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Bingo.No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.
Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.
Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.
One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.
It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.
I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.
I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.
Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.Bingo.No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.
Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.
Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.
One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.
The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.
The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.
Yeah, the internet may be as harmful as it is helpful. Talk about a mixed blessing.Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.Bingo.No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.
Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.
Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.
One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.
The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.
The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.
There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.Yeah, the internet may be as harmful as it is helpful. Talk about a mixed blessing.Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.Bingo.No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.
Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.
Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.
One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.
The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.
The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.
These people know they're hated, and that just makes them band together more, it makes them recruit more, it convinces them even more that they have "The Truth" on their side. I think that ignoring them is far more constructive than screaming at them.
There's another thing at play here, though: There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.
.
I'm not asking you to act like a secretary. I'm asking you to act like a man and back up what you say. But when I ask direct questions you deflect and give non answers....Are you ever going to get around to answering my question. You seem pretty full of insults and finger point but lacking in substance and productive ideas. So try againHow do you do that? Take me through the processThrow all the social crap our of the schools and concentrate on academics. Kids have moms and dads and extended family to address the social stuff.
.
Take yourself on a trip thru history and see what kinds of school systems made us the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Where discipline and personal accountability were taught and no kid would ever consider attacking a teacher. You can trace the drastic decline in our education system to the removal of discipline. Just install that template in current schools. And don't throw around any crap about segregation, that is past, it's the principles that are important.
.
You've gotten all the answer you're going to get, I'm not you damn secretary.
.
So you want schools to teach more accurate history but you don't want to spend any money and you don't know how to do it. Your goal is for people to understand that black people owned slaves in the civil war era because then they wouldn't want to take down conferderate statues.... did I get that right? Because that's what you've told me so far. Can you see why it's difficult to take you seriously?
Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.Bingo.No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.
Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.
Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.
One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.
The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.
The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.
There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.Yeah, the internet may be as harmful as it is helpful. Talk about a mixed blessing.Molly Ball pointed out on Washington Week Friday that the internet has given these hate groups a place to gather where their ideas are accepted by others and they can reach a larger audience than in the pre-internet days. She believes it is a big factor in the rise in popularity of these groups currently.Bingo.No conundrum at all. Let people speak. If we can't beat people in the arena of ideas, we don't deserve to.
Freedom of expression is about speech we DON'T like, not speech we DO like.
.
Not to mention the fact that repugnant scum like white supremacists do more to marginalize themselves by speaking their beliefs freely and loudly than anything else could ever do. Driving them into hiding does nothing to change their minds, and only romanticizes them in the eyes of the dimwits who would be their primary recruiting field.
One fights disgusting ideas through free speech and education, not through repression.
The beauty of freedom of expression - well, one of them - is that it points out the lunatics, loud and clear. I want to know who they are, where they are, what they are thinking and (perhaps most importantly) who agrees with them.
The Regressives think that shutting people up will change minds. That's how an illiberal leftist authoritarian thinks, and it's both narcissistic and naive.
.
I think all internet platforms that allow it need to think soberly and carefully about what they are providing.
The counter protesters yesterday in Boston caused the free speech speakers to leave before they all spoke their piece, according to one news article I read. There was no violence against the few dozen rally attendees, but the 15,000 people who didn't like their views seemed to have a cooling effect on their agenda. Maybe it got too noisy or the hate groups felt intimidated? Maybe they'll think about what intimidation feels like....that it doesn't feel so good? Not likely, but one can always hope.
These people know they're hated, and that just makes them band together more, it makes them recruit more, it convinces them even more that they have "The Truth" on their side. I think that ignoring them is far more constructive than screaming at them.
There's another thing at play here, though: There are people on the Left who know this, but a higher priority is to conflate the Nazi idiots with all things Trump, all things GOP, all things conservative. How cynical is that? Keeping racial tensions alive and well for political advantage.
.
.
I don't doubt it, Mac. Politics is so nasty. I really don't think people of reason will believe that all Republicans or conservatives are racist. We know better from daily experience. However, it sure does create a lot of noise.
No I don't think it's sad. I think traditions are carried on and celebrated. Heritage expands through time and we all get closer to a more unified HUMAN race. Preserve history and tradition, but don't start war over bloodlines, that's useless.Why is heritage so important to you? My fathers side is English and Scottish and my mothers side is potuguise Spanish and Sicilian. That think that is awesome, I can relate to people from all those countriesWell you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
All sides have killed millions.
Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"
Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.
But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.
Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?
What about multiculturalism which will obviously eradicate both Jews, and Whites?
The fact that the love hormone Oxytocin causes racism, morality, generosity, cuddles, love, trust, and honesty.
Then, no I don't think most racists are bad people, I think racists are usually passionate.
Your side seems to be the cold blooded side, who doesn't care about their heritage.
So, you don't think it's sad if Scottish, English, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese heritages disappear?
Good for youIt's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.
I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.
I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.
I condone the violent left who have complete disregard for the law
-Geaux
I get your philosophy and that's fine and dandy but now give me practical application... how do you make it happen? You plan on sending a letter to all the schools and then poof it magically happens? Explain how you roll it out....I'm not asking you to act like a secretary. I'm asking you to act like a man and back up what you say. But when I ask direct questions you deflect and give non answers....Are you ever going to get around to answering my question. You seem pretty full of insults and finger point but lacking in substance and productive ideas. So try againHow do you do that? Take me through the process
Take yourself on a trip thru history and see what kinds of school systems made us the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Where discipline and personal accountability were taught and no kid would ever consider attacking a teacher. You can trace the drastic decline in our education system to the removal of discipline. Just install that template in current schools. And don't throw around any crap about segregation, that is past, it's the principles that are important.
.
You've gotten all the answer you're going to get, I'm not you damn secretary.
.
So you want schools to teach more accurate history but you don't want to spend any money and you don't know how to do it. Your goal is for people to understand that black people owned slaves in the civil war era because then they wouldn't want to take down conferderate statues.... did I get that right? Because that's what you've told me so far. Can you see why it's difficult to take you seriously?
Maybe you should take a remedial reading class. I said to get back to the basics and truth, throw out the leftist PC and social justice agenda and enforce discipline. It doesn't cost a damn dime.
.
I get your philosophy and that's fine and dandy but now give me practical application... how do you make it happen? You plan on sending a letter to all the schools and then poof it magically happens? Explain how you roll it out....I'm not asking you to act like a secretary. I'm asking you to act like a man and back up what you say. But when I ask direct questions you deflect and give non answers....Are you ever going to get around to answering my question. You seem pretty full of insults and finger point but lacking in substance and productive ideas. So try againTake yourself on a trip thru history and see what kinds of school systems made us the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Where discipline and personal accountability were taught and no kid would ever consider attacking a teacher. You can trace the drastic decline in our education system to the removal of discipline. Just install that template in current schools. And don't throw around any crap about segregation, that is past, it's the principles that are important.
.
You've gotten all the answer you're going to get, I'm not you damn secretary.
.
So you want schools to teach more accurate history but you don't want to spend any money and you don't know how to do it. Your goal is for people to understand that black people owned slaves in the civil war era because then they wouldn't want to take down conferderate statues.... did I get that right? Because that's what you've told me so far. Can you see why it's difficult to take you seriously?
Maybe you should take a remedial reading class. I said to get back to the basics and truth, throw out the leftist PC and social justice agenda and enforce discipline. It doesn't cost a damn dime.
.
Democrats have been losing power like crazy
Loss of power by the democrats seems to be parallel with the growth of openly displayed racism and bigotry......Funny the way that works.
Not really. You guys go nuts and tend to reveal yourself when you lose power
reveal yourself when you lose power
"Lose power"???................My electricity works just fine.......LOL
Unlike you who wants to sensor free speech.
That "conclusion" you must have gotten out of your fat ass after a few grunts...LOL
Unlike you who wants to sensor free speech.
That "conclusion" you must have gotten out of your fat ass after a few grunts...LOL
Why is heritage so important to you? My fathers side is English and Scottish and my mothers side is potuguise Spanish and Sicilian. That think that is awesome, I can relate to people from all those countriesWell you had Nazi's chanting about eradicating Jews from our country just last weekend and you have the KKK and other groups fighting for the right to segregate and live in communities and run businesses that only include whites. You don't find that as reprehensible?I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.
All sides have killed millions.
Furthermore much of what is described as 'White Supremacist" was merely just "Greed"
Slavery for example was about greed, it was a business for goodness sake.
But, the elites have brainwashed the idiotic masses into thinking slavery is White Supremacist.
Oh really? When was the last time that a true White Supremacist wanted to import Blacks into his own backyard like Slave-masters did?
What about multiculturalism which will obviously eradicate both Jews, and Whites?
The fact that the love hormone Oxytocin causes racism, morality, generosity, cuddles, love, trust, and honesty.
Then, no I don't think most racists are bad people, I think racists are usually passionate.
Your side seems to be the cold blooded side, who doesn't care about their heritage.
So, you don't think it's sad if Scottish, English, Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese heritages disappear?
