Racial Differences in Intelligence: What Mainstream Science Says

[JBeukema]

Racial Differences in Intelligence: What Mainstream Science Says.

 

[William Joyce]

Yet the conclusion is so "icky", mainstream media and politicians won't touch it. I understand why people are afraid of it... if this is true, America with a minority-white population will soon drop from Greatest Nation on Earth to somewhere on par with Jordan or Portugal for national prominence, output and living standard. The remaining whites will be living in gated, guarded communities and need bodyguards to go to private malls. The national systems of administration, especially Social Security and other welfare, will collapse, the dollar will be thwacked by the yen, yuan and euro, and the whole thing will go tribal.

 

[Agnapostate]

I don't imagine that a general difference of 15 IQ points between averages for whites and blacks (and a smaller difference between whites and various subgroups of Hispanics, as well as Asians and Jews) constitutes a sufficient basis for policy formation that involves racial discrimination, even if there was a genetic basis for such differences. More importantly, whatever genetic basis does exist (if it does) is likely a relatively slight one, and it's of course the case that environmental differences are the more likely culprit. For example, some credit the Flynn effect (the increase in average IQ that occurred over several decades) to the expansion of intellectual stimulation in early childhood and throughout the school years, which would have adversely affected blacks unable to reap such benefits due to the institutionalization of poverty and generally poor conditions.

Moreover, the available empirical research validates the assessment of a primarily environmental basis for such IQ differences. For example, we could consult Dickens and Flynn's (for whom the Flynn effect is named) Black Americans Reduce the Racial IQ Gap: Evidence from Standardization Samples. Consider the abstract:

It is often asserted that blacks have made no IQ gains on whites, despite relative environmental gains, and that this adds credibility to the case that the black/white IQ gap has genetic origins. Until recently, there have been no adequate data to measure black IQ trends. We analyze data from nine standardization samples for four major tests of cognitive ability. These suggest that blacks have gained 5 or 6 IQ points on non-Hispanic whites between 1972 and 2002. Gains have been fairly uniform across the entire range of black cognitive ability.

The increases in various test scores would be illustrated as this:

Obviously, greater integration efforts would maximize these IQ gains further. I'm of the opinion that this would require libertarian education and a socialist economy, but I'll not derail this thread with elaboration on that. Let's just focus on the broad topic of race and IQ.

 

[JBeukema]

I don't imagine that a general difference of {IQ}...constitutes a sufficient basis for policy formation that involves racial discrimination, even if there was a genetic basis for such differences.

I have no proposed any such policies. Indeed, every respected person or group involved in this research always echoes the same not: that this knowledge is to be used to better understand the world around us and. Noone (save possibly Tank, who I believe we all feel comfortable dismissing outright ) is proposing any racially-biased policies. This merely puts things into perspective and help us to better understand the world around us. Why are a disproportionately high number of high-paying carrers in 'intelligent' fieels staffed with Semeits, Asians, and Whites? because a disproportionate number f those races have a hugher IQ, on average, than members of other races. Conversely, why does the NBA hve such a disproportionately high number of blacks? because the fact is that a disproportionate number of blacks apossess the rewuisite physical attributes and abilites that allow them to succeed in such areas, caompared to Whites or Asiatics. This has long been recognized as 'folk knowledge'; now we have scientific cinformation.

More importantly, whatever genetic basis does exist (if it does) is likely a relatively slight one

According the the most recent data availade, genetic factors appear to account for rougly 50% of the g-factor of an individual

, and it's of course the case that environmental differences are the more likely culprit.

Did you read the studies? The point of the studies was that the claims that it is primarily enviromental factors that explains racial differences in g are refuted by the evidence.

For example, some credit the Flynn effect (the increase in average IQ that occurred over several decades) to the expansion of intellectual stimulation in early childhood and throughout the school years, which would have adversely affected blacks unable to reap such benefits due to the institutionalization of poverty and generally poor conditions.

Except that differences are evident by age three, among different races of simlilar social class. To deny the genetic factor or the inherent differences between the races is simply not in line with the evidence.

Moreover, the available empirical research validates the assessment of a primarily environmental basis for such IQ differences.

not so. The studies I have posted in these threads state outright that they concluded that such claims are not accurate.


Also, the shrinking of the gap between the races is easily explained by increasing interbreeding between the races.

Obviously, greater integration efforts would maximize these IQ gains further

You can reduce or eliminate enviromental factors, but genetic and racial differences remain.

 

[editec]

I would dearly love to see a bell curve study done on the USA population based on CLASS.

I'm betting that we'd find there isn't that there isn't a strong correlation between IQ and social class or incomes.

Some, but not much would be my guess.

 

[Agnapostate]

I have no proposed any such policies.

I didn't claim that you had. However, William Joyce actively does, and I was not specifically addressing you.

Indeed, every respected person or group involved in this research always echoes the same not: that this knowledge is to be used to better understand the world around us and. Noone (save possibly Tank, who I believe we all feel comfortable dismissing outright ) is proposing any racially-biased policies.

Nope. Outright dismissal of radical proposals is rendered insufficient and irrational in light of the reality that the radical ideology typically becomes the conservative or reactionary ideology by the next century. Of course, to put it more specifically, white nationalist ideology *is* presently reactionary, but there's still not a sound basis for dismissing radical sentiments without rational analysis.

This merely puts things into perspective and help us to better understand the world around us. Why are a disproportionately high number of high-paying carrers in 'intelligent' fieels staffed with Semeits, Asians, and Whites? because a disproportionate number f those races have a hugher IQ, on average, than members of other races. Conversely, why does the NBA hve such a disproportionately high number of blacks? because the fact is that a disproportionate number of blacks apossess the rewuisite physical attributes and abilites that allow them to succeed in such areas, caompared to Whites or Asiatics. This has long been recognized as 'folk knowledge'; now we have scientific cinformation.

None of this conflicts with anything that I've said. As for the rest of your comments, this cannot progress further until you post the specific empirical research that you're referring to so that I can read and analyze it.

 

[editec]

I read Bell Curve many years ago when it was actually NEWS.

I don't doubt its findings.

I do have a question or two though.

So, what of it?

Is there some public policy we should put in place as a result of these findings?

 

[William Joyce]

I read Bell Curve many years ago when it was actually NEWS.

I don't doubt its findings.

I do have a question or two though.

So, what of it?

Is there some public policy we should put in place as a result of these findings?

Yes. Or, rather, the REMOVAL of some public policies.

Number 1. Affirmative action. AA is a policy based on the idea that the only reason blacks aren't represented proportionally is because of white racism, the effects of slavery, etc. But this is obviously not the whole story. Much of the difference is explained by inherent differences. In other words, it's nobody's fault blacks are less intelligent... they just ARE. We need to account for this before we complain that we don't have a proportional number of black brain surgeons.

Number 2. The "No Child Left Behind" Act. This law assumes that all children are, as in Lake Wobegone, "above average." No such luck. Not every child is a secret genius just waiting to emerge upon the proper amount of government funding.

Number 3. Forced integration. Like AA, it's based on the notion that the only reason blacks have lower test scores, lesser housing, etc. is their non-proximity to whites. Again, not so. Integration a la Brown v. Board has done NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, over the years to make blacks smarter or more successful. Kill it.

Number 4. Forced employment of blacks. The EEOC assumes that if you don't have a certain percentage of blacks at your company, you're racist. Again, not so.

Number 5. Shut the media the fuck up. The media constantly goes on about the difficulties faced by blacks AS IF DEVIATION FROM WHITE STANDARDS is an unusual state of affairs attributable to white racism. Again, I say, NOT SO. Blacks can naturally be expected to have higher rates of crime, child abandonment, etc. Don't constantly badger us with this as if it's whites' fault.

The trillions of social welfare dollars that have gone from whites to blacks over the decades is a crime of massive proportions... essentially, theft by deception.

 

[William Joyce]

I would dearly love to see a bell curve study done on the USA population based on CLASS.

I'm betting that we'd find there isn't that there isn't a strong correlation between IQ and social class or incomes.

Some, but not much would be my guess.

I think Herrnstein and Murray addressed this, and what they found was that IQ and income correlate very strongly, AS IF RACE WEREN'T A FACTOR.

In other words, blacks with high IQ's were rich and whites with low IQ's were poor.

DEVASTATING information for those pushing the line that America is a terrible racist country... in fact, when blacks have the natural stuff, they do just fine.

Lynn's work lays out this idea and the data supporting it pretty well.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Global-Bell-Curve-Inequality-Worldwide/dp/1593680287[/ame]

 

[editec]

I read Bell Curve many years ago when it was actually NEWS.

I don't doubt its findings.

I do have a question or two though.

So, what of it?

Is there some public policy we should put in place as a result of these findings?

Yes. Or, rather, the REMOVAL of some public policies.

Number 1. Affirmative action. AA is a policy based on the idea that the only reason blacks aren't represented proportionally is because of white racism, the effects of slavery, etc. But this is obviously not the whole story. Much of the difference is explained by inherent differences. In other words, it's nobody's fault blacks are less intelligent... they just ARE. We need to account for this before we complain that we don't have a proportional number of black brain surgeons.

You and I have had this discussion already. We both object to the inherent racism/genderism of that law.

Number 2. The "No Child Left Behind" Act. This law assumes that all children are, as in Lake Wobegone, "above average." No such luck. Not every child is a secret genius just waiting to emerge upon the proper amount of government funding.

It was a dumb law..a dumb REPUBLICAN law, I note.

Number 3. Forced integration. Like AA, it's based on the notion that the only reason blacks have lower test scores, lesser housing, etc. is their non-proximity to whites. Again, not so. Integration a la Brown v. Board has done NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, over the years to make blacks smarter or more successful. Kill it.

I fully support the elimination of descrimination based on race or gender or religion or political leanings in the public sector.

As a member of the American National Socialist Party, so should YOU!

Number 4. Forced employment of blacks. The EEOC assumes that if you don't have a certain percentage of blacks at your company, you're racist. Again, not so.

I don't think it actually works that way.

Number 5. Shut the media the fuck up. The media constantly goes on about the difficulties faced by blacks AS IF DEVIATION FROM WHITE STANDARDS is an unusual state of affairs attributable to white racism. Again, I say, NOT SO. Blacks can naturally be expected to have higher rates of crime, child abandonment, etc. Don't constantly badger us with this as if it's whites' fault.

Shutting the media up is a violation of the First Amendment

The trillions of social welfare dollars that have gone from whites to blacks over the decades is a crime of massive proportions... essentially, theft by deception.

I'm a supporter of public welfare in most cases.

I might implement the policies differently, of course, but you know me...I'm a nature born complainer.

 

[William Joyce]

It was a dumb law..a dumb REPUBLICAN law, I note.

Well, a BUSH law. He himself probably occupies a low point on the bell curve.

But Republicans are just as dense on these issues as anyone, and perhaps more so. Republicans won't touch the race/IQ information with a ten-foot pole because their prime directive is "don't be accused of racism."

 

[jgbkab]

I have no proposed any such policies. Indeed, every respected person or group involved in this research always echoes the same not: that this knowledge is to be used to better understand the world around us and. Noone (save possibly Tank, who I believe we all feel comfortable dismissing outright ) is proposing any racially-biased policies. This merely puts things into perspective and help us to better understand the world around us. Why are a disproportionately high number of high-paying carrers in 'intelligent' fieels staffed with Semeits, Asians, and Whites? because a disproportionate number f those races have a hugher IQ, on average, than members of other races. Conversely, why does the NBA hve such a disproportionately high number of blacks? because the fact is that a disproportionate number of blacks apossess the rewuisite physical attributes and abilites that allow them to succeed in such areas, caompared to Whites or Asiatics. This has long been recognized as 'folk knowledge'; now we have scientific cinformation.

This is not scientific confirmation. There are only statistics from questions given to groups that self-reported.

Did you read the studies? The point of the studies was that the claims that it is primarily enviromental factors that explains racial differences in g are refuted by the evidence.

Did the study include environmental factors at the time of the study or during the education years of the particular races? What I mean is that if you had a 30 year old in 1994 taking this study, they would have received their education in the 60s and 70s. The education received back then for Blacks is no where near what they receive now.

Also, the shrinking of the gap between the races is easily explained by increasing interbreeding between the races.

No, the shrinking of the gap is because Blacks now are receiving better education. Sometimes on par with Whites and Asians.

You can reduce or eliminate enviromental factors, but genetic and racial differences remain.

I know you want to believe that because you have the need to feel superior. You already conceded the NBA to Blacks, you're going to milk the IQ thing for what you can. You might want to take The Bell Curve to the next level and pick up The Bell Curve Debate.

 

[Oddball]

It was a dumb law..a dumb REPUBLICAN law, I note.

Shrubbie only signed it...Ted Kennedy was its principal author.

 

[jgbkab]

It was a dumb law..a dumb REPUBLICAN law, I note.

Shrubbie only signed it...Ted Kennedy was its principal author.

That was a 2000 campaign promise from Bush, regardless of who authored it.

 

[Oddball]

Nondescript "education reform" has been a promise every demopublicratican has made since at least the creation of the federal Department of Edumacation.

Fact remains that Ted Kennedy was the primary author of NCLB.

The incompetence is clearly collaborative.

 

[jgbkab]

Agreed.

 

[JBeukema]

I would dearly love to see a bell curve study done on the USA population based on CLASS.

I'm betting that we'd find there isn't that there isn't a strong correlation between IQ and social class or incomes.

Some, but not much would be my guess.

Remember that IQ does not measure education

 

[Oddball]

I would dearly love to see a bell curve study done on the USA population based on CLASS.

I'm betting that we'd find there isn't that there isn't a strong correlation between IQ and social class or incomes.

Some, but not much would be my guess.

Remember that IQ does not measure education

Indeed.

I know of some rather highly educated people who only "know" what they've been told.

 

[JBeukema]

Yes. Or, rather, the REMOVAL of some public policies.

Number 1. Affirmative action.

Number 3. Forced integration. Like AA, it's based on the notion that the only reason blacks have lower test scores, lesser housing, etc. is their non-proximity to whites. Again, not so. Integration a la Brown v. Board has done NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, over the years to make blacks smarter or more successful. Kill it.

Wrong. Forced integration is aimed at stopping the segregation and oppression of any race.

I think Herrnstein and Murray addressed this, and what they found was that IQ and income correlate very strongly, AS IF RACE WEREN'T A FACTOR.

In other words, blacks with high IQ's were rich and whites with low IQ's were poor.

DEVASTATING information for those pushing the line that America is a terrible racist country... in fact, when blacks have the natural stuff, they do just fine.

it is IQ, not race, that is important. Race is relevant to the extent that the different races have different average IQs

Lynn's work lays out this idea and the data supporting it pretty well.

No, the shrinking of the gap is because Blacks now are receiving better education. Sometimes on par with Whites and Asians.

Education has nothing to do with IQ. The GFactor and other measures of IQ measure overall potential and the natural ability to learn, not eduation.

I know you want to believe that because you have the need to feel superior

That is merely a pathetic ad hom attack

. You already conceded the NBA to Blacks, you're going to milk the IQ thing for what you can.

it is you who picks and chooses the evidence. You want to beleieve that 'white men can't jump', yet you ignore any evidence that suggests thjat, on the average, negropids are less intelligent.

Try coming back when youi know what you're talking about; if I 'wanted to feel superior', i would not have cited the evidence I have cited, which shows that the highest average among the major races iq beloings to mongoloids, with eastern asians coming at the top

Moron

 

[jgbkab]

Moron,

Education has nothing to do with IQ. The GFactor and other measures of IQ measure overall potential and the natural ability to learn, not eduation.

Education has a lot to do with IQ and if you think differently, you're shitting yourself. If you couldn't read words longer than 5 letters, how do you think you would fare on an IQ test? You have to learn how to solve problems, dude. It doesn't come naturally. Even babies start out trying to put the square block into the round whole.

That is merely a pathetic ad hom attack

Seemed appropriate.

it is you who picks and chooses the evidence. You want to beleieve that 'white men can't jump', yet you ignore any evidence that suggests thjat, on the average, negropids are less intelligent.

I never said white men can't jump. You said that they're not equipped for the NBA. There are and have been plenty of great white NBA players. Hell, Yao was just a tall, bumbling fool when he came to the NBA. He doesn't play that way now does he. His IQ must have dropped to "negropid" levels.

Try coming back when youi know what you're talking about; if I 'wanted to feel superior', i would not have cited the evidence I have cited, which shows that the highest average among the major races iq beloings to mongoloids, with eastern asians coming at the top

Moron

You have not cited evidence, that's opinion. It's not very intelligent to take opinion as fact.