based from your very limited experience. You have no clue the importance of illegals contribution to California’s economy. You have no clue. Get real.
2. You own a business? Really?
Running a business cost effective is VERY important just incase you don’t know what you are talking about.
Based from I heard from you have very limited knowledge of labor force. Your opinion does not reflect reality.
I never said illegals work at titi bars and hospitals. I just gave you the examples the scopes of my experience in the labor force. Not from a landscapers.
Suddenly I know a farmer? I deal with many orchards in my business. SHRUGAgain, you posted mostly on hearsay from your little circle of people you know. SHRUGIncorrect? Yet you post no link for your support as to percentages, just your opinion based non-sense.Well which is it, most or all are illegals, yet some have green cards? I'll bet some are even US Citizens. SMFH So what if they are all Hispanic in Southern CA and AZ. PEW research gave the % number, its easy enough to look up.
As to your second link, the farmers need to use the tools they have allowed for them, namely the H2A visa, they choose not to use it. If they don't like it then they need to lobby to get it changed, but until it is they are stuck with using it, or take the chance at being caught if they knowingly hire illegals.
Incorrect. Some has green cards that’s been here for decades but the percentage is extremely very low. The % you are talking about doesn’t reflect the reality. Farmers don’t have much choices but use the available labor they have for several decades.
H2A visa is more expensive than using the illegals because you have to corral them making sure they don’t escape, provide food and housing and some forms of clothing. Why bother when you can hire existing people?
Some of these H2A people coming from Asia don’t even show up to their assigned sponsors. They just disappear from the airport.
A long time ago maybe 10 years or so kids in my neighborhood cuts grass, clean pools and wash cars etc. Today not a single one of these kids can be seen except Mexicans just like my gardener for 5 years. I pay him $145 a month to maintain my lawn 3 times a month no more than 45 minutes each time. Even if we as a whole want to hire Americans. Where are they?
I know several people that own home care where they converted their houses to take care old people here in Ca, Ar, and Hawaii. No a single white or black Americans but ONLY Mexicans or Asians are available making from $12 to $18/hour with overtime.Legal workers includes, H2A workers, LPR's, and citizens. SMFHMost illegals do not work in agriculture — only about 4 percent of the illegal-immigrant population is employed in farming. In no state is farming the predominant occupation of illegal immigrants; even in places such as California, where labor-intensive fruit-and-vegetable farming attracts a relatively large illegal workforce, the main occupations of illegals are in hospitality (restaurants and hotels), services, and transportation. Likewise, most of the people working in agriculture are not illegals: The great majority of the farming workforce is composed of legal workers, with illegals constituting about one-fourth of the total. Illegals make up a larger share of the farm workforce than they do any other labor pool, but they remain a small though not inconsequential minority of workers.
Read more at: The Specter of the $20 Avocado
How about this from PEWAgain, like I previously stated, they are not a majority workforce in any industry in the US.Although they were 5% of the overall workforce in 2012, unauthorized immigrants represent a notably higher share of workers in some industries where they are concentrated. They were 16% of employees in the agriculture industry, 12% of employees in the construction industry and 9% of employees in the leisure and hospitality industry.
Unauthorized immigrants are particularly concentrated in some subsets of each major industry. In 2012, they represented 24% of workers in the landscaping industry, 23% of those in private household employment, 20% of those in apparel manufacturing, 20% in crop production, 19% in the dry cleaning and laundry industry and 19% of those in building maintenance.
Chapter 2: Industries of Unauthorized Immigrant Workers
Where I live the lawn care guys are all white with the exception of the commercial landscapers that do the city contracts. As for in home health care, I see Asians predominantly, whites and blacks. House cleaning services I see both Hispanic and White, in fact I have a white US Citizen that comes and cleans my house weekly. SHRUG
Just because you see something in specific areas doesn't mean it is that way everywhere.
Very funny.
Again I post based on experience and reality.
I asked you to provide me the locations you are talking about. Where is that?
I do not need to show you a link to support what I’m saying. So if I know a large farmer owners In California and Arizona. what made you think the next door farmers are doing any different?
I already prove to you that H2A is a joke and not cost effective.
I also used Molly maids to clean both of my houses and they are illegals from Cuba and Mexico.
Where you live? That’s funny. You are giving me your very limited experience. How many health care owners that you know one? How about If i will tell you about 40 home care owners located here in California, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and Hawaii.
Funny. I never said illegals are the majority of workforce in America.
I know farmers too in California and Texas, in fact I do work for some, their experiences are much different. And as I pointed out roughly 1/4 of farm workers are illegals. There is not a single industry in which illegals make up the majority of workers. You proved the H2A is a Joke? LMFAO Your opinion is not proof of anything. SMFH
You really need to brush up on your English Comprehension.
I gave you my opinion and what I see along with numerous links that you don't seem to adept at understanding. Either back up your inept opinion or come up with something new.
Suddenly you know a farmer. Very funny. I posted over and over on separate and different threads about farmers I know for almost 3 years. If you think I have a limited knowledge of workforce. But for sure I know far more than a landscaper.
Again I never said illegals are the majority of American workers.
Democrats and RINO Lindsey Graham are for a path to citizenship for the Dreamers, etc.That’s why I didn’t say in the short term. If the millions currently here are given a path to citizenship then they will be able to vote. Isn’t that what is currently being hashed out with DACA? I am not necessarily against giving the dreamers legal status. I am against giving millions a path to citizenship ahead of those that follow the rules and immigrant legally. And if the millions that are currently here are granted a path to citizenship, we are going to simply repeat the cycle started by Reagan when amnesty was granted in the 80s if we don’t take measures to secure the border.There is little to no credible evidence that illegals vote in appreciable numbers.Dems are after more Democrat voters in the medium to long run.I know! Let's have open borders and sanctuary cities and states everywhere so you do can pretty much do whatever you want up including shooting people and get away with it. Oh, and then let's give 'em every benefit that American citizens get, the whole 9 yards. Most of 'em will vote democrat so we'll be back in charge! The country will go to hell in a handbasket but who cares, we'll blame the repubs!
Why do you limit yourself to this nonsensical idea of allowing the Dreamers to become citizens at all?
Reality check: Citizenship is NOT doled out on a first come first served basis. That's just the way it is.
What do you not understand about the concept that legal status need NOT end in citizenship?
Democrats and RINO Lindsey Graham are for a path to citizenship for the Dreamers, etc.That’s why I didn’t say in the short term. If the millions currently here are given a path to citizenship then they will be able to vote. Isn’t that what is currently being hashed out with DACA? I am not necessarily against giving the dreamers legal status. I am against giving millions a path to citizenship ahead of those that follow the rules and immigrant legally. And if the millions that are currently here are granted a path to citizenship, we are going to simply repeat the cycle started by Reagan when amnesty was granted in the 80s if we don’t take measures to secure the border.There is little to no credible evidence that illegals vote in appreciable numbers.Dems are after more Democrat voters in the medium to long run.I know! Let's have open borders and sanctuary cities and states everywhere so you do can pretty much do whatever you want up including shooting people and get away with it. Oh, and then let's give 'em every benefit that American citizens get, the whole 9 yards. Most of 'em will vote democrat so we'll be back in charge! The country will go to hell in a handbasket but who cares, we'll blame the repubs!
Why do you limit yourself to this nonsensical idea of allowing the Dreamers to become citizens at all?
Reality check: Citizenship is NOT doled out on a first come first served basis. That's just the way it is.
What do you not understand about the concept that legal status need NOT end in citizenship?
I agree. There is another post somewhere in this thread that I state that I would not mind if the dreamers are granted legal status but not citizenship with the condition that immigration law is enforced so that we are not repeating the cycle.Democrats and RINO Lindsey Graham are for a path to citizenship for the Dreamers, etc.That’s why I didn’t say in the short term. If the millions currently here are given a path to citizenship then they will be able to vote. Isn’t that what is currently being hashed out with DACA? I am not necessarily against giving the dreamers legal status. I am against giving millions a path to citizenship ahead of those that follow the rules and immigrant legally. And if the millions that are currently here are granted a path to citizenship, we are going to simply repeat the cycle started by Reagan when amnesty was granted in the 80s if we don’t take measures to secure the border.There is little to no credible evidence that illegals vote in appreciable numbers.Dems are after more Democrat voters in the medium to long run.
Why do you limit yourself to this nonsensical idea of allowing the Dreamers to become citizens at all?
Reality check: Citizenship is NOT doled out on a first come first served basis. That's just the way it is.
What do you not understand about the concept that legal status need NOT end in citizenship?
Lindsey Graham will probably become a D after the next election cycle.
I'd let the Dreamers stay, but the only "paths to citizenship" ought to be connected to things like maybe a stint in the military, and if that is not doable for them, maybe using a college degree in a field the government could utilize - say two years service working for the government (i.e. a doctor at the VA or maybe utilizing an engineering degree in a needed field.)
I agree. There is another post somewhere in this thread that I state that I would not mind if the dreamers are granted legal status but not citizenship with the condition that immigration law is enforced so that we are not repeating the cycle.Democrats and RINO Lindsey Graham are for a path to citizenship for the Dreamers, etc.That’s why I didn’t say in the short term. If the millions currently here are given a path to citizenship then they will be able to vote. Isn’t that what is currently being hashed out with DACA? I am not necessarily against giving the dreamers legal status. I am against giving millions a path to citizenship ahead of those that follow the rules and immigrant legally. And if the millions that are currently here are granted a path to citizenship, we are going to simply repeat the cycle started by Reagan when amnesty was granted in the 80s if we don’t take measures to secure the border.There is little to no credible evidence that illegals vote in appreciable numbers.
Why do you limit yourself to this nonsensical idea of allowing the Dreamers to become citizens at all?
Reality check: Citizenship is NOT doled out on a first come first served basis. That's just the way it is.
What do you not understand about the concept that legal status need NOT end in citizenship?
Lindsey Graham will probably become a D after the next election cycle.
I'd let the Dreamers stay, but the only "paths to citizenship" ought to be connected to things like maybe a stint in the military, and if that is not doable for them, maybe using a college degree in a field the government could utilize - say two years service working for the government (i.e. a doctor at the VA or maybe utilizing an engineering degree in a needed field.)
I base it on his own words.
Right wing studies seem to be flawed.Illegals aren't contributing to Californians economy, they use more in services then they contribute. SHRUG1) Illegals are here, and they need to be removed. Then we don't have to worry about if they are or not receiving welfare or tax refunds they aren't entitled to via the ITIN they file with.If they used the H2A visa, then there would be no problems for them, they would have all the labor they need since there are no annual caps for the H2A nor is there a limit to how many a single farmer can bring in.Georgia has had the same problem for years:
Georgia's Harsh Immigration Law Costs Millions in Unharvested Crops
Migrant workers still in need
"Crops went untended as the season's harvest began, and more than $1 million a day vanished as the human-fueled agricultural harvest machine of migrant labor in the United States stalled."
Ben Carson's Immigrant Visa Idea Favored By Farmers As Nation's Crops Rot
It's been an issue in Alabama for years as well and some say this is a problem nationwide (and has been for as long as the crackdowns have been going on):
Alabama Illegal Immigrant Crackdown Destroys Farm Business
Crops rot while Trump-led immigration backlash idles farm work
1. Illegals are here and they need to work instead of relying from welfare. Why is that so bad?
2. If it’s easier and cost effective to hire H2A don’t you think all of them could have done that?
Your opinion does not reflect the reality.
2)Doesn't matter if its easier or cost effective, it is what is at their disposal they refuse to use. Maybe they should mechanize and they won't have to deal with field labor ever again. SHRUG
My opinion does reflect reality, as I showed, your limited samples don't represent anything outside of your limited samples. Do you really think there are illegals working in naked/titi bars and hospitals? SMFH
1. Based from your very limited experience. You have no clue the importance of illegals contribution to California’s economy. You have no clue. Get real.
2. You own a business? Really?
Running a business cost effective is VERY important just incase you don’t know what you are talking about.
Based from I heard from you have very limited knowledge of labor force. Your opinion does not reflect reality.
I never said illegals work at titi bars and hospitals. I just gave you the examples the scopes of my experience in the labor force. Not from a landscapers.
Yes, my own business. That's right you need to be cost effective when running a business. SMFH
Your labor force experiences seem to frequent industries that don't have illegals working in them. SHRUG
the right wing has nothing but fallacy instead of better solutions at lower cost.I base it on his own words.
Do you have any specific examples? Proven factual evidence? No, you don't.
What you are doing is deriving the conclusion you DESIRE based on hearse and emotion.
You WANT to hear that Trump is a racist....so you mentally build the case based on your emotions.
This is actually quite common for Left brained (notice I haven't yet said hair-brained) Leftist.
Unlike you, as always, I back my assertions with evidence from credible (non leftist, emotionally biased) sources.
Liberals are more emotion-driven than conservatives
Right wing studies seem to be flawed.
the right wing has nothing but fallacy instead of better solutions at lower cost.
Financing a tax cut while claiming it is Your money, is emotional, not rational.Right wing studies seem to be flawed.
To Leftist-Brained individuals....this will seem to be the case.
But it is scientifically proven the Right is more Logic based while the Left is more emotion based.
Basically, Men on the Left think like women. Fact.
Women are more emotionally biased in their thoughts than non-Leftist men. Another fact.
While it may not be "politically correct" to present these facts, I don't give a shit about being PC.
I'm driven by facts.
Liberals are more emotion-driven than conservatives
The right wing may be right, twice a day. The rest is usually just fallacy.the right wing has nothing but fallacy instead of better solutions at lower cost.
And.....
That would be another emotionally based" statement lacking in credibility or substantiation.
Again, typical for your Leftist brained, emotional thinking
Here.....Read.....Learn....Grow.....Evolve....
Liberals are more emotion-driven than conservatives
However, most on the right understand (being capable of rational, un-emotional thinking) that your rising above your emotions is unlikely. Hence your propensity to remain a supporter of corrupt Leftist politicians and Media because they have captured your emotions fully through clever propaganda.
Financing a tax cut while claiming it is Your money, is emotional, not rational.
The right wing may be right, twice a day. The rest is usually just fallacy.the right wing has nothing but fallacy instead of better solutions at lower cost.
And.....
That would be another emotionally based" statement lacking in credibility or substantiation.
Again, typical for your Leftist brained, emotional thinking
Here.....Read.....Learn....Grow.....Evolve....
Liberals are more emotion-driven than conservatives
However, most on the right understand (being capable of rational, un-emotional thinking) that your rising above your emotions is unlikely. Hence your propensity to remain a supporter of corrupt Leftist politicians and Media because they have captured your emotions fully through clever propaganda.
Government has to be funded. Our debt keeps growing and the right wing has no solutions; yet, they claim they are more fiscally responsible than the, tax and spend, left.Financing a tax cut while claiming it is Your money, is emotional, not rational.
Yet, you would assert that tax increases are somehow NOT "your money" ?
Again, your emotional bias clearly at work.
Thanks for playing...but I admit, your simple game bores me quickly.
You are so busy with your labels you can’t be bothered to read what people write can you? For example I already said I am on the fence with the racist thing because I found Slade’s argument that it is class driven compelling. I am willing to concede Trump is just an asshole or garden variety bigot, but not a racist.I base it on his own words.
Do you have any specific examples? Proven factual evidence? No, you don't.
What you are doing is deriving the conclusion you DESIRE based on hearse and emotion.
You WANT to hear that Trump is a racist....so you mentally build the case based on your emotions.
This is actually quite common for Left brained (notice I haven't yet said hair-brained) Leftist.
Unlike you, as always, I back my assertions with evidence from credible (non leftist, emotionally biased) sources.
Liberals are more emotion-driven than conservatives
Lindsey Graham will probably become a D after the next election cycle.
If illegals voted, are you sure they all voted blue and not red; especially in low population red States, where it would make more of an electoral difference.About the question of credible evidence that millions of illegals voted, the following is from Investors Business Daily. Couldn't say if they are biased or not but this piece does represent the views of a lot of people. Doesn't make it true of course, but IMHO those who claim there's almost no illegal voting at all are refusing to face reality.
excerpt:
Most follow the same theme: Trump foolishly followed the faulty analysis of Gregg Phillips of True The Vote, an online anti-voter-fraud site and app. Phillips estimates that illegals cast three million votes in the 2016 election. He's wrong, say the media. Heck, even the liberal fact-checking site FactCheck.org says so.
But, in fact, it's almost certain that illegals did vote — and in significant numbers. Whether it was three million or not is another question.
While states control the voter registration process, some states are so notoriously slipshod in their controls (California, Virginia and New York — all of which have political movements to legalize voting by noncitizens — come to mind) that it would be shocking if many illegals didn't vote. Remember, a low-ball estimate says there are at least 11 million to 12 million illegals in the U.S., but that's based on faulty Census data. More likely estimates put the number at 20 million to 30 million.
What's disappointing is that instead of at least seriously considering Trump's charge, many media reports merely parrot leftist talking points and anti-Trump rhetoric by pushing the idea that Republicans and others not of the progressive left who seek to limit voting to citizens only are racist, xenophobic nuts.
But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.
"We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections," wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University.
More specifically, they write, "Noncitizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress."
Specifically, the authors say that illegals may have cast as many as 2.8 million votes in 2008 and 2010. That's a lot of votes. And when you consider the population of illegal inhabitants has only grown since then, it's not unreasonable to suppose that their vote has, too.
Critics note that a Harvard team in 2015 had responded to the study, calling it "biased." But that report included this gem: "Further, the likely percent of noncitizen voters in recent U.S. elections is 0."
Really? That's simply preposterous, frankly, as anyone who has lived in California can attest. Leftist get-out-the-vote groups openly urge noncitizens to vote during election time, and the registration process is notoriously loose. To suggest there is no illegal voting at all is absurd.
What's appalling, as we said, is not the media's skepticism, but its denial. But why? Illegal votes shouldn't be allowed to sway U.S. elections. So why tolerate them?
When the far left began insinuating that the Russians had hacked the election, the media treated the nonsupported claims with the utmost of respect. They still do. But not Trump's suggestion that illegals voted, and in large numbers, mainly for Democratic candidates, including Hillary Clinton.
And, yes, Trump is right: Illegal votes may in part explain why Hillary now has a nearly two-million-vote lead in the popular vote, even though she lost convincingly in the Electoral College. A Rasmussen Reports poll earlier this year found that 53% of the Democratic Party supports letting illegals vote, even though it's against the law. It's pretty clear why.
Yes, there is room for skepticism of any claim that's made. But every vote cast by someone who isn't by law permitted to vote disenfranchises American citizens. The charge should at least be taken seriously.
Trump Is Right — Millions Of Illegals Probably Did Vote In 2016 | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD
