Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[bripat9643]

I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

Wrong. You don't when you're talking about thugs assaulting innocent people. Only douche bags who want to obscure the truth do that.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

All speech is hate speech. Anyone not a communist is a nazi.

This nation needs to split apart ASAP.

 

[Lakhota]

Our laws should determine "hate speech" - and prosecuted accordingly. "Hate speech" is much like pornography - most of us know it when we see or hear it.

You are no better than these neo-Nazi loons, so I don't know what makes you think you have any moral high ground here.

Really? Please give me some examples.

DanK

 

[OKTexas]

How funny is it to hear rightwing bigots of various stripes demanding their constitutional right to oppose constitutional rights?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right here is the problem, everyone who disagrees with the left is a bigot, racist or what ever, they have to be demonized and dehumanized to justify the hate coming form the left, while they attempt to claim some moral high ground. The reality is this poster and many others are nothing but Alinksy acolytes who wish to destroy the very fabric of the country.


.

I referred to the rightwingers who are bigots, not the ones who are not.

No need to start back peddling now, you folks have called anyone who wants our immigration laws enforced or want to properly vet people coming into the country, bigots and racist. Hell I was called a nazi sympathizer by a regressive and a fagot by a nazi all in the same evening, just for standing up for the right to speech for all Americans and condemning the veto of rights by a mob.


.

 

[Avatar4321]

Another picture of the hate and stupidity of the Alt Left that was shown today. The Moon Bat bitch would have made a great Nazi, wouldn't she?


View attachment 144763

Which one is the nazi?

 

[Richard-H]

Did you not learn about the Declaration of Independence or enlightenment philosophy in school?

It seems that where this country went wrong is that too many Americans forgot the basic principals that this country was founded upon.

Those who oppose those principals are un-American and void their rights under those principals.

"Those who oppose those principals are un-American and void their rights under those principals."

And by the way, where is this rule written, please?
.

Specifically in 'the Rights of Man and of the Citizen'. But the idea that anyone's rights are limited to the point that infringe upon the rights of another is a well accepted concept in American philosophy and law. Preaching the infringment of other peoples rights should equally be considered to unaccepted.

Of course forcing someone to create and decorate a cake that they disagree with, by force of law, is not an infringement on their rights, correct?


.

There is no such thing as either an unalienable or Constitutional right to do business. It requires a business license and is a privilege, not a right.

Funny I've had a couple of businesses and had nothing but a sales tax number. I guess the rights to LIFE, LIBERTY and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS only applies if you're independently wealthy and don't have to work to provide for your family. Business licenses are nothing more than a ploy to control people and pick their pockets by regressive governments.


.

Running a business is a privilege, not a right. Any business must meet the requirements set by government.

If you thought that the right to liberty means that you have absolute freedom to do anything you want, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Slade3200]

I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

Wrong. You don't when you're talking about thugs assaulting innocent people. Only douche bags who want to obscure the truth do that.

You've stated your position and I've stated mine. We shall see who the nation sides with... I think its pretty obvious by now but keep watching...

 

[Avatar4321]

"Yeah, I'm all about freedom of speech n' stuff, as long as it doesn't offend me, if I don't like the way it's said, or if I think it should offend someone else, or if I just don't like it in general."

What the fuck. What happened to this country?

Did you not learn about the Declaration of Independence or enlightenment philosophy in school?

It seems that where this country went wrong is that too many Americans forgot the basic principals that this country was founded upon.

Those who oppose those principals are un-American and void their rights under those principals.

Since when are inalienable rights void?

You are right. We left the principles that built this nation.

The Christian principles

 

[bripat9643]

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

No...you suffer from "white racists are the only problem"....the ones who have been murdering police officers and violently attacking peaceful protestors for close to 2 years.....you ignore.

Whats wrong with you man... What have I ever said to imply that white racists are the ONLY problem? I'm just pointing our the importance of make a strong statement denouncing them and not doing the quick pivot back to the left like you and our leader do. There are plenty of problems with ANTIFA and BLM and the Left and the Right. We can talk about those when the time is right. Talking about them when the White Racists are making a push only fuels their cause.

In other words, any mention of ANTIFA and BLM is "not fair." Sorry, but including them in the discussion is the essence of fair.

 

[bripat9643]

All sides have killed millions.

Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"

Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.

But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.

Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

Wrong. You don't when you're talking about thugs assaulting innocent people. Only douche bags who want to obscure the truth do that.

You've stated your position and I've stated mine. We shall see who the nation sides with... I think its pretty obvious by now but keep watching...

We already know who the fake media sides with. The only question is whether the public will fall for it. Polls indicate they won't.

 

[OKTexas]

How funny is it to hear rightwing bigots of various stripes demanding their constitutional right to oppose constitutional rights?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right here is the problem, everyone who disagrees with the left is a bigot, racist or what ever, they have to be demonized and dehumanized to justify the hate coming form the left, while they attempt to claim some moral high ground. The reality is this poster and many others are nothing but Alinksy acolytes who wish to destroy the very fabric of the country.


.

Not all Conservatives or even alt-right people are considered racists or bigots by the left. Lot's of their views are respected if not agreed with. Economic populism, anti free trade are a few.

The fact that these people have allowed themselves to become associated with groups that profess extremely un-American views is their won fault.

If you consider the KKK and NAZIS to be part of the 'fabric of this country', then yes, we definitely want to destroy that fabric.

Nonsense. The left frequently calls anyone who disagrees with them as racist regardless of why they are disagreeing.

That's your problem! And the problem of almost all Conservatives in an nutshell!

There is no such thing as 'the left'. I am an individual and speak for myself only. No one speaks for me.

I do not call everyone that I disagree with a racist.

It's the Conservatives in this country that tend to adopt 'lock-step' political points of view. It's the Conservatives that have adopted the term alt-right.

Just look at the Charlottesville 'Unite the Right' rally. Non-racist Conservatives chose to 'Unite' with the KKK, neo-NAZis and other White supremist groups. Your choice to unite into one political block.

If liberals united they way conservatives do there would not be a conservative in governement. Liberals are individuals.

The entire 'Occupy Wall St' movement amounted to nothing because liberals never seem to unite or agree on anything.

If Conservatives had the same sense of individuality that liberals have, there would be no 'Unite the Right'.

So don't blame me for what anyone else has said. That's their opinion. not mine.

Well child you might want to relay those sentiments to your leadership. everyone of them are calling all "republicans" racist, bigots and murders. Yeah, they are claiming we want to kill people.

Also you only need look at congress to know the "right" is NOT in political lockstep. The slogan used in Charlottesville was chosen by the organizers, it was NOT agreed to by everyone on the "right". Personally I'm a constitutionalist, I don't like the right pissing on it or the left shitting on it. Today this country is not operating anywhere close to what the founders intended. Their intent was a very limited central government and through the failure of the constitutional checks and balances, we find ourselves where we are today. Personally I blame the States for not exerting their constitutional authority and failing to reign in the leviathan know as the feds. How do you like our post constitutional America?


.

 

[The Original Tree]

You can't just remove a
Public statue without Due Process.

You cannot deprive a private or public group of property without due process.

And by Due Process, that means some kind of vote and public hearing needs to be conducted first.

Why is that so hard to understand?


People have a right to erect or or take down as a group community, public or private anything they want as long as they abide by the law when doing so.

You can't just arbitrarily take down a statue in the dead of night.

Take them down...I don't give a Fuck but follow our laws and jump through the hoops of due process doing it. If it is a Public Statue, the Public needs to vote to take it down since they were levied with taxes to erect it.

If it's a National Monument, there needs to be a National vote on such a monument to take it down as it was erected with Federal Funds.

That's where I object. That and the fact that most of the idiots calling for this don't know what the Hell they are doing and most of this is nothing but a political dog and pony show dreamed
Up by The Democrat Party as a wedge issue for 2018.

So quit being Fascists. Follow our laws, and if you lose STFU and go home.

 

[monkeytrots]

How funny is it to hear rightwing bigots of various stripes demanding their constitutional right to oppose constitutional rights?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right here is the problem, everyone who disagrees with the left is a bigot, racist or what ever, they have to be demonized and dehumanized to justify the hate coming form the left, while they attempt to claim some moral high ground. The reality is this poster and many others are nothing but Alinksy acolytes who wish to destroy the very fabric of the country.


.

I referred to the rightwingers who are bigots, not the ones who are not.

No need to start back peddling now, you folks have called anyone who wants our immigration laws enforced or want to properly vet people coming into the country, bigots and racist. Hell I was called a nazi sympathizer by a regressive and a fagot by a nazi all in the same evening, just for standing up for the right to speech for all Americans and condemning the veto of rights by a mob.


.

Actually, hate speech is protected by the First Ammendment.

Nazi-ism and Communism are both HARD LEFT FASCIST philosophies - where STATE control is worshipped, and Individual liberty is CONTINUALLY and Onerously restricted and destroyed.

All Conservatives are CLASSICAL LIBERALS - the antifa and hard-left are the fascists of our current age. Irony there - a group calling itself 'antifa' are the worst fascists in our Country today.

Amazing that Anyone would say "Our laws should determine "hate speech" - and prosecuted accordingly. "Hate speech" is much like pornography - most of us know it when we see or hear it."

Those that DO NOT understand that such laws would be dangerously illegal - well, take a stroll through a well written HARD LEFT newspaper opinion piece from the LA TIMES, of all places. One doesn't have to be 'conservative' or 'liberal' to understand basics - but apparently one can not be a 'leftist' and be able to understand.

This LA TIMES writer gets it right.

Actually, hate speech is protected

By Ken White Los Angeles Times

Free speech and its limitations are on Americans’ minds. In the past year we’ve seen Nazis and white supremacists rally in our cities, angry protesters chase provocateurs off of college campuses, a comedian wield a bloody effigy of the president’s severed head, and slurs and overt racial animus made a staple of political discourse. Controversial speech has people talking about what restrictions, if any, society can enforce on words we despise.

That inquiry isn’t inherently bad. It’s good for citizens to want to learn more about the contours of our constitutional rights. The dilemma is that the public debate about free speech relies on useless cliches, not on accurate information about the law.

Here are some of the most popular misleading slogans:
(article continues - recommended reading - anyone with at least a fifth grade education (old school, that is) can easily read and understand these basics.)

 

[Slade3200]

Well you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?

Yes...white racists are bad...I don't notice you calling out the black racists..the ones who actually matter now......white racists are tiny in number, made only important by the left wing media who want to use them to smear Trump.....how about the blacks on colleges who want segregated dorms? Have a problem with that? The real problem with racism now is coming from the democrat party and their groups....la raza..hispanic racists, black lives matter, black racists....they are embraced by the democrats and they are hard core racists......

If you don't like racism, call all racism out....

See there you go, you suffer from the same pathetic unawareness that Trump does.... "Yes...white racists are bad... But..."

You don't say "but the left..." you put a PERIOD after White Racists are bad.

No...you suffer from "white racists are the only problem"....the ones who have been murdering police officers and violently attacking peaceful protestors for close to 2 years.....you ignore.

Whats wrong with you man... What have I ever said to imply that white racists are the ONLY problem? I'm just pointing our the importance of make a strong statement denouncing them and not doing the quick pivot back to the left like you and our leader do. There are plenty of problems with ANTIFA and BLM and the Left and the Right. We can talk about those when the time is right. Talking about them when the White Racists are making a push only fuels their cause.

In other words, any mention of ANTIFA and BLM is "not fair." Sorry, but including them in the discussion is the essence of fair.

I think i'm about done talking to you. You possess the maturity of a 9 year old and take most of everything that I say completely out of context. It is a waste of time to continuously reexplain myself or correct the distorted interpretations of what you think i'm saying. Comeback after you've learned to grow up.

 

[Slade3200]

You can't just remove a
Public statue without Due Process.

You cannot deprive a private or public group of property without due process.

And by Due Process, that means some kind of vote and public hearing needs to be conducted first.

Why is that so hard to understand?


People have a right to erect or or take down as a group community, public or private anything they want as long as they abide by the law when doing so.

You can't just arbitrarily take down a statue in the dead of night.

Take them down...I don't give a Fuck but follow our laws and jump through the hoops of due process doing it. If it is a Public Statue, the Public needs to vote to take it down since they were levied with taxes tonerect it.

If it's a National Monument, there needs to be a National vote on such a monument to take it down as it was erected with Federal Funds.

That's where I object. That and the fact that most of the idiots calling for this don't know what the Hell they are doing and most of this is nothing but a political dog and pony show dreamed
Up by The Democrat Party as a wedge issue for 2018.

So quit being Fascists. Follow our laws, and if you lose STFU and go home.

Whats your deal man? I've only advocated for due process and have not suggested otherwise.

 

[monkeytrots]

Ken White's closing statement in above article - well worth heeding.

Familiarity with our rights and how they work is a civic obligation.

 

[OKTexas]

As many other fellow posters, I too face that dilemma as to whether fully allow KKK members, WS and neo-Nazis to openly spew their hatred or opt to stop their Constitution-allowed speech.

It is a tough conundrum. The problem rests with how that hate speech manages to recruit gullible and somewhat ignorant young people to join in that hate-filled ideology.

The best comparison I can make is whether we would opt to STOP radical Muslims to recruit disenfranchised young people to become terrorists for a dubious cause....After all, we sometime monitor what may go on in a Mosque to intervene if that environment is spewing hate filled and violent behaviors......

We all must make a choice regarding our love of free expression, and our desire to be safe from the spreading of more hatred.

The First Amendment exists to protect unpopular speech, as popular speech obviously needs no such protections. Regarding your comparison to Muslim terrorist recruitment, that's a little different. Muslims terrorists are actually harming and killing people. If there is ample evidence that someone is planning an attack that isn't free speech. However, someone just being affiliated with or conversing with a radical element shouldn't necessarily be illegal. With the exception of that tard in Charlottesville with the car, the KKK and neo-Nazis and those other white supremacists jagoffs haven't done lynchings and shit like that in decades. They're basically neutered organizations, who quite frankly, if everyone would simply ignore and stop confronting and giving them all of this media coverage would go back into the holes they crawled out of.

Are you one of the dumbasses who ignores that Trump is emboldening and encouraging white nationalist racists with his words and dog whistles? Sounds like it...

I wonder why it only regressive who hear these dog whistles? BOW WOW LMAO


.

 

[whitehall]

Look up the 1989 Supreme Court decision "Texas vs. Johnson" in favor of "Young Communists" that affirmed their 1st Amendment right desecrate the flag in spite of laws that prohibited it in 48 states.. From what I can recall nobody on the right smashed windows or torched cars at the time. You gotta scratch your head when Charlottesville is the top story when a freaking Sanders democrat tried to murder an entire republican baseball team barely two months ago.

 

[The Original Tree]

Why should he be "phased' by a bigoted prejudiced and hateful false image of him.

He should ignore it.

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Racists have a right to free speech - but they need to once again be subdued and pushed back into their peckerwood holes.

‘MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN’

It is absolutely incredible what is happening in this country. I never thought we would ever see magazine covers like that about our POTUS. He seems unphased... It really is unbelievable

 

[The Original Tree]

Exactly because 2018. Trying to kill half The Republican Party and talking about it doesn't help The Left get back in power.

Look up the 1989 Supreme Court decision "Texas vs. Johnson" in favor of "Young Communists" that affirmed their 1st Amendment right desecrate the flag in spite of laws that prohibited it in 48 states.. From what I can recall nobody on the right smashed windows or torched cars at the time. You gotta scratch your head when Charlottesville is the top story when a freaking Sanders democrat tried to murder an entire republican baseball team barely two months ago.